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#1115920 - 05/18/11 07:35 PM (Toxic cage thread) 20+ babies are dead
DaisysMama
Unregistered


My baby has been really sick and i had no idea why, and still dont. Today i went back to a second vet and she gave me some horrifying news - in the last 2 weeks she has seen 20+ gliders all bought from the same place (a mall) and all by the same company. 95% have died. She claims that they have done everything and nothing has worked - calcium injections, steroids, antibiotics, fluids for rehydration, and even treatment for heavy metal toxicity...they just keep dying.

I dont know what to do and i am just keeping my fingers crossed that my girl is one of the lucky ones. She got an injection of steroids, some more SubQ fluid with calcium, and i am home with a calcium supplement and antibiotic to give her for the next few weeks if she makes it.

I dont know if i should go to the press, or what to do at this point. I am so sad and feel so much guilt.


Edited by sugarlope (10/09/11 04:23 PM)
Edit Reason: changed title

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#1115921 - 05/18/11 07:38 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
chattrbabe Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4108
Loc: Phoenix AZ
I would go to the press if I were you. sounds like a (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets booth or another mill breeder booth.
_________________________
Ash

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#1115922 - 05/18/11 07:39 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
oh my god, praying for your baby. i also read your post on
lgg. i hope you post this there as well.

what is going on? this is very scary.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#1115925 - 05/18/11 07:42 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
Nic
Unregistered


Oh NO!! Prayers being sent for your little girl! I hope she pulls through!

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#1115926 - 05/18/11 07:43 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
DaisysMama
Unregistered


I have no idea - (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets thinks it has to do with their cages, but I'm not so sure. My sister got one at the same time and started hers right off on the HML diet and her baby is thriving.


Edited by DaisysMama (05/18/11 07:43 PM)

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#1115927 - 05/18/11 07:45 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
DaisysMama
Unregistered


and i just want to add that this is from ONE vet - the other vet i went to yesterday has seen 5.

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#1115931 - 05/18/11 07:54 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
daisysmama,
what kind of cage is your sister using? there have been
alot of sick gliders mentioned here and on lgg regarding
a certain cage, i believe you had the cage that is in question.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#1115932 - 05/18/11 07:56 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
DaisysMama
Unregistered


She has the same cage too Nancy. The only difference between ours is the diet, and the fact that hers was bigger (older?) when we got them.

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#1115935 - 05/18/11 08:03 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
Tricia
Unregistered


Oh Sweety - Keeping you both in my prayers. sounds like you're doing everything you can to help her. hug2

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#1115936 - 05/18/11 08:05 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
Tell your sis to get it out of the cage!! Heavy metal toxicity WILL take longer to show signs/symptoms the larger the animal, once the signs/symptoms show up its darn near impossible to treat as they are already to far gone!!


Edited by Chris_R (05/18/11 08:06 PM)

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#1115938 - 05/18/11 08:05 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
DaisysMama
Unregistered


I also would like to ask that people from Pocket Pets please stop calling me, as I do not wish to discuss this further over the phone. I know you are reading this, and I would be happy to discuss this here where others can weigh in on the situation as well, and the issue is made public.

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#1115939 - 05/18/11 08:06 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12055
Loc: Wisconsin
Please give this link The Mill Breeder Project to your veterinarian so that she may give her findings to Linda S the head of The mill breeder Project.

This information is vital to the mill breeder Project.

Sending prayers and good thoughts out to you for your baby.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1115940 - 05/18/11 08:07 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
DaisysMama
Unregistered


Thats a good point Chris - i'll let her know.

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#1115941 - 05/18/11 08:10 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
holelottaRosie Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Joppa, Maryland
I got my first glider from Pocket Pets back around Thanksgiving...she ate the pellets they gave me for about 2 weeks or so then I didnt research bought a much better pellet from Exotic Nutrition. A few weeks after that I made my first batch of BML...she is now one plump happy picture of health little girl. I truly can't say that Pocket Pets lied to me about anything....They fail to tell you alot though. I would never buy from them again if for no other reason they target kids in the malls....It is my opinion that gliders are NOT a suitable pet for children...I'm sure most people on this site would agree with me on that.

Gary
_________________________
Gary
Servant to
Mia & Rosie :grey: Delilah :wfb:
Piper,Phoebe and Paige :grey: "The Charmed Ones"
My Connie babies Liam & Lilith :bb: And Sparrow :rtmo:
3 Kitties Jazzy,Angus and Clyde..We miss you Ashley
1 Adorable Basset Hound Puppy "Zelda The Great"
1 Adorable Wife Celia "The Boss"

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#1115943 - 05/18/11 08:15 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
kjgoulet Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 02/12/11
Posts: 1516
Loc: North Dakota
I agree with you Gary 110%!

