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#1163482 - 08/19/11 11:39 AM HPW Complete? Candy's Blended?
B3N Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 119
Loc: Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
I'm seeing this pop up more and more. What's the difference from the original HPW?

Has all the complications that came with the Blended diet been resolved? I saw the thread about it yesterday and was considering diets so I wanted to know what's up?
_________________________
Benjamin K.
Suggie Lover

"Even the dawn has trouble hiding the stars; shine for all you're worth." - Me

"My Patronus is a Sugar Glider!" - Me

"Step one is moving. It doesn't really matter how you move. What matters is that you do." - Unknown

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#1163498 - 08/19/11 12:21 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
josefine Online   content
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 2713
Loc: Perry, Iowa
You probably will need to go to both Peggy's(SRLB), & Candy's acct's.,& speak w/both of them.You could PM both of them in the same one,& have a 3 way conversation.They both feel their own diet is the best.
Peggy claims that Candy's calculations aren't @ 100%,but Candy feels that even if your younguns don't eat their meal,that if they just ate the diet,they would be getting all the nutrients needed.
Peggy's,for sure,is alot easier to make.
_________________________
Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com

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#1163505 - 08/19/11 12:39 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
MissSarah Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 3039
Loc: Bristol, Va
I don't believe theres such thing as a "best" diet. It could be the most awesome, out of sight, super nutritious diet out there, but if your suggies won't eat it, its useless.

I know there are several people here that have strong negative feelings about the blended diet, but I know that theres also many that have fed it for a while and have had no incidents.

I'm not sure of the differences between Peggy's original HPW and the blended diet are. I would forward any questions about that to Peggy. Her email address can be found on her website which is HPWPlus.com.

Now, what I can tell you is my personal experience. I use Peggy's HPW Complete and I absolutely love it. I get clean plates every night and my glider's coats look full and plush.
Also, it used to be anytime I got into the tent with my gliders, my eyes would swell together. My allergies were awful. After switching to HPW Complete for a significant amount of time, I can get in the tent and enjoy my babies again without looking like the elephant man when it's over! lol

I would most definitely email Peggy (and Candy too, for that matter) and discuss any questions you may have with them. thumb


Edited by MissSarah (08/19/11 12:40 PM)
_________________________
Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)


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#1163519 - 08/19/11 01:10 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
B3N Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 119
Loc: Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
I looked on the website and maybe I'm seeing something wrong but it states that the protein in the HPW Complete is 14% whereas the HPW Plus is 54%?

Is this a typo?

Read the faqs, nevermind on the above statement.


Edited by B3N (08/19/11 01:19 PM)
_________________________
Benjamin K.
Suggie Lover

"Even the dawn has trouble hiding the stars; shine for all you're worth." - Me

"My Patronus is a Sugar Glider!" - Me

"Step one is moving. It doesn't really matter how you move. What matters is that you do." - Unknown

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#1163526 - 08/19/11 01:19 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
[quote]Peggy claims that Candy's calculations aren't @ 100%,but Candy feels that even if your younguns don't eat their meal,that if they just ate the diet,they would be getting all the nutrients needed.[quote]

I have never claimed that eating only the Blended diet, or any other diet alone, will provide all the nutrients your gliders need. Offering a wide variety of fruits and vegetables along with the Blended diet mixture is a key part of the diet. Each fruit and vegetable contains vitamins and minerals that are needed for balanced nutrition. Each one has some elements that they are rich in and others that they are poor in so offering a wide variety creates a better balance than offering only a few choices. I have expressed my concerns about the relish recipes that rely heavily on Bok Choi and Papaya. No single fruit or vegetable should be over 50% of the fruits and vegetables offered in the overall diet.

As for the "complications" with the Blended diet I will say that I have not recommended any changes to the Blended diet based on the few individuals that felt their gliders did not do well on it. The very few individuals claiming that the Blended diet caused problems have not chosen to discuss their concerns directly with me. I will be happy to discuss it with them. I have had many more individuals tell me their gliders are healthy and thriving on the Blended diet than I have had individuals expressing concerns.

