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#1112508 - 05/12/11 03:38 AM Contracts
eshaw Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 593
Loc: Iowa
I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on whether they agree or disagree with breeder contracts. I feel that if I purchase a glider I should have ALL say as to what happens to the glider. If I want to rehome it or whatever it's my perogative. I understand that if a glider is purchased for a pet and the person starts breeding it, that could be a problem. So lets hear it, why do you like or dislike a contract.

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#1112513 - 05/12/11 04:24 AM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
MissSarah Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 3039
Loc: Bristol, Va
I know its not a popular point of view, but I agree with you. Once you accept money for a joey/glider, its no longer yours. Your sending out into the world and what happens to it from your doorstep on is out of your hands.
Mind you, it would be nice for future owners to send pics/updates, but I don't think "check ins" should be required. Its not your animal anymore.

To require things like that is kind of like having your cake and eating it too. You get paid, yet you still have control of the situation.

:shrug: That's just my opinion though.
_________________________
Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)


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#1112523 - 05/12/11 05:52 AM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
WintersSong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 2294
Loc: NY
My personal thoughts are.. if you disagree with a breeders contract, don't adopt from that breeder. There are many breeders out there, and not all require contracts.


That said, I think that the contracts are fantastic. I feel that they offer some protection to the glider. Not a whole lot of protection, but.. I think it may help keep at least few from ending up on Craigslist.
_________________________
~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin

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#1112582 - 05/12/11 08:13 AM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2529
Loc: Kentucky
We do the best we can to screen potential homes, but ultimately contracts are to protect our babies, no matter who adopts them. I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask that a glider I've adopted out is returned to me in case "life happens". We aren't talking about a bicycle or other inanimate object that is being sold - we are talking about a living, breathing precious creature that we raised and sent off to be loved and well-cared for in it's hopefully forever home. If my babies can't be cared for in the way you promised, then I want them back, or at least to have some input into a new home.

Like was mentioned above, if you don't agree, you have the option to just go with a breeder where you pay for your "product" take your glider and go.
_________________________
~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Athena/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Gypsy/Ramon/Paloma
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon

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#1112585 - 05/12/11 08:29 AM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3570
Loc: Kansas City, MO
I have thought about this a lot I had someone get uncomfortable about signing one awhile ago and I tried to see it from her point of view and I get it. But at the same time my reasons for supporting it are this.
1. Sugar gliders don't need the bare minimum and more often then not when a glider is rehomed, and rehomed. They land is a 2 foot cage eating cat food running on rat wheels. Dying early deaths and never living to the full.

Think about this.. What if you were a bird breeder and bred large birds that lived 20-50 or more years. Could you imagine all the homes that bird could go through if the breeder did keep track?

All of my non glider animals are on contrats. One from Lexie's rescue group and then the cats were both adopted at an animal shelter. They agree yes it is YOUR pet but I am taking responsibilty for placing this animal in your home by investing intrest for its whole life. I tell any adopters that in my head that BABY is mine came from my loving home and I'm just "loaning" them out.

And again, if you don't like it don't sign the contract. smile
_________________________
~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*

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#1112595 - 05/12/11 09:03 AM Re: Contracts [Re: Laurens_Babies]
SugarCrazy Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/11/10
Posts: 614
Loc: Central Illinois
I agree with contracts. I believe they try to ensure that the person purchasing the glider has done their homework and knows what consists of "good care" for this little living breathing being they are taking into their home. My family has adopted retired racing greyhounds (yes on contract). As was mentioned before, I am just borrowing this animal (for the rest of it's life) from the original owner. And if you think about it, aren't we all just "borrowing" life from our original owner... God... and we have a contract with Him. Everything that we have, see, or do is His for us to do the best with it. And that includes these precious little animals.
_________________________
Tracy
Married to my best friend for 24 years
We have 5 skin kids, 2 with spouses, 4 PERFECT GrandSkins
Owned by 2 cats
Playmate to 5 dogs
Slave to 16 suggies + joeys now and then
www.garlandfunnyfarm.weebly.com

