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#1149017 - 07/21/11 02:16 PM Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"?
VegemiteKid Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 07/13/11
Posts: 84
Loc: Thailand
I made a post in a subject the other day regarding Sugar Glider colors. Not sure how many people saw it, but I would like to discuss the topic further. It was in one of "Suggiegirl91"'s posts but was in no way shape or form intended to be an attack on her. She has two beautiful "grey" kids. I feel it was just the culmination of everything I had read since starting to become "glider aware" and learning as much as I can on this site.

Anway here was my post:


"Out of Pouch

Registered: 07/13/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Thailand

I am am a returned serviceman. I have spent significant time working in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and other countries in the Mid-East, Asia and South America. I have seen the best of humanity and the worst but with glider lines, I just don't get they hype.

To be honest, apart from the fact that some of these guys colors are a bit rarer.... what makes them any less special or deserving of someone to take care of them?

"For the good of the glider". I am not a biologist or a genealogist, but is breeding these lines "for the good of the glider" or to make us happier?

What's wrong with they way God, Allah, Buddha or any other higher power you believe in, made them any less special?

I don't know if it's me who just don't get it, but I have never seen a picture of a healthy, happy glider that didn't melt my hardened heart.

For the good of the glider, not just to satisfy our vanity for something considered, rarer, different, more valuable.

I would rather a happy, healthy, bonded glider who can't stand to be without me and me without him/her, than a single leu or any other type of glider worth a gazillion dollars.

"For the good of the glider", not us.
Is it just me?

Am I missing the point?"

This is my post, re posted for discussion in a more appropriate place, my apologies again "Suggiegirl91", never meant as a direct attack on you and nor do you deserve any attack. I just had feelings on colors and breeding that sort of culminated and coincided after hitting the "reply" button.

I am intrigued as to what the larger communities opinions are.

To paraphrase my initial post....

"Is it just me? Am I missing the point?"
_________________________
Australian Expat in Thailand

:grey: Milo
:grey: Coffee

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#1149128 - 07/21/11 04:36 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
i have greys, bb's a mosaic and am getting a creamino to go with my mo. i breed and love the excitment of what color could possibly come out. my gliders are healthy and loved and taken out nightly. my grey and wfb just had their first
leu out of many grey and wfb joeys and i was like a kid at
chritmas. many of my joeys have been sold very cheaply because they were going to good, forever homes.
i dont think it is just for the money for alot of us breeders.

hope i answered your question.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#1149130 - 07/21/11 04:39 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
VegemiteKid Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 07/13/11
Posts: 84
Loc: Thailand
Really? Is it that hard to say anything except "that's so great" or "I'm so happy for you" or "you're awesome"?

Is that how people clock up unbelievable post numbers?

I am trying to start a meaningful conversation. Not a flame session. 36 views and one single comment (that arrived while composing this) in over an hour? Not a comment... /hears crickets.

Mmmmh, I thought it was a decent topic for conversation. Maybe it is just me.
_________________________
Australian Expat in Thailand

:grey: Milo
:grey: Coffee

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#1149140 - 07/21/11 04:49 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
GlidersNW Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 324
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
I think the 'for the good of the glider' statement is meant to refer to the lineage. In a lot of cases there is a very small population of certain colors. This leads to COI numbers wich are coefficient of inbreeding numbers. Breeding for the good of the glider refers to getting those COI numbers as low as possible. AKA trying to get the furthest away from the same lines when breeding two gliders.

That's why you see people having things such as you can't breed my gliders with anything with a COI over 3% for instance. 3% being the number I chose since that is the goal point of most breeders at this time. Some colors have a higher COI because of the very limited numbers. For instance There are only three seperate Leucistic origin lines in the US. So these colors tend to run wiht a slightly higher COI than say a standard Grey.

Does this help?

Matt
_________________________
Matt Compton
Gliders NW
email: glidersnw@gmail.com
cell: 503-737-9540

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#1149143 - 07/21/11 04:52 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
Faerie Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/15/11
Posts: 429
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
I am not a breeder, but I am having joeys to increase my colony. I have greys and white faces. I would love to have a leu because I think they are very pretty. But I love all my gliders, no matter what color they are.