It is difficult to recommend changes when I have not seen any of the problems they have observed with my own gliders who have been fed the Blended diet for over 2 1/2 years. Those that have concerns are welcome to share their observations with me an engage in a discussion including factors in addition to diet that may contribute to what they are seeing.

Blame has been pointed at many glider diets from time to time. Original HPW has been associated with concerns about low calcium to phosphorus ratio of the mix and difficulty choosing fruits and vegetables to increase that ratio. BML has been discussed in relation to liver problems found at necropsy with a number of gliders. Those observations and concerns do not make them bad diets.

The Blended diet is a recipe that I wrote to meet the nutritional needs of my gliders. It is not a combination of other diets, but it does use ingredients that are used in several other glider diets.

As for my diet calculator - it simply does the math for you. If you wish to calculate the amounts of calcium, phosphorus and the ratio for combinations of foods then the calculator has been shared to help you do the calculations. At the request of Peggy and Bourbon, I did delete the calculated values for their diets. This makes the calculator less useful if you want to calculate the full meals you present your gliders, but you can still calculate the ratio for combinations of fruits and vegetables if you choose to do that. Peggy chose not to share the amounts of sugar, protein, calcium, phosphorus, fat and fiber in the HPW Plus and HPW Complete powders so I am unable to include those in the calculator for others to do their own calculations of fruits and vegetables with those diets.

The Blended diet is a choice. Some people do not feel it is good for their gliders. I can say the same for other diets that I do not feel is right choice for my gliders.

I believe, all of the recognized glider diets have their advantages and disadvantages. The all provide the nutrition gliders need. As owners we all have preferences - some want to feed less honey, some want simplicity of preparation and storage, some simply look for the least costly diet. All personal opinions and choices that go into choosing a diet for our gliders. HPW Complete is by far the simplest to prepare, add water only. Priscilla's I feel makes way to much food using the posted recipe for me to store in my smallish freezer. It is not a bad diet, just not one I choose to feed. BML has the longest period of time being used by many individuals. Unfortunately, my gliders will not eat anything with the repcal calcium so it was not the right diet for me.


B3N - The difference between the Original HPW diet and HPW Plus is the main ingredient in each. Original HPW uses Wombaroo High Protein Supplement which is imported from Australia. The same powder is used in the Blended diet to provide vitamins, minerals and part of the calcium and protein and other nutrients. HPW Plus is a new product developed and marketed by Peggy Brewer. This product is made in the US and is prepared very much like the original HPW diet (which she also developed.) HPW Complete, also developed and marketed by Peggy, contains dried honey, dried egg and bee pollen so it requires water only to prepare the mix.

The choice of a diet for your glider depends on which one you feel most comfortable making for your gliders after considering the availability of supplements, other ingredients, ease of preparation and serving. Review all of the recipes and the recommendations for additional fruits and vegetables to accompany each diet and choose the one you feel is best for you and your gliders.
_________________________
Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#1163533 - 08/19/11 01:41 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
I'm seeing this pop up more and more. What's the difference from the original HPW?


The difference between the three??

The Original Wombaroo High Protein Supplement is not a 2:1 Ca:P ratio and one has to wait for the arrival by boat to arrive in the USA. This diet needs to be mixed with eggs, honey, bee pollen and water (Green Juice optional)Please no matter what you hear, DO NOT add additional Calcium. If the fruits and vegetables are fed in a variety and in moderation, the diet WILL balance itself out over time and your gliders will be healthy.

The HPW Plus IS a 2:1 Ca:P ratio therefore allowing folks to not worry about this as much. It also contains flaxseed in the mix along with smelling like sweet Vanilla and the gliders love and thrive off of it. You also need to add this powder to eggs, honey, bee pollen water (Green Juice is optional)

The HPW Complete IS a 2:1 ratio as well. Again allowing folks to be more at ease when feeding. It also contains flaxseed in the mix along with smelling like sweet Vanilla and the gliders love and thrive off of it.
With the HPW Complete all you add is Water (and Green Juice if you so wish).

All three diets are WONDERFUL diets and have all show great success in sugar glider healths and happiness when followed as directed.

It is only when folks feel the need to add addtional calcium and or vitamins to the mix that health issues begin to arise.