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#1112607 - 05/12/11 09:25 AM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
Teresa56 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 423
Loc: Florida
I went thru the contract thing when I wanted to adopt a kitten.So many places wanted me to sign that I would not have them declawed-- I knew as soon as they were old enough to be fixed I would do that and have them declawed at the same time. I do not like to lie so I searched until I found one I could adopt without that clause in the contract. I believe if you buy a animal it is yours and you should be able to do what you want with it.As a breeder I can understand your desire to control what happens to a animal you sell but who's to say if someone really lives up to the contract or not even if it is signed?
_________________________
Mom to JayP
Owned by 2 :kitty:

Slave to 2 colonies
Colony #1= Trio
Skeeter :grey: and MissHarmony :wfb: and Miss Sanora :wfb:

Colony # 2 pair
Flora :rtmo: and her huney Freddy :grey:


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#1112610 - 05/12/11 09:32 AM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
kjgoulet Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 02/12/11
Posts: 1516
Loc: North Dakota
I can understand both views and why or why not people like contracts.

I personally think it's a great idea! If I were to ever breed I'd want to know that if my baby can't stay in their home for some reason, that they could come back to me smile

There's breeders who don't use them and there's those that do. Personally I'd only breed for friends and family, once everyone has their gliders I'd be done but even then I'd make them sign a contract to return the glider should something happen. I'd probably even go as far as to pay for the glider lol! It shows the care that these breeders have for the joeys even after they leave.

I don't think "check-ins" are necessary but out of common courtesty the buyer should update the breeder once in a while on how the glider is doing. They raised that joey, created that joey for you, the least you could do it sign a contract and let them know how the glider is doing. It would put a smile on my face to hear how great the joey/glider has it smile

I have my 5 and I update their previous mom often, and I'll do the same with the 2 I'm getting in a week. They loved their babies but things didn't work out right for them and they're trusting me with these gliders. It's a privilege to be owned by these guys and to have the opportunity to do so, I think a contract and an update once in a while is worth that thumb
_________________________
Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com

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#1112619 - 05/12/11 09:56 AM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
Norpa
Unregistered


I don't mind contracts as long as they're not overly ridiculous. You can't force someone to update you on the gliders but I understand it would be nice for them to do it. If they love the gliders they should be more than happy to send the breeder pictures and updates on how the baby(ies) is/are doing. I also understand the "If you can no longer care for the Glider you must return the Glider to me", that is just a good breeder there. Most breeders of all different kinds of animals have this in contract. It's to protect the animal and I think it's a good idea. And the neutering if it's a pet only so they don't just breed them with whoever and what ever like a mill.

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#1112621 - 05/12/11 10:01 AM Re: Contracts [Re: Teresa56]
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2529
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Teresa56
I went thru the contract thing when I wanted to adopt a kitten.So many places wanted me to sign that I would not have them declawed-- I knew as soon as they were old enough to be fixed I would do that and have them declawed at the same time. As a breeder I can understand your desire to control what happens to a animal you sell but who's to say if someone really lives up to the contract or not even if it is signed?
This is a whole 'nother issue because "declawing" is actually amputation of the first digit of a cat's toes. Claws are part of what makes a cat a cat. I signed a no-declawing contract from the breeder my purebred Birman came from, and will honor that no matter how many mattresses or chairs are shredded. If you don't want to deal with that, or your furniture is more important, find an animal more suited to your home.

Contracts are not really about control, they are about doing what we can to ensure that our babies have the life they deserve, as was promised when we screen and accept potential adopters. I don't really care if you send me pictures or updates ... that would be nice, but not essential. Yes, it is now your pet, and as long as things are going well, all is good! I DO care if circumstances change and my baby... yes the one I helped raise and watch grow ... can't be cared for as you promised.