I hope your baby pulls through and your sister's does as well. Like what was said about it just taking longer to do anything, she may be able to help hers live if she switches now! Both your and your sister's babies are in my thoughts and prayers!
_________________________
Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com

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#1115944 - 05/18/11 08:15 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
Contact Val at www.thesweetspot.forumotion.net as they are tracking these problems

(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets babies are NOT the only ones across the country that we are seeing these problems with...It does appear at this stage that it is linked more with the cage wire type than anything else

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#1115945 - 05/18/11 08:21 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
holelottaRosie Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Joppa, Maryland
Does anyone know the cage type in question? Coating type? who makes it?
_________________________
Gary
Servant to
Mia & Rosie :grey: Delilah :wfb:
Piper,Phoebe and Paige :grey: "The Charmed Ones"
My Connie babies Liam & Lilith :bb: And Sparrow :rtmo:
3 Kitties Jazzy,Angus and Clyde..We miss you Ashley
1 Adorable Basset Hound Puppy "Zelda The Great"
1 Adorable Wife Celia "The Boss"

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#1115946 - 05/18/11 08:22 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
daisymama,
there have been gliders dying and they all have 1 thing in
common-they were in martins cages. they also have the symptoms your glider is showing. please use or buy a different cage. there is alot of trouble and everything points to the martins cages.
the info is at lgg abt. these martins cages.
the person that wrote abt. his glider said giving alot of
fluids, feedings, antibiotics, etc. helped his glider.


regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#1115952 - 05/18/11 08:32 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3970
Loc: Spring, Texas
Ditto Chris,

just contacted a friend and tried to warn of the wire cages JUST got for babies, lost babies shortly after switching to the coated wire cage, good breeder babies are being affected also.
_________________________
-(`v)-MO MONEY!-(`v)-
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
www.jensfuzzyfriends.com

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#1115971 - 05/18/11 08:56 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: Chris_R]
jen102375 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 571
Loc: Kenosha,WI
Originally Posted By: Chris_R
Contact Val at www.thesweetspot.forumotion.net as they are tracking these problems

PPP babies are NOT the only ones across the country that we are seeing these problems with...It does appear at this stage that it is linked more with the cage wire type than anything else




Please contact Val
_________________________
Slave 2
Hubby Jon
3 daughters Ellivia(13)Hanna(10)Alayna(6)
6 Suggies: Harley/Abby, Pongo/Pracilla, Cash/Charity
4 wonderful Rescues

Jen
262 748-4128 24hr help
www.thegliderboutique.com

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEY'S (THANK YOU) smile



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#1115989 - 05/18/11 09:15 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
TTrusty Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 459
Loc: Southern Iowa
Giardia and parisites is another thing vets need to be checking for in (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets gliders.
_________________________
Mommy to:

Zoey and Teeka

Rockie, Bo and Hamilton

Sadie, Levi, Maggie, and Radar (dogs)
RIP Tippy (rescue)

Three human kids Natosha, Skylar, Keith
And a now new grand baby Abby

Glide Free My Boy MoMo
We will always Love You

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#1116008 - 05/18/11 10:03 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: TTrusty]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
The MBP has been fully aware of these issues and are working with the proper authorities to get to the root of the problem.

We do know that this is not isolated to just one Broker, as there are several other distributors of cages who are having the same issues.

There are many steps being taken right now to resolve and correct the problems. Please contact me at director@millbreederproject.com if you know of or have been experiencing health issues with your sugar glider.



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#1116018 - 05/18/11 10:34 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


If you are experiencing these problems, please contact Val, LSardou, or Bourbon on the issue. They are all in contact with vets on this and have seen/heard multiple cases.

The first thing you can do at home, is remove your gliders from that cage. If they area seizing, they need to be in a hospital-sized smaller cage anyway. The pop-up travel kennels at Walmart are an excellent choice here, as they can be laid on their side to reduce risk of falls, and are also softer than a metal cage, and very quick and cheap to acquire.

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#1116038 - 05/18/11 11:29 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
I'm sorry about your baby frown....


Edited by angelic4296 (05/19/11 11:26 PM)
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#1116055 - 05/18/11 11:44 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Is this similar to the problem PrincessMegi had a few years ago? She bought a different kind of wire from Kuberantz and it had some sort of coating on it that was releasing toxic fumes.