Sugar gliders that are on the HPW Plus and the HPW Complete have shown to have healthier, more plush coats, fuller tails and the joeys that come OOP are larger and healthier.

To view some of the testimonials please view the testimonial page http://hpwplus.com/testimonials/testimonials.htm and also feel free to ask those here and on other boards how they personally feel about the Plus and Complete diet.

Benjamin if you have any other questions about the HPW Plus or the HPW Complete diets, please feel free to contact me at critterlove@critterlove.com

I would also like to include that the HPW Plus and the HPW Complete are indeed veterinarian Approved and Recommended diet plans. :-)
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1163600 - 08/19/11 04:26 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Srlb]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Quote:

All three diets are WONDERFUL diets and have all show great success in sugar glider healths and happiness when followed as directed.


Peggy I am sure was referring to the ..
hpw, hpw plus and the hpw complete

the blended diet is a combination of the HPW and the BML diet BLENDED together.

it has an awful lot of variations so there is nothing that is really consistent about the diet itself. even on her site there are variations of the mix alone. The problems associated with the blended can not be addressed due to the multiple variations and variables within the diet plan itself.. after all.. where do you start if there is no consistency.

there are also inaccurate calculations with the BML figures on her site.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1163616 - 08/19/11 05:05 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Bourbon]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Peggy I am sure was referring to the ..
hpw, hpw plus and the hpw complete


Bourbon is correct and I am sorry if I lead anyone to any confusion.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1163621 - 08/19/11 05:16 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
Bourbon wrote:
Quote:
there are also inaccurate calculations with the BML figures on her site.


The BML diet was removed from the diet calculator months ago at your request.

Quote:
the blended diet is a combination of the HPW and the BML diet BLENDED together.



The Blended diet was never intended to be a mixture of any other diets. It is similar to other diets in the same way my lemon cookie recipe is much like my vanilla cookie recipe. Sugar, butter, flour, baking powder in different amounts, mixed the same but the flavorings are a little different.

The Blended diet does share ingredients used in BML, HPW, and other glider diets. It is a recipe I developed after comparisons of a number of diets for the amounts of calcium, phosphorus, sugar, protein, fat and fiber contained in those diets. Once I determined the upper range amounts and the lower range amounts of calcium phosphorus, sugar, protein fat and fiber in those diets, I selected foods in amounts that make a diet that contains a mid range amount for each of those components.

As with all glider diets (check the poll at the top of the forum for a list) not all glider diets become ones that others choose for their gliders. diets that do not meet the needs of glider parents other than the individual that developed the diet - are just not used by others.

If no one chooses to use the Blended diet for what ever their reasons, I am fine with that. I do not market the diet. I do not send out free samples to get people to try it. I do not derive any income from the Blended diet. I do not solicit others to write "letters of support" for the Blended diet. I am not selling it wholesale to others to sell for me.

It is threads such as this one that generate attention for the Blended diet. I will respond to questions when asked but I would prefer that I be allowed to simply answer questions asked and that I not have each question about the Blended diet turned into an attack. I have not initiated a thread about the Blended diet in over a year.

The Blended diet is a recipe, using ingredients found in many other glider diets. Any one is free to choose the glider diet that works best for their gliders.
_________________________
Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#1163626 - 08/19/11 05:35 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: OtteMom
It is difficult to recommend changes when I have not seen any of the problems they have observed with my own gliders who have been fed the Blended diet for over 2 1/2 years. Those that have concerns are welcome to share their observations with me an engage in a discussion including factors in addition to diet that may contribute to what they are seeing.


So what you are saying here is that if you do not experience problems in your gliders you'll have difficulty recommending changes?? If you are going to present a diet to the public to feed (whether you are profiting off of it or not), you have to expect that some gliders won't respond to it the same way yours have; and you, as the creator, have to be able to recommend changes even if you haven't "seen" them.

Originally Posted By: BN3
Has all the complications that came with the Blended diet been resolved? I saw the thread about it yesterday and was considering diets so I wanted to know what's up?


There have been concerns brought to your attention, but I haven't seen much for the discussion factor. I think that was what the OP wanted to know.