We are all entitled to our opinions on this, but just remember you always have the option to not sign the contract and look elsewhere. The breeder is screening the new home, but the new home should also be screening the breeder. If you don't agree, keep looking!
_________________________
~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Athena/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Gypsy/Ramon/Paloma
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon

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#1112623 - 05/12/11 10:12 AM Re: Contracts [Re: nancy1202]
Norpa
Unregistered


Just to let you know, if you don't already. They sell caps for kitties nails, totally harmless and come off with time or if you clip their nails it'll come off then too. Doesn't hurt them, totally safe and it keeps your furniture safe. laugh A family friend did this for their cats since they got new furniture and didn't want to declaw them.

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#1112632 - 05/12/11 10:37 AM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
SGQ Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 12/25/10
Posts: 524
Loc: Grand Junction, Colorado
I signed a contract for my boy Zinger. And I have to say I was rather happy to do so.

When I told my husband he raised an eyebrow, but said nothing. My MIL and sister in law were both like "You did WHAT?!" lol~

My thoughts are this... I wish I had known about the option of contracts much sooner. I actually gave 2 of my joeys to a family member a few years back. Said family member was rather impressive with their knowledge and care... A few years down the road one died from an accident. They kept the remaining boy alone.. and then eventually his mom ended up with him. I just spoke with her perhaps a month previous to her giving this glider away to who knows who. She never mentioned any problems or anything.

So I am left to wonder~ now that said joey was in my home, cousins home, cousins mom's home.. and now someone else's home.. Kept alone for half his life.. What kind of condition he is in right now. He was born in my home, cared for and healthy and very loved.. and now~ and now who knows!

I'm not happy with that. Some rescue home may end up with him or he may end up with someone who doesn't know anything about their care..

A contract protects the glider~ who by the way cannot speak for themselves. If your animals are a part of your family like mine are a part of our family~ you want that safety net for your glider.

If something happens down the road and I can't keep my gliders (gawd forbid) ~then I also have that option of getting in touch with the breeder and having somewhere safe for my gliders to go, rather than having to put an ad on craigslist.. or trust another family member(none of my family has quite the interest that I do in gliders)..


The contract is for the glider. I tell you what, I took a look at Suggiemom 1980/Connie's contract .. I LOVE it! It is very thorough. She has taken in rescues in awful shape, some die in her hands due to the horrible care they had before her, some are nursed back to health... She has seen first hand (as have other rescue homes) what can happen to gliders~ so people want to ensure as much as they can that these animals are cared for.

The average person knows how to care for a dog or cat, this is not so for gliders.

And the breeder I got my boy from with a contract~ she never demanded pictures or updates. I give them willingly and excitedly~ I am more than happy for her to see how he is doing and for her to be a part of that.
_________________________
~~Chrystal~~
My beautiful pair~

Zinger (aka:Evan) :wfb:
Karma (aka:Ivy) :grey:

:rbridge: Thor 12/24/10
heart Twinkie 11/26/11

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#1112649 - 05/12/11 11:43 AM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
tammyangel Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 2493
Loc: Missouri
Contracts aren't there to dictate how you care for the gliders. We breeders have them as ways of being able to protect our babies a little bit better. I have contracts on any joey that leaves my home and have found it to be a good thing. Since those who aren't willing to sign it seem to only want to barely care for my babies. Most want to feed the cheapest diet out there .They also when rehoming them most of them end up in homes with no experience .Gliders don't have a voice unless we talk for them and try and protect them from being placed in 5 to 10 homes in their life time.Its sad just how many do not want to give a proper diet ,socialize with their gliders, and give proper vet care when needed. They figure they purchased them and they are just property. As someone said there are alot of breeders who do not use contracts .If you go to one who has one than look for another if you do not want to sign their contract.
And is it so hard to keep in touch with that breeder sending pictures showing how well you and your new babies are doing its not.Its always a pleasure when those getting joeys from you keep in touch you see how they progress and thrive. And life does happen and some times we have to take gliders back. But is it better to allow the babies you love go back to their breeder or to someone who may or may not give those babies a great home.
_________________________
Having Faith and Hope that some day soon.That all the world will come to see that all of gods babies deserve love and affection.

gangel My little three precious angels :rbridge:


http://suggieshack.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=login

Mom to some really spoiled little ones.