There will always be a market for "special" colors, just because people like variety or for the people that think expensive = better. And there will always be the breeders out there that are in it for the money, and the rarer colors bring more money.

I am with you, all of the gliders I see melt my heart, no matter what color they are.
_________________________
~Michelle~

wife, mom to 3 teens and 1 adult,

and slave to my 8 gliders

Skeeter, Luna, Rocky, Patches, Sweetie, Big Sissy, Little Buddha, and Nikko

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#1149144 - 07/21/11 04:53 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Breeding should only be done to maintain and improve the species - regardless of what animal you are breeding.

To say we are breeding "for the good of the glider" can mean many things to different people. I feel that anytime we breed, we should be improving the genetics. In the beginning there was so much inbreeding to increase the population of sugar gliders and gliders of color, that we now need to look so closely to make sure we are at a minimum maintaining to bettering the genetics.

Breeding for color, well that just means that you'll some babies that aren't always grey.

Is it vanity? That's a matter of opinion. People have personal preferences to the color of gliders, some could care less about the color.

Breeding, when done responsibly, ensures that the species will continue, as well as the colors.

We haven't "created" these colors, it's already in their genes. We have to know what the genetics are and when paired appropriately (for some) will reproduce that color. God, Allah, Budha or whomever already set that into motion. We just need to responsibly continue that in captivity.
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1149149 - 07/21/11 04:57 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: Faerie]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: Faerie
And there will always be the breeders out there that are in it for the money, and the rarer colors bring more money.


Some think this to be true. But let me tell you that it's not necessarily true with all breeders. I was breeding mosaics and couldn't sell them to save my life! I kept 2 of them (well maybe 3 with my new RT girl). I sold a RT mo for $100! Platinums, which is one of the most rare colors are not bringing anything close to what you would think. So rarer colors aren't bringing those historical high prices.
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1149153 - 07/21/11 05:02 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I have two breeding cages of gliders. One pair and one trio. Both of the males are Mosaics (father and son). One of the females (in the pair) is a WFB, the other two (in the trio) are Lions.

I breed first and foremost for TEMPERAMENT. Color variation is only a bonus for me. I prefer the mosaics simply because I just never know what coloring or markings they may have.

I have 27 gliders currently. My choice of color preference is, anything but all white. I LOVE the markings. To me it is the markings that are so interesting and unique. This leaves me not wanting Leus or Albinos at all (ok, don't want albinos because I personally believe they are freaks of nature in any species).

All of my gliders are treated equally. Each gets the same number and types of toys, same food, same treats, same time with ME. And over the years, I've had grey babies, wfb babies and mosaic babies. I love each and every single one of them simply because they are so incredibly cute!
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1149155 - 07/21/11 05:03 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: GliderNursery]
Faerie Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/15/11
Posts: 429
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
Originally Posted By: Faerie
And there will always be the breeders out there that are in it for the money, and the rarer colors bring more money.


Some think this to be true. But let me tell you that it's not necessarily true with all breeders. I was breeding mosaics and couldn't sell them to save my life! I kept 2 of them (well maybe 3 with my new RT girl). I sold a RT mo for $100! Platinums, which is one of the most rare colors are not bringing anything close to what you would think. So rarer colors aren't bringing those historical high prices.


I definitely didn't mean all breeders, sorry if it came off that way.
_________________________
~Michelle~

wife, mom to 3 teens and 1 adult,

and slave to my 8 gliders

Skeeter, Luna, Rocky, Patches, Sweetie, Big Sissy, Little Buddha, and Nikko

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#1149169 - 07/21/11 05:15 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
GlidersNW Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 324
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
I forgot to mention the temperment. We handle our babies a lot. We also let other people handle them (make sure they have clean hands of course). This makes them (typically, as always there are exceptions) more easily handleable by the new owners. I've gotten a lot of compliments on how easy it was to bond to our glider's joeys. i think people around here are used to gliders that come from places where they are not handled much or at all in some cases. The worst thing I have seen are gliders in pet stores. They are unhappy. They are in a place where people are poking at them when it's bed time. Talking and making noise while they are trying to sleep, and EVERYTHING changes daily. It's never the same person twice. This does nothing to help the personality of the glider. I won't sell joeys to a store ever. It's a bad life. The other reason I won't send a joey to a store is that they don't care who takes the animal home. Improving the life of the Sugar glider has as much to do with where you send it as with what you do before it goes 'home.'
_________________________
Matt Compton
Gliders NW
email: glidersnw@gmail.com
cell: 503-737-9540