ETA: Just seen your post above, and wanted to let you know that my intentions are not meant as an attack in any way. smile


Edited by GliderNursery (08/19/11 05:36 PM)
Edit Reason: added comment
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1163636 - 08/19/11 05:46 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
ssdreamsicles Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: kentucky
I have fed both diets you are looking into. With the blended diet i started off fine. My gliders seemed to like it and my joeys were doing well. After about 5 months i started seeing that my gliders were loosing weight. The few that were showing this were loosing more then i was comfy with. At this time other people had been seeing trouble with there gliders and this diet so i choose to switch back to the hpw diet as i did not want to see if anymore trouble would come of this diet.

I have seen no trouble on the hpw diet nore the bml diet which i have also fed. My gliders showed no trouble with the bml at all. I like these 2 diets and think these would be a great start for you and your future gliders.

I can not tell you a diff in the hpw, plus or complete. I have mainly fed the org hpw.

Hope this is of some help!
_________________________
cloud9Melissa
www.treasuredgliders.com


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#1163639 - 08/19/11 05:48 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: GliderNursery]
Jos Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 211
Loc: La Crosse, WI
I'm gonna have to speak up.

Changes cannot be made to ANY diet if the creator is not made AWARE of the problems people have BEFORE people go off their rocker. This is not a "Bash the Blended diet" thread, lets keep things neutral and not get into an argument like the last thread on this I saw.

I feed Blended, not because of any reason other then MY gliders do well on it. They clean their plates and eat all their fruits and veggies. They didn't do that on HPW (they'd eat about half, and none of their fruits/veggies), and they refused to touch BML for whatever reason sugar gliders have for not eating something. If something medical came up because of diet then I would have my vet give me information as to what the nutritional details were and I'd give it to Candy so she could see if any adjustments based on vet findings needed to be made.

So keep it civil guys. We're adults here.
_________________________
Mom to

Ivory (husky mix)6/2006 - 12/23/2009 RIP babygirl
Punk (Pomeranian)
:wfb: Jazz, Rock, & Roll, Trance and Rave (oop 7-15-2011)!
:leu: My sweet little Swing

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#1163645 - 08/19/11 06:00 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: CandyOtte]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
The Blended Diet was never intended to be a mixture of any other diets.


Candy, when you spoke to me about it way back when, when you were first *Coming out* with it, you wrote me and you told me it is between BML and HPW and that is one of the reasons you called it The Blended diet.

But really it does not matter what you call it or what ingredients are in it, what matters is if it is healthy for a glider to THRIVE on.

What matters is as a CREATOR of a diet, if anyone comes to you and states a concern, you should act upon that concern by discussing the matter with your veterinarian and/or Nutritionist you worked on when coming up with the diet plan to make sure nothing is to be alarmed about.

I personally did NOT say ANYTHING at all about The Blended diet here but since you feel the need to make it sound like a bad thing for me to do by saying:

Quote:
I do not market the diet. I do not send out free samples to get people to try it. I do not derive any income from the Blended Diet. I do not solicit others to write "letters of support" for the Blended Diet. I am not selling it wholesale to others to sell for me.


And it can only be assumed you are speaking of me and these are things I do, I feel a need to come in as well.

YES, I DO send out free samples. Why? Because no matter how good a diet is not every glider is going to eat it. Why should I make people buy a large bag just to find out their gliders wont eat it? But because I am CONFIDENT that gliders will like it, I offer it.

Yes, I DO market my food, why? Because I am CONFIDENT that it is a healthy and good diet for gliders to THRIVE on. And why am I sure about that? Because I work with veterinarians and Animal Nutritionist to make sure that it is. I have testings done and we make sure that the glider is going to do more than just survive.

Letters of Support? NO. They are called TESTIMONIAL letters.

And why do I have them....again because I am PROUD of the way the gliders that consume the HPW Plus and the HPW Complete diets Thrive and look and how HEALTHY they are on them. Look how LARGE the joeys are that come OOP, look at the TAILS and coats in those gliders that consume the HPW Plus and the HPW Complete!! I take pride in that. It was a lot of hard work and not just some ingredients and recipes we put on a piece of paper and threw together.
Wholesalers?? Yep, I DO have LOTS of them and you know what? They sell lots of food!! Including overseas in Malaysi and South Africa and those gliders are thriving as well.