:rtmo:
:leu:
:grey:



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#1112672 - 05/12/11 12:48 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
Megs
Unregistered


If we want to talk about declawing.. What about neuters? You're taking away a part of the male glider's anatomy.
Just because it's a different location of the body doesn't make it any different as a whole.

Back on topic.

In one sense I don't agree with contracts.
When you buy a car, if you have to make payments, and you stop making payments, the car is taken from you. Something happens, you're responsible.
If the vehicle is paid for in full, have at it. Do with it as you please.
In a sense I KINDA SORTA see it this way with gliders.


HOWEVER... Gliders are animals and deserve respect and dignity just like us humans. They simply cannot speak for themselves so breeders set out contracts to help ensure those gliders have a voice and are kept in prime conditions.

With THAT, I agree with contracts, BUT...

Let me just say... Last year I found a woman on CL who had several gliders and needed them in good homes. She asked me a zillion and one questions and was comfortable in letting me have them. I kept some; I surely couldn't keep all 30. shakehead

She had WFs, leus, white mo's, plats, etc, so I knew there had to be lineage or something somewhere. Long story short, after a LOT of digging, I located the breeders.

I took a MAJOR risk in losing my babies due to contracts that most definitely would have existed. And they did. But I felt I had to contact them.

Long story short, without details, I still have my babies, regardless of those contracts.

My heart would be torn to bits if the breeders wanted their gliders back because of a contract, paying no mind to the home I'm offering them.

Because they took these things into consideration and let the gliders remain in my home, I feel they deserve props.

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#1112680 - 05/12/11 01:04 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
I have a contract to protect my suggies as best I can. As Tammy said, they have no voice and many do get rehomed without notice. I know of a glider who was sold as pet only and four homes later, she was a breeding female. Thankfully, that owner contacted the original breeder and kept her posted. The original purchaser did not.

When I rehomed my very first rescues, I had no contract. I trusted too easily. The woman lied to me and ended up giving my babies to a pet shop. Thank God, I found them and they were willing to let me have them back. Legally, I had no leg to stand on. Had they not wanted to give them back, there was nothing I could do.

Yes, my contract is extensive. My babies are worth it. If someone reads my contract and doesn't want to sign it, they don't get my babies. Period. Anyone who has no problem with signing it, I feel better about them caring for my babes properly.

I want to add, it's not just about the contract. The whole Adoption Process is in three parts.
1. Answering my questionnaire. This lets me know what areas they may need help with.
2. The application, including references. Yes, I check references.
3. Finally, the contract.

I do all of this, plus email and talk to the potential adoptive parent. I don't feel badly for doing this. I am their protector. These aren't toys I'm selling/rehoming. These are living, breathing creatures and I will protect them to the best of my ability. Am I overprotective? Could be. I'm sure some think so. But what I'm protecting, is too precious, to not be the way I am. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't do my best.

We want to believe that people can be trusted 100%. That life stays status quo. That everything is perfect. Sadly, it isn't.

Megs, you showed why I have a contract. I don't want my babies to end up on craigslist, or worse. Props to YOU, for doing the right thing. As those breeders proved, they just want the best homes for their babies. That's all I want. A contract doesn't automatically mean the gliders must go back to the original breeder. If someone can't keep one of my babies, no matter the reason, if I can't take the glider back, I will help find a good home for them.

I know when they leave my home, they are no longer legally mine. Tell my heart that. I remember every glider that has left my home to go to a new family. I think of them often. They may not be legally mine anymore, but they'll always be my babies. And they're always welcome back into my home, no explanations asked.
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#1112683 - 05/12/11 01:08 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
Berg Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 490
Loc: Champaign Co., Illinois
All four of our gliders were obtained without a contract. Two were from a commercial breeder, and two were rehomes. The person who had these two was looking for a good home because she had acquired four cats over the years.