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#1149171 - 07/21/11 05:22 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
Laci Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 1407
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I personally own a black beauty, and a leu... I don't breed... my leu is neutered...

Wanting a certain coloration... I personally would love to have a mo and a cremino, and an albino... but money is tight and they are quite pricey, so I don't think I will ever have those colors...

Now WANTING the different colors... it's like wanting a different species of dog... I currently have a lab, but in the future I want a rot, or a german shepard... It's basically the same thing...

Really and truely, it's all about healthy sweet gliders, but if I could add a little variety to my life, I would... I KNOW those "standard" beauties will find homes because they sell for cheaper... but not everyone can afford the colors and they deserve homes too...
_________________________
Laci & Corbin & Isabela!
Kira OOP 12-19-06
Sir Diddymus OOP 01-07
Ambrosia OOP 11-06
Calliope ??
Tales 2002-2007
Guiness Feb. 2005-jan. 2007
Baby Millie 12/19/06- 1/10/07
I miss you guys terribly

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#1149184 - 07/21/11 05:36 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12070
Loc: Wisconsin
I like some of the colors. I am with Theresa on the all white gliders, I prefer the markings.

I have standard greys, white faced gliders and one mosaic. Even if I had the money I doubt I will ever get a cremino, just doesn't trip my trigger.

I would love to have a couple lineaged pair of standard grey that are not het for anything. Just plain grey.

For me it is greys, white faced and my little mo man Tucker.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1149266 - 07/21/11 07:14 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


Feather, if you want lined grey, we need to talk girlie tounge

I see very few people breed for vanity. It's not a get-rich-quick type of thing. Factor in vet checks for your breeding animals, USDA paperwork, neuters for gliders leaving your home, the time to draw up contracts, the time you spend socializing joeys, care, feeding, cage cleaning...it's a LOT of work and money. When the colors were new there was a lot of hype, but most of the people that can afford to pay that much for a glider already have. The economy is still on the rocks and there is a bigger supply of colors available, hence prices are dropping. Significantly. But I see nothing wrong with responsibly breeding gliders, regardless of their color.

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#1149283 - 07/21/11 07:34 PM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
hpyhwn2003 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 3636
Loc: In paradise
Heads up Jessica and Feather. Alden has my Bingo and Dani (Neeka) and they are with joeys. Lined gray as a mate to what Jessica has??? I know they aren't related so lineage would certainly work.

Now back to the regularly scheduled discussion...

Until I moved I had fully intended to eventually own at least one of every color glider. I already owned CGs, WFs, WF/WTs, MOs, and a very special Leu. So I was well on my way to accomplishing that goal. Good thing I've got a very accommodating and helpful husband. Why you ask? 1. Because I love variety, talk about eclectic just ask Jessica she's been to my home many times. LOL 2. Because I LOVE gliders no matter what size, shape, color, or temperment, I LOVE them all and would own as many as I could properly take care of. Again ask Jessica about that. OR most anyone that knows me here on GC. roflmao
_________________________
Elena
http://hillhavensugargliders.webs.com
TGI
SGGA

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#1149535 - 07/22/11 02:29 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1523
Loc: Lake Havasu City, AZ
As long as a breeder is breeding responsibly and making sure the COE's are as low as possible, then they are doing the lines good, no matter if the gliders they breed are standard gray or a Cremino.

We examine the lines of all the gliders we breed to make sure that we are not going to be introducing genetic defects by breeding too closely. It's very important for any breeder to do this.

Now, breeding without lineage at all is not in the best interest of the animals, and most would call it irresponsible breeding. You must understand that breeding in this way does promote possible genetic defects that can eventually kill a glider.