When I had ONE customer come to me with concerns, I took it IMMEDIATELY to the vets and Nutritionist and worked with the person who had concerns. Her gliders are fine and healthy on the HPW diet plans now.

So, NO, I feel NO shame at all marketing a GOOD, HEALTHY diet for gliders.

Quote:
If you are going to present a diet to the public to feed (whether you are profiting off of it or not), you have to expect that some gliders won't respond to it the same way yours have; and you, as the creator, have to be able to recommend changes even if you haven't "seen" them.


Shelly, I couldnt agree more.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1163647 - 08/19/11 06:02 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Jos]
fox0r Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 1061
Loc: Meridian, ID
Originally Posted By: Jos
Changes cannot be made to ANY diet if the creator is not made AWARE of the problems people have BEFORE people go off their rocker.


I think posting on a public form where creator of said diet is an active member is making them more than aware of the situation. Especially when the topic has been brought up more than once. IMO, anyway.
_________________________
-Jen

Sugar Mountain - Sugar gliders in Idaho!

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#1163681 - 08/19/11 06:49 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: fox0r]
Jos Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 211
Loc: La Crosse, WI
The original thread was admitted that it was not brought to Candy first, in fact, she didn't find out anything about it until it was 4-5 pages in.

Again.

diet bashing is against the rules. A newbie came with a question and it has turned into that thread all over.

I think this discussion needs to end.
_________________________
Mom to

Ivory (husky mix)6/2006 - 12/23/2009 RIP babygirl
Punk (Pomeranian)
:wfb: Jazz, Rock, & Roll, Trance and Rave (oop 7-15-2011)!
:leu: My sweet little Swing

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#1163705 - 08/19/11 07:53 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
ssdreamsicles Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: kentucky
Jos,

at what point is it ok for us to talk about diets? It seems unless we are praising a diet it is banned. Where is it ok to bring up the probs of a diet so that people can be aware of things to look for. Or how to make it better? How are we to know how to make a diet better if we cant talk about the good and bad in a diet? I for one would be very upset if i found out gliders were sick or passing and the cause could be a diet and i was not made aware of this and my gliders were on that diet. I do not bash people nore do i like to see a person bashed but if there are probs in a diet that are affecting gliders it needs to be talked about.

Ben,

this forum is full of great info and people. You will find lots of info and advise. My advice to you is to research each diet and make sure its what YOU want to feed and feel is best for your gliders. Then and only then can you know its the right diet. I comend you for doing your reasearch!
_________________________
cloud9Melissa
www.treasuredgliders.com


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#1163716 - 08/19/11 08:16 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Quote:
I'm seeing this pop up more and more.


Ben the reason for this is simple.. it will keep coming up until the problems are addressed and still haven't been, even if she was not aware of the problems till 4 or 5 days in on the last thread, she has had plenty of time to address them since then. The people who had/has the problems post about them, so she knows who they are and how to reach them.

BTW Ben .....Welcome Back !!!
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1163720 - 08/19/11 08:26 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: ssdreamsicles]
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2529
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: B3N
Has all the complications that came with the Blended diet been resolved?
In a word, no. Here are two recent threads with Blended diet concerns:
Thread 1

Thread 2

Originally Posted By: OtteMom
As for the "complications" with the Blended diet I will say that I have not recommended any changes to the Blended diet based on the few individuals that felt their gliders did not do well on it. The very few individuals claiming that the Blended diet caused problems have not chosen to discuss their concerns directly with me.
I, for one, have expressed my concerns. I had an 11-month old glider die, with malnutrition as one of the primary causes on the necropsy. I had two gliders develop HLP. All three of these gliders were born here, and were relatively young. They have made a remarkable recovery since being switched to BML, and diligent vet care/treatment.

Are there any bloodwork results available showing how well all of these gliders on the Blended diet are doing? Could there be one version of the diet that is showing better results? If so, which one?

Originally Posted By: Jos
Changes cannot be made to ANY diet if the creator is not made AWARE of the problems people have BEFORE people go off their rocker.