I don't have a problem periodically updating a breeder on the gliders I obtained from them, but it should not be a requirement. We periodically sent updates and photos of our rehomed gliders to their previous owner because we wanted her to know they were OK. Giving them up was very difficult for her - she had them for 7 years.

I consider the "if you can't take care of them return them to me" clause to be a "service" to the new owner. If circumstances change for someone and they can longer take care of the glider, they don't have to go through the trouble of finding a new owner - just contact the breeder. The problem arises if the owner wants to sell the glider to try and recoup costs. However, I think I've read where some breeders will even pay something to get a glider back.

Even local animal shelters have contracts and agreements. I agree with everyone else, though - if you don't like what the contract says then don't sign it and find someone else. Nobody is forcing you to sign it.
_________________________
-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog

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#1112687 - 05/12/11 01:15 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
FuzzierThanMost Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Rhode Island
preventing more joeys is much different from destroying a cats being for no other reason than being lazy.
_________________________
~Ella~

:grey: Fuzz LightYear
:grey: Fuzzméralda
:grey: The Little Furmaid
:grey: Furora
:grey: Furcules
:grey: Fuzz Charming

Kitties, Faith and KitKat

Doggy, Dingo

And the person who puts up with it all, Christopher<3 <3 <3

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#1112688 - 05/12/11 01:17 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
MissSarah Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 3039
Loc: Bristol, Va
I'm so straddling the fence on this. frown

I completely agree and understand the part saying if they can no longer provide a home for the glider it come back to the original owner. But then again, you're purposely breeding and selling animals with the full knowledge that Craigslist and various rescue homes are filled with unwanted gliders.

You're accepting money (and in the case of "colored" gliders, a pretty good chunk) for these animals that you're so quick to say are not property or products. This confuses me more than a little.

HOWEVER, if I were to have to rehome one of my gliders, I would want to know where they are at all times. I still periodically text the girl who took Murdoc to get an update on him. Sadly, even though I've told her it isn't a good idea, I think she plans to breed him. I know she already breeds chinchillas and told me she has over 30. I chalk it up to a lesson learned. There's not a day that goes by that I wish I'd had a contract on Doc. Anyone can look good on paper, but I understand wanting a safety net.

I straddle the fence on lots of topics. This is one of many. >.< And like I've stated before, this is only my opinion.

Edited to add: I personally would have no problem signing a contract, filling out a questionaire, giving a blood sample. Whatever you'd like. These are just general statements I'm making.


Edited by MissSarah (05/12/11 01:26 PM)
_________________________
Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)


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#1112691 - 05/12/11 01:32 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
Kayla Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 638
Loc: Mohave, AZ
Connie, Would you be willing to share your contract with me?

I have one that I currently use, but still look at other ones incase I see something I should add or reword...

The first pair of gliders I adopted out, I did not use a contract.
I met with the guy several times, he came to my house once a week for about 4 weeks. I TRUSTED him. He built them a huge pvc pipe cage, bought them everything, asked questions (my favorite smile!!). He updated me often for the first few weeks and then stopped. A friend of mine saw an ad up on hoobly that looked too familiar to the situation. I called the guy & he said he was not selling the babies. I told him that if he couldnt take care of them I would buy them off of him & would rather them go to me thn someone else, but he insured me he was not selling them... BUT i knew he was. I had a friend of mine email him as if she was interested in the gliders, he didnt ask a single question to her, just asked where to meet. So 2 of my friends, my boyfriend, & I got into the car to go to the meeting place. My 2 friends stood outside & waited while my boyfriend & I watched from the car. As soon as I was sure it was the same guy I approached him & he looked shocked & almost wanted to cry. He said he couldnt tell me over the phone... He had lost one of his jobs & didnt have time for them anymore. After a half hr of talking he let me have my babies back. I was sooo thankful, they were my first joeys, and were mine again. I offered to meet him 3 days later for lunch & to work out any money situation ( I offered to give him some of what he put into them ). I got a text 2 days later saying he didnt want to meet, he sold their cage & wheel & wanted me to send him a check. YEAH RIGHT. I told him I would meet him to exchange money... I have never heard from him since & will always have potential buyers sign a contract for my babies. No matter how much I trust them.
_________________________
Gizmo & Trinket
Remy, Bolt & Luna
Violet, Lavender & Indigo
Amaretto & Bailey
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo: :plat: :leu:

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#1112692 - 05/12/11 01:32 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
ciara_lynn Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 728
Loc: Southern MN, USA
After reading EVERY single reply on here so far, I still don't mind that I signed a contract for my 3 I received from a breeder. She doesn't require periodic updates, but I do just because I want to.