If one breeds, one must do so with care and respect of the animals. Getting colors is certainly a fringe benefit and I will not lie.........I love the colors. I have several myself, and I see nothing wrong with that. They are happy, healthy, and well bred. That's all we can ask for.
_________________________
Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena


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#1149539 - 07/22/11 02:57 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
GlidersNW Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 324
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
I started out with a pair of standard greys...Now I own a variety of colors. I have standard greys, WFB, leucistic, Creme-ino, Mosaic, and one very cool True Platinum Mosaic Ringtail White face boy (see avatar). I have nice colors...but it's definitely not a get rich quick scheme. You're not going to make a living off gliders unless you are a mill. Most people who breed gliders do it to pay for the hobby and to spread the love. For the god of the gliders means breeding for low COI's and breeding non-sterile line. Most of all it's for the joy of the hobby. I do this from home..not as a living...but as something I really enjoy doing. I enjoy meeting the people that enjoy thier animals. Yes...some of these gliders are in the very expensive category. But that being said. It's expensive to do. The only reason i can do this is that I work from home. I am here all the time. It makes it so I can enjoy my hobby full time. I'm lucky in this way. That being said. I do this because I've lost the ability to do other things in life. So this is my escape. Doing something I enjoy.
_________________________
Matt Compton
Gliders NW
email: glidersnw@gmail.com
cell: 503-737-9540

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#1149562 - 07/22/11 04:54 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
eshaw Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 593
Loc: Iowa
"Really? Is it that hard to say anything except "that's so great" or "I'm so happy for you" or "you're awesome"?

Is that how people clock up unbelievable post numbers?"

Yes. My personal favorite is blah, blah, blah, someone will be along in a while who can answer this! ha ha ha You gotta love it.

Yours is a loaded question and you're going to get lots of different answers on it. To tell you the truth it sounds a lot like something I'd ask. The way I see it is this. There isn't anything wrong with breeders breeding responsibly, for colors or standards. Variety, not just to satisfy our vanity, for something considered, rarer, different or more valuable isn't always the case. It depends whom you talk to. Some people are totally in it for these reasons. You prefer the dominant coloration (standard) and there isn't anything wrong with that but some people such as myself like the colorations while others prefer the variety mosaics present, i.e. no two are alike. Did that answer your querry?

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#1149566 - 07/22/11 05:27 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: eshaw]
VegemiteKid Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 07/13/11
Posts: 84
Loc: Thailand
Nothing wrong with a loaded question. wink Was after an interesting discussion.

I would be interested in what the percentages of these specific colorings and patterns are in wild populations. Given the limited base population that the pet populations have grown from, is it healthy to be specifically breeding these lines? I don't know. I am not an expert and don't claim to be.

Cat and dog breeds have been bred for hundreds of years around the world. Gliders, outside of wild populations, a couple of decades? I worry that breeding to satisfy our human desire for something "rarer" worries me that this may be at the expense of healthy, happy glider...regardless of good intentions of well meaning breeders.

It's just a nagging concern of mine. I do worry a lot more about the breeding practices of mill breeders in Thailand more though than breeding in the US. I think there is a bit more guesswork done here. This is through no fault of their own, but that of a education system that many drop out of young to support their families. I would hazard a guess that many/most breeders in Thailand have only a basic grasp of genealogy.

Anyway, as I said earlier, my intent is an interesting conversation.
_________________________
Australian Expat in Thailand

:grey: Milo
:grey: Coffee

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#1149567 - 07/22/11 05:31 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: eshaw]
VegemiteKid Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 07/13/11
Posts: 84
Loc: Thailand
Originally Posted By: eshaw

Is that how people clock up unbelievable post numbers?"

Yes. My personal favorite is blah, blah, blah, someone will be along in a while who can answer this! ha ha ha You gotta love it.


Yeah, I totally agree. Not to say there are not people/mods here who put a lot of time and thought into each of their posts and clock up the big numbers. My hat off to them, cause I personalty appreciate the effort. Especially being a newbie like myself.