I feed Blended, not because of any reason other then MY gliders do well on it.
I am truly happy that your gliders are doing well on their diet Jos. This is a valid discussion in response to the OP about “complications with the Blended diet”. The creator WAS made aware of the problems. Many of us have yet to see any kind of resolution or acknowledgement that there may even be a problem. That is the part that concerns me.
_________________________
~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon

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#1163732 - 08/19/11 08:38 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
JeremysDad Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 311
Loc: Raymond, NH, USA
I got my first 2 gliders from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets:( After realizing the pellets they sold for them was [censored] within a week and turning my babies orange, I switched to the Ensure diet.

I did more research and found Priscilla's diet. My babies hated it. I tried everything. Blending, chopping, different veggies etc. If your gliders won't it, then it's not a great choice. But when you pick a diet, give them time.

I feed candy's now. I have no issues with it all, all though my gliders have no been eating well due to the heat wave etc... I like that candy's has a natural human supplement (they are not lizards LOL) and most of the ingredients I can easily get at the store.
_________________________
Jeremy, Lexie and Zoey
Mimi & Pepper, Skeeter, Beaker & Alladin, Nell & Ling
Group Leader - Mill Breeder Project

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#1163733 - 08/19/11 08:38 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
StellaLuna Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 191
Loc: Kentucky
Ben,
When I first got my gliders I put them on the blended diet, they ate it very well, always cleaned their plate, but after several months I notice that they had a yellowish tint in their fur and their tails were much thinner. I consulted my vet and moved them over to HPW. Over the next month their color changed dramatically, they are very fluffy, soft, with full tails and have white underbellies. My boyfriend also just 2 months ago got 4 gliders that had been on the blended diet, and they had the same yellow tint, they were put straight on HPW and their activity level has dramatically increased and their color is already much improved. I know blended might have worked for others, but it didn't work with my gliders, mine eat the HPW complete just as well, and look 1000% better.
_________________________
Kimberly
10 gliders
Stella, Little foot, Ducky, Nox, Lupin :grey:
Tonks :plat:
Pip :leu:
Squeak, Petrie, Spike :rtmo:
1 Brazilian rainbow boa
1 Queen Bee Ball Python
1 leopard Geckos, Spike
3 Cats, Booger Ollie and Padfoot
1 wonderful amazing supportive fiance

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#1163737 - 08/19/11 08:40 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
i also believe that if someone creates a diet and there
are problems that have been made aware re: this diet, it
should be addressed.

it is not bashing to mention there are problems with a
diet as everyone of us that own gliders need to know abt.
these problems which helps us decide for ourselves what
diet we will feed.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#1163781 - 08/19/11 10:00 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12177
Loc: Wisconsin
I fed BML when I got my first glider. Gizmo hated it, Zoey and Widget picked at it. So I switched to HPW (original), they ate that better than they did the BML.

When Candy's Blended diet came out I decided to give it a try as I liked the fact that it had a 2:1 Calcium:Phos ratio. They cleaned up everything. I would say that my gliders were on the blended diet for over a year.

Peggy debuted her HPW Plus and HPW Complete, posting pictures of her gliders. Other people that were feeding the new HPW diets posted pictures of their gliders also. I couldn't get over how thick their fur was, especially their tails.

I made the decision to switch to HPW Plus and I am glad that I did. My glider's fur has changed dramatically, their tails are incredible.

The best part of the new HPW Plus and HPW Complete, Gizmo gained weight! She was always what I would call thin, granted she puts the miles on in the wheel. I worried about her not gaining weight. There is no fighting over food in my cages I have enough dishes out, so she was getting a chance to eat.

I noticed her gaining weight about a month into feeding the new HPW. HPW Plus and HPW Complete are great products, Peggy has put a lot of time and energy into making a product that is safe and healthy for our gliders. She is also doing blood work on her gliders to see what the long term results are on her product.