It's not hard to attach some pics to an email and write a couple sentences on how they are all doing! Plus I love knowing that if life ever happens and can no longer care for them, they have a great home to go back to. Yes they do charge an outrageous price on them if they don't want to consider them "property". But I figured that's a way of covering their costs of raising and spending time with your little joey you are receiving to be so friendly to begin with. Plus it helps sway those away that aren't fully committed to taking in and caring for a glider.

There is one thing that I don't agree with though is the breeder getting the glider back, then selling it again to someone else, even for discounted price. (This would be our Joanie and Chachi) We've had such a difficult time trying to get them to trust us and bond to us, had them for a year and a half now and still are not bonded. Since I don't know the previous owner before the breeder got them back, I'm not sure what happened to these two before we got them.
_________________________
Ciara
Loved by:
My boyfriend Jeff (jeffrey1881)
Zeke my 4 yr old cat
:wfb: :grey:
Joanie - Chachi - Baby
Ruger - Mieshka - Comfrey

:rbridge:
Captain, Morgan, and Spaz

www.ciarajessen.com (Graphic Design Work)
www.fuzzielovers.weebly.com (Fuzzie Lovers - Sugar Gliders Site)

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#1112706 - 05/12/11 01:59 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
sphynxie Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 913
Loc: Casper, Wyoming
I do not mind a contract, but I will not sign one that is super ridiculious. (in my opinion) I will not adopt from animal rescues that have a super long ridiclious adoption process, contract and fee. If I am going to spend that much time, energy, and effort to jumping through their hoops, I will just go buy a puppy. I think that some want too much control. That being said I bet Tbull is SICK of me because I send her a text or email or phone call nearly every day because I am so in love with my babies, and she answers my millions of questions without hesitating. That I think is a good breeder. I DID sign a contract with Cully and Diamond. The ones I got from C.C. there was no contract, she did send me a copy of her contract but it was in the papers that came with the gliders. I still try and update her as well, although most of my last pms are unread I still send them.
_________________________
Melonie

:grey: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :plat: :cream:


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#1112725 - 05/12/11 02:24 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
MissSarah Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 3039
Loc: Bristol, Va
I agree with ya, Sphynxie. I think you stated my point with a lot less words. lol

Yes, a fee does cover the money/care spent on them, but I don't think anyone should be reimbursed for time spent with the glider. lol You chose to put two intact animals together. Whatever comes of the union is YOUR responsibility. Just like I don't expect anyone to pat me on the head for well-behaved kids. I chose to have them. Therefore, it would be doing a disservice to them to allow them to act like hooligans because no one is going to want to put up with that. Not teachers, babysitters, or in a glider's case, a prospective owner. smile

Now, if a breeder is asking say, $150 for a glider, yes. I agree theyre making no money off that animal if it includes vet checks, etc. I know that one office fee for an exotic animal at my vet is $79.99 for an exotic animal visit + a "waste removal" fee. Thats WITHOUT treatment. Only to look at the animal. People who charge $700+ for a glider is making their money back in spades. If a good home is MOST important,I've been dying for AGES for a ringtail mosaic. I can afford $150 for a new glider without removing money from my crew's vet fund. I'm willing to sign a pet-only contract and send pictures of my glider set up, etc. Anyone willing to sell me one? I didn't think so. laugh Its because technically you have a product. An expensive product.