Cheers.
_________________________
Australian Expat in Thailand

:grey: Milo
:grey: Coffee

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#1149572 - 07/22/11 06:02 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
GlidersNW Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 324
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
You can't calculate the COI of a wild animal. You have no history on it. It takes 5 or so levels of breeding before we consider a glider to have a proper lineage that can be calculated. This makes the COI numbers more accurate. In the wild there is no way to tell if the animal has one seperation or ten. You can do a DNAtest to tell if they are reated...but I'm not sure this will accureately tel you the COI. I think you have to chart it. Although...now that I am thinking about it I may have this wrong. Can anyone correct me?

Thanks.
_________________________
Matt Compton
Gliders NW
email: glidersnw@gmail.com
cell: 503-737-9540

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#1149642 - 07/22/11 09:48 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: GliderNursery]
JessieR
Unregistered




Shelly, I have looked at your site a lot. I am in love with your Maddie; she is absolutely gorgeous! I would love to see Simon as well. Maddie just couldn't be any prettier!

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#1149645 - 07/22/11 09:56 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: GlidersNW]
Jos Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 211
Loc: La Crosse, WI
I'll be the first to say that I'm a vain person, however my vanity doesn't extend to other living creatures, especially my pets. I love the colors because they are not what one normally sees. I find them interesting and inspiring, something different.

But I'm also well known in my own family for eccentric behaviour and owning animals that others consider dangerous or exotic, for example my wolfdog Ivory.

I don't find breeding for color a vanity thing, the breeders I've seen who do this make sure to breed their lines carefully, making COI's lower and lower while preserving the color which is, in my humble opinion, for the good of the glider. The lower we can get the COIs in colored lines, the better every glider from those lines in the future will be. There is no way that could be considered mere vanity.

You're bound to get bad apples in the barrel. That's a fact of life, however as long as the breeders are doing it correctly and for a purpose, there is no vanity involved.
_________________________
Mom to

Ivory (husky mix)6/2006 - 12/23/2009 RIP babygirl
Punk (Pomeranian)
:wfb: Jazz, Rock, & Roll, Trance and Rave (oop 7-15-2011)!
:leu: My sweet little Swing

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#1149658 - 07/22/11 10:14 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
"Really? Is it that hard to say anything except "that's so great" or "I'm so happy for you" or "you're awesome"?

Is that how people clock up unbelievable post numbers?"

Yes. My personal favorite is blah, blah, blah, someone will be along in a while who can answer this! ha ha ha You gotta love it.



As a person with an unbelievable post count, I have to comment on this. Many of the posts on there came from when I was a mod. FEW of my posts have been "fluff" post, though there are some. And I try hard not to post just to be argumentative or rude.

And posting telling someone "blah, blah, blah, someone will be along in a while who can answer this!" is telling that person that "I don't have the answer but you are not being ignored." And while it may annoy some people, to that person asking the question, it lets them know that at least one person is paying attention. Often those responses follow questions from fairly new owners. It is called being polite to our new members or guests.


Also...those that have been here a while know those post counts mean nothing. They are only an indicator of how much someone is on the board, not what they may or may not know about gliders.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1149703 - 07/22/11 11:22 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
SugarGliderLove Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 853
Loc: US
I must say I am with VegemiteKid on this. I don't see why people breed for one color. I may be hated for saying this Whats so special about different colors. I can careless what color my gliders are. All 6 of my gliders are black beauty's when I got gizmo,Prince, & Lilly I didn't know they were BB and when I found out I really didn't care. I don't really care that cricket, Dweezil,moon unit or Zoey are BB. What I care about is that they are well taken care of. At time I feel that people breed gliders for the money and not for the good of the glider. As far as linage is concerned to me I don't really care that 3 out of 6 don't have linage. I consider cricket, Dweezil,& moon unit to have linage since I know who their parents are. crickets parents are Lilly & Prince and Dweezil & Moon Unit's parents are Gizmo & Prince. some people may say that those three don't got linage and that I should get Prince neutered since I don't know who his parents were or anything. Its their opinion and I really don't care what they think to be honest.