Does anyone remember that? - or could contact Megi. I seem to recall that she took the cage to a power washer/car wash and the detergent there was able to take that toxic coating off. But I don't remember what they ever decided the coating was.
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#1116060 - 05/18/11 11:59 PM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Midien Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 128
Loc: Mississippi
Quote:
there have been gliders dying and they all have 1 thing in
common-they were in martins cages. they also have the symptoms your glider is showing. please use or buy a different cage. there is alot of trouble and everything points to the martins cages.
the info is at lgg abt. these martins cages.
the person that wrote abt. his glider said giving alot of
fluids, feedings, antibiotics, etc. helped his glider.


Wait... Martins cages?? I just recently got Nox's new cage from there! Is it the cages ordered from Martins? Or just the ones that the mill breeders are using that are made of similar materials?
_________________________
~Laura~

<3 :grey: Nox (Approx. OOP 02/15/2011) and Luna :grey: <3
and a puppy - Tucker (Approx. birth 05/2007) <3

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#1116063 - 05/19/11 12:12 AM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
She bought a different kind of wire from Kuberantz


I didn't think she got it from Klubertanz but off ebay? I know it was blue coating on the wire, not the black like the Klubertanz.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1116065 - 05/19/11 12:18 AM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: Midien]
WintersSong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 2294
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Midien
Quote:
there have been gliders dying and they all have 1 thing in
common-they were in martins cages. they also have the symptoms your glider is showing. please use or buy a different cage. there is alot of trouble and everything points to the martins cages.
the info is at lgg abt. these martins cages.
the person that wrote abt. his glider said giving alot of
fluids, feedings, antibiotics, etc. helped his glider.


Wait... Martins cages?? I just recently got Nox's new cage from there! Is it the cages ordered from Martins? Or just the ones that the mill breeders are using that are made of similar materials?


From what I am understanding,
many members have had problems with Martin's Cages lately, having ill gliders. It is believed that there is something wrong with the recent "batch" of PVC coated wire.

Pocket Pets starter cage is PVC coated wire as well, and now problems seem to be arising with use of that cage.

To me, it appears that there is just something wrong with the wire now. I, personally, would not put my gliders into a PVC coated wire cage until everything is sorted out.
_________________________
~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin

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#1116070 - 05/19/11 12:32 AM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
eshaw Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 593
Loc: Iowa
Daisymoma, what did you do to feel guilty about? Nothing that I can see. Sometimes things are just beyond your control so there is NO SENSE in beating yourself up for it.

All this talk about heavy metal toxicity, has anyone actually contacted the cage manufacturer to see what paint they use on their cages? Are they aware that there is even an issue? MSD sheets will tell you everything you need to know about chemical compounds but you have to know the brand name for the paint in question first. I'm also assuming that the vets think there may be a chance of lead poisoning, thus the heavy metal issue. I'll make a prediction. Once it's determined that the coating is the cause they will find that these cages all stem from specific lot numbers and the coating in question has been provided by a new vendor. Or worse yet, they really cheaped out and went to a Chinese manufacturer. Anyone remember what happened with McDonalds and their Chinese toys? These are not isolated incidents either.

ValkyrieMome, this is another reason that cage materials need to be scrutinized very carefully. The purchased wire you're referring to is probably coated with a galvanizing material after welding is done. This is done to keep the wire from rusting. However, this coating causes the urinary tract infections you're probably all aware of but in the wrong environment, such as around a heat source if does and will give off a lethal fume. I know this for a fact from doing welding over the years. This is something you do not want to do without proper protection.


Edited by eshaw (05/19/11 12:33 AM)

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#1116084 - 05/19/11 01:21 AM Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ]
Midien Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 128
Loc: Mississippi
Quote:
To me, it appears that there is just something wrong with the wire now. I, personally, would not put my gliders into a PVC coated wire cage until everything is sorted out.


What would be the best alternative, then, if I needed to set up a secondary cage? He likes to chew a bit on the edges of things, so I'd been worried about using a mesh cage, and while I'd thought about making a PVC framed one, don't some of those designs use the same coated wire as Martins?

Nox has seemed mostly fine so far, but... :/ (For me, as well as anyone else in my position who may be reading this) Since he's been in a PVC coated cage, what should I tell the vet to check for, next time I go? If there's a test they can do to see if there's a toxicity problem now rather than waiting, better safe than sorry I guess.

Something else that might be a good question, though:

Is it a problem with the PVC itself being toxic? Or maybe just a problem with a coating that could be washed off? Or just the PVC 'off-gassing'? Granted, I'm no expert on cages, but I'd be curious.
_________________________
~Laura~

<3 :grey: Nox (Approx. OOP 02/15/2011) and Luna :grey: <3
and a puppy - Tucker (Approx. birth 05/2007) <3

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