I'm just saying, lets call a duck a duck. I understand that everyone just wants whats best for their babies and thats the purpose of a contract. I understand and even AGREE with that. But some people get too high and mighty about it. (I'm not directing that at anyone in particular. Its just something I've noticed in my time being here.) In the end, you're in the business of selling gliders. Plain and simple.


Edited by MissSarah (05/12/11 02:27 PM)
_________________________
Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)


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#1112726 - 05/12/11 02:26 PM Re: Contracts [Re: Kayla]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Originally Posted By: Kayla
Connie, Would you be willing to share your contract with me?

PM'd it to you. I want to point out, my contract looks long, but depending on whether you're getting a rescue or a lineaged glider from me, not all parts apply.
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#1112743 - 05/12/11 02:46 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


Let's try and keep this on track please! Discussing neutering or de-clawing can be done in a separate thread if anyone wishes to start one.

Contracts are there to protect the gliders. They are not like cats or dogs where the diet can be obtained in a bag at any grocery store, and they certainly require a lot of time and energy to keep clean cages, bonding, etc.

Of my gliders, only 1 was purchased, and that was Oreo, from a woman off of craigslist. My others have been gifts, both from people that have contracts and people that don't. However, no one has asked me to sign a contract. I think it is due to the fact that I am reachable, that I am in the glider community, that I have given my word to people and kept it. My gliders' original breeders know where I am and how to find me, they know I will reach out if for some reason "life" happens and I need help with or for my babies. That kind of trust is exeptionally hard to give to a relative stranger, as can be seen from the stories posted above. I don't blame anyone that requires a contract on their gliders.

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#1112744 - 05/12/11 02:48 PM Re: Contracts [Re: MissSarah]
Kayla Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 638
Loc: Mohave, AZ
Originally Posted By: MissSarah


Now, if a breeder is asking say, $150 for a glider, yes. I agree theyre making no money off that animal if it includes vet checks, etc. I know that one office fee for an exotic animal at my vet is $79.99 for an exotic animal visit + a "waste removal" fee. Thats WITHOUT treatment. Only to look at the animal. People who charge $700+ for a glider is making their money back in spades. If a good home is MOST important,I've been dying for AGES for a ringtail mosaic. I can afford $150 for a new glider without removing money from my crew's vet fund. I'm willing to sign a pet-only contract and send pictures of my glider set up, etc. Anyone willing to sell me one? I didn't think so. laugh Its because technically you have a product. An expensive product.


With that though, we had to buy the initial "expensive product" to produce one and we still need to cover expenses for all of the other gliders we may have at home. Someone selling a RTMO for a reasonable price might only be making 100 or 200 or even 300, but that doesnt mean its just money in their pocket to play with. Maybe some people need to pay off the credit card they used to buy the initial RTMO they bought, or maybe they are selling their babys so that they CAN get their males neutered or maybe they just love having babies around the house, love educating people about it & in the back of their mind, theyd like to break even with everything theyve spent. Selling "expensive" gliders certainly isnt a get rich quick scheme, ask any breeder, they will tell you the same.

Back OT..

Contracts are very important to gliders, they arent your normal cat or dog that everyone has common knowledge about. They require special food, special cages, special care, etc. Most breeders arent trying to control the animal, we just want to make sure they are cared for properly & in the event that "Life Happens" we are here to love our babies & take them back as if they never left us!


PS.. Thanks Connie!


Edited by Kayla (05/12/11 02:48 PM)
_________________________
Gizmo & Trinket
Remy, Bolt & Luna
Violet, Lavender & Indigo
Amaretto & Bailey
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo: :plat: :leu:

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#1112749 - 05/12/11 02:58 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3570
Loc: Kansas City, MO
My contract says 1. no solo glider 2. breeding or non breeding section. 3. first right refusal 4. deposits and payments 5. breech of contract

Pretty basic. If anyone wants to see it go to my website, policies, then at the bottom it can be downloaded.