I am glad that I made the switch to HPW Plus and HPW Complete.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1163883 - 08/20/11 04:35 AM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: ssdreamsicles]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: ssdreamsicles
Jos,

at what point is it ok for us to talk about diets? It seems unless we are praising a diet it is banned. Where is it ok to bring up the probs of a diet so that people can be aware of things to look for. Or how to make it better? How are we to know how to make a diet better if we cant talk about the good and bad in a diet? I for one would be very upset if i found out gliders were sick or passing and the cause could be a diet and i was not made aware of this and my gliders were on that diet. I do not bash people nore do i like to see a person bashed but if there are probs in a diet that are affecting gliders it needs to be talked about.

Ben,

this forum is full of great info and people. You will find lots of info and advise. My advice to you is to research each diet and make sure its what YOU want to feed and feel is best for your gliders. Then and only then can you know its the right diet. I comend you for doing your reasearch!


Nice points! As a fellow glider worshiper and also someone who has looked at creating my own diet, I fully understand where everyone is coming from in discussions like this. There is a very thin line between discussing issues with a diet, and then turning it into a personal attack.

First of all let us leave all innuendos OFF the board, take those up in private please. And not PM's either.

STATE FACTS or ask direct questions. Some examples of what I mean:
"I dont have people selling for me" is an innuendo that the person who DOES have someone selling knows you are indirectly pointing at them. And this makes people defensive.
But so are statements that insinuate the creator of a diet doesnt care about how gliders do on their diet.

There are always different ways to say things to not appear as attacking. For example: see the difference here if I say "Hey diet creator, your diet is killing gliders what are you doing about it" or put it this way "I know you researched while designing this diet, but I have some concerns. How long have your gliders had it. Have you had bloodwork done or had a vet look at it?"

I understand fully how hard it is to leave emotions and personal issues off the board, but this is a subject that does need to be discussed. But if everyone does not play nice, this thread will be removed and the only ones who will suffer are the SUGAR GLIDERS!

So I want to remind EVEYONE of
Originally Posted By: Board Rules
4. GliderCENTRAL is a family oriented "G" rated board. Be polite, courteous and respectful to other board members at all times. This means illegal substances, illegal activities, flaming, sexually explicit subjects, cursing, spamming, harassing, policing, diet bashing, and abusive or negative personal posts are not allowed. Posts and sometimes entire topics that contain such content will be removed, and the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Abuse, flaming or inappropriate comments directed toward GliderCENTRAL, its Moderators and Administrators, or failure to comply with the direction of a Moderator or Administrator, the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Please keep any personal matters off the board. Take it to email or pm. Please keep in mind that board rules do apply when using the PM feature.


As for the original poster's concerns, here is my thinking:

Make the diet that is easiest for you, but that your gliders LIKE!

Here's my diet history:
Pellets and fruit/veggies. Looked good and smelled good.
BML. they got fat. Real fat. Had some concerns over the reptile vitamins and started research on alternatives.
Made my own recipe.
changed it over and over based on what I saw in my gliders or new information became available to me.
Gliders looked GREAT!
then I made a change somewhere and I noticed they looked a little more crackly than I wanted.
Decided to give HPW Plus a try.
My boys love it and look great.
My girls did not love it.
working with Peggy we tried different things, but they never seemed to work for more than a few days. Picky gits!
So no matter how good I think HPW is, I cant feed it to them as they wont EAT it. I beleive its the honey. Too much and my girls turn their noses up. I actually have a taste test video showing Arwen's preference for maple syrup over honey. So I went back to my diet with a few tweaks here and there. Do I advise anyone to use my diet? NO because I am not done thinking about. I think there are still a few things that need to be addressed but I do have it up for others to see ONLY because I got tired of people asking me what I feed.

the point, BML, Peggy's HPW line, Priscilla's, Candy's are all good diets if THEY WORK FOR YOU. Unfortunately since we all feed our own little mix of fruits and veggies, it is hard to pinpoint any issues. Good Lord, nutrients can vary form papaya to papaya depending on the conditions it was grown and stored!!!

So, follow a diet AS WRITTEN, and if it doesnt work for you, change to another diet. BUT POLITELY tell the maker of that diet WHAT happened with using their diet so they know. NOT "your diet killed my glider" but "do you think the diet was the cause?" BUT HONESTLY I feel if a diet killed a glider, the owner of that glider should have seen some telltale signs FIRST, taken their glider to a vet for an exam and bloodwork, and than maybe switched diets.