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#1149708 - 07/22/11 11:37 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: SugarGliderLove]
Jos Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 211
Loc: La Crosse, WI
People breed certain colors because the ARE naturally occuring colors, just like a bay or palamino are naturally occuring colors in horses. Breeding for color just ensures that the colors don't die out and disappear completely. You won't always get a Leu or a Creamino or a Plat or a Lion, in fact many of your babies will likely be grays or WF.

To counter, Dpinkie, I think breeding and not caring if you don't have lineage is NOT for the good of the glider because you don't KNOW what you're introducing to your lines. I have lineage for all my babies, they're all registered and traced... I don't breed because I don't WANT to. Rock and Jazz have proven they can make beautiful WF babies, both are attentive, loving parents, and I'm sure others would love babies from them because of their mild tempers and gentle natures. But I don't breed them because I don't know enough to be a breeder. If I did it wouldn't be for the good of the glider, it would be me being selfish just so I can have joeys. So my boys are neutered.

People here won't hate you for your opinion, because everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just know that how you respond is just as important as what you say. Saying "you don't care what others think" makes people wonder why you bothered to say it at all.

As I said before. I love colored lines. I think each one is beautiful. And maybe someday I'll have some of each color to love on as pets. Just know that saying "I know that people think it's wrong and I don't care what they say" isn't kind seeing as everyone who says "if you don't have lineage you shouldn't breed" Is saying so for the good of all gliders. If you don't care what they say, then don't care, but also don't draw attention to it. Just seems the right thing to do imo.
_________________________
Mom to

Ivory (husky mix)6/2006 - 12/23/2009 RIP babygirl
Punk (Pomeranian)
:wfb: Jazz, Rock, & Roll, Trance and Rave (oop 7-15-2011)!
:leu: My sweet little Swing

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#1149709 - 07/22/11 11:38 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
frown Does it make me a bad person, because my first glider is going to be a leu -- over another color like grey?

I think at the end of the day: All gliders are beautiful and deserved to be loved. You're right, the colors don't really matter in the end -- however!

We, as humans, just can't help who we fall in love with first.

and... I'm not a breeder (I never plan to be), but from the few wonderful ones I've talked to -- I'm pretty sure a lot more goes into the pricing than just the color. The amount of time and dedication it takes is incredible -- you really have to know what you're doing when dealing with genetics.
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1149710 - 07/22/11 11:40 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
vegemitekid,
we do have some gliders that came in from east asia, i know alot of breeders have bought these gliders from s&s exotics(a co. that went to that country to bring them here to the states) to put new blood in our lines. the gliders are called caramels and are a little bigger than our gliders and are supposed to have a nice temperment.

i imagine most of us want new blood for our glider lines and i believe there will be some more coming over.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#1149711 - 07/22/11 11:46 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
SugarGliderLove Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 853
Loc: US
If I choose not to neuter my glider I dont have to. And in response to jos comment people do hate other for what they think trust me i know I have been a target of a few attacks. and if I want to say I dont care what others think I can and I can voice my opinion if I want to no one can tell me other wise.

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#1149713 - 07/22/11 11:54 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
for those that dont give a hoot abt. colors, thats great.
i love all colors and would love to have each color, i do
breed for different colors and am a very small breeder so if anyone thinks we small breeders make any money, you are
very much mistaken. like somebody stated-it is to keep
up the enrichment of the gliders we do have to keep them happy and healthy. i like variety/color in my life and in my pets.

dpinkie03- you state you know the parents of your joeys and that is enough for you? i hope you keep all of your joeys and do not put them out to sell to the public to also be bred some more as you can have very close relatives in the background which can produce joeys with the wiggle syndrom, missing limbs, etc. this has happend and will continue to happen with breeders with your attitude. good lineage is for the good of the glider, to prevent heartbreaking joeys down the line. i would hope you would read a little more abt. how important lineages are. you seem
to have a very poor attitude abt. breeding responsibilitys.

regards,
nancy in detroit


Edited by hwh4ev (07/22/11 11:58 AM)
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#1149714 - 07/22/11 11:56 AM Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
alicedoll,
no, it doesnt make you a bad person for getting a leu, we all have our own tastes.
congratulations, i think the leus are adorable.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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