Sorry to the people who think its double dipping; but it just isn't. Anyone just go ask ANY animal shelter when it comes to animals there are different rules because they are not property but I will call it whatever I need to for legal purposes.
_________________________
~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*

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#1112764 - 05/12/11 03:27 PM Re: Contracts [Re: Kayla]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Originally Posted By: Kayla

With that though, we had to buy the initial "expensive product" to produce one and we still need to cover expenses for all of the other gliders we may have at home. Someone selling a RTMO for a reasonable price might only be making 100 or 200 or even 300, but that doesnt mean its just money in their pocket to play with.


Good point. To get back the money I paid for one pair of breeding gliders, I would have to sell four breeding joeys or eight pet only. That doesn't cover my vet expenses, housing, food or toys. With mo rt, you may not get joeys that people are looking for. The breeding pair may not have but a couple joeys a year or may not have any at all or have problems with rejection/pulling joeys, etc. it could take me 3 or more years, just to recoup my initial costs, before I think about making money.

I'm a small rescue home and hobby breeder (1 pair, 1 trio). My passion is rescuing. Many of the rescues that come to me, have been neglected at best, fed poor diets, been in inadequate, filthy housing with no wheels, toys or human interaction or been abused. My contract covers rescued gliders and lineaged gliders. As much as I want to protect my lineaged babies, I am fiercely protective of my rescues. I have turned down many people, because they didn't even want to fill out my questionnaire, let alone sign my contract.

It is my responsibility to give every glider who comes through my door, not only what it needs, but what it deserves. That includes finding the best home I possibly can. To me, if someone is willing to give my babies the lifestyle they need and deserve, signing my contract shouldn't be an issue. Signing it, shows me they have my suggies best interests at heart. By the time someone signs my contract, I've already been through the other part of the adoption process. The contract is reassurance to my heart. Will I follow the legal part and take someone to court if the issue comes up? Yes. But signing the contract is more of a tangible sign, that I've made the right decision in who I've chosen to have my baby.

I hope that makes sense. smile
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#1112767 - 05/12/11 03:33 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
MissSarah Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 3039
Loc: Bristol, Va
I was never trying to imply that its a "Get Rich Quick" scheme. And passing the buck to pay for the initial glider purchased isn't a strong arguement. And if someone to sell joeys to pay for their glider's neuters, food, etc, then maybe priorities need to be sorted out.

But in the interest of staying on topic I'll enter this as my opinion: I believe in contracts in the interest of keeping your glider safe. However, I don't believe in contracts that try to control everything down to what diet you feed.
_________________________
Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)


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#1112772 - 05/12/11 03:45 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
Mastiff_Mama Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 07/01/10
Posts: 917
Loc: Missouri
I have no problem at all signing a contract for my gliders, or any animal for that matter.

It gives me a sigh of relief that..

A.) I know this person cares ennough about their babies to care what happens to them after they get their money.
B.) I do not need to worry about where they will go in case "life happens" since I know their breeder wants them back
C.) It scares me rehoming since there are too many crazies out there.
_________________________
-Amber Nicole
Mama to 2 Mastiffs... Sonja & Angel
and
A Slave To Many... :grey: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo:
A loving wife to Chris

***Sprinkled With Sugar Paradise***
http://swsp.weebly.com

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#1112851 - 05/12/11 07:40 PM Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw]
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
I have been looking for a leuistic or mosiac glider for a long time now and have found a few at a decent price that I truly wanted but refused to buy because of the breeder's contract. I am one of the most responsible glider owners there could ever be...my babies are spoiled rotten and never want for anything. However I refused to purchase from someone wanting to stay in control of the glider I was paying quite a bit of money for. Luckily I held out until I found someone who I totally agreed with their contract and I am about to get two of the most adorable leuistic boys ever born smile I think if you can not trust someone enough to believe they will provide a good home for your glider you should not be selling to that person. If a new owner is paying you around $1000 or more for a glider they should own the glider and make the choices for the glider once they have paid the bill in full.
This all being said I am always wonderful about keeping the breeders up to date on how their babies are doing and sending notes and pictures because I want them to see how happy the babies are and feel good about selling them to me.
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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