So you have all been gently reminded to play nice in the sandbox please.

REMEMBER WE ARE ABOUT THE BETTERMENT OF GLIDER CARE!


Edited by JillMarie (08/20/11 04:39 AM)
Edit Reason: typos
_________________________
:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!

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#1163919 - 08/20/11 08:57 AM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Srlb]
crazyk Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 127
Loc: keokuk, iowa
Hi Peggy, I feed the hpw and I am thinking about switching to the hpw complete. How long has the hpw complete been tested? I am confused on what would be better for my gliders. I want to do the best for them and just would like more info. Thanks a bunch!

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#1163989 - 08/20/11 12:59 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: crazyk]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Crazyk, the HPW Complete has been tested for about a year now. We began testing on it several months prior to it being launched.

Quote:
I am confused on what would be better for my gliders.


diets are just about the most confusing things with sugar gliders. I dont think people think about diets with any other animals, not even with our own childrens diets as we do with these little ones.

No matter what you choose in the end, just remember, they are your gliders, and you have to choose something not only that they will eat, but also something that YOU feel comfortable with feeding no matter what everyone else feeds.

If you ever have any questions, please feel free to contact me at critterlove@critterlove.com
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1164132 - 08/20/11 06:42 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: JillMarie]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: JillMarie
First of all let us leave all innuendos OFF the board,..........

BUT HONESTLY I feel if a diet killed a glider, the owner of that glider should have seen some telltale signs FIRST, taken their glider to a vet for an exam and bloodwork, and than maybe switched diets.


Ummm...that's an innuendo JillMarie! smile The glider that died, I was there. She looked healthy, was active and playing perfectly normal that weekend, including the night before she died. The next morning I woke up to a frantic glider owner holding her dead glider. vet care is a normal thing in that household as well.

The creator of the diet was made fully aware of the situation and ignored it.
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1164133 - 08/20/11 06:50 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
josefine Online   content
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 2713
Loc: Perry, Iowa
Sort of off subject, but I still need to ask:
Everytime someone has come w/a diet plan, I have read over & over of how much nicer & thicker the coats & tails have gotten.
I started here just a few years ago, in 2008, & this is a repeat statement made to each diet.
I started out on BML,then I went to HPW,only b/c my gliders wouldn't eat as much as I wanted them to of the BML, but HPW didn't prove to be the answer,either.
Then I started feeding them Priscilla's diet,hoping they would eat the fruits & veggies w/her green powder stuff,(of which I never found out what the ingredients were).They would not eat any of it,whether left on top of the food,or mixed in.
I tried ED & Gails diet,from Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary (it is deemed as a glider soup).
I later did go to Candy's diet,they would eat it if it was fed on its own.When I poured it over the meals,they wouldn't eat anything.It is still a hit & miss w/the blended.
I sent out for the free samples,I ordered both,& they really do not like eggs,let alone 3 in the plus!!
The complete did do alittle bit of a better job,but they still weren't eating it,whether fed on the meals,or fed in its own bowl alone.
W/all the different diets they have been on,I never saw a 'better' coat,or more of a fluffy tail!!
There are days when I know I'll soon go bald,from pulling my hair out b/c of their lack of eating anything.
I continually pray that someday they will no longer be such picky eaters, & eat what is fed to them.
_________________________
Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com

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#1164145 - 08/20/11 07:58 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: JillMarie]
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2529
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: JillMarie
BUT POLITELY tell the maker of that diet WHAT happened with using their diet so they know. NOT "your diet killed my glider" but "do you think the diet was the cause?" BUT HONESTLY I feel if a diet killed a glider, the owner of that glider should have seen some telltale signs FIRST, taken their glider to a vet for an exam and bloodwork, and than maybe switched diets.
Jill, I can't help but take your comments very personally. It is my glider that died. I'm not sure why you are suggesting that I should politely ask the creator of the diet, ""do you think the diet was the cause?" when I had a necropsy from a pathologist at the University of Kentucky confirm malnutrition as a cause of death. That pretty much removes all doubt. I also see it as a personal attack that I should have seen the telltale signs. I would have given ANYTHING to have seen some telltale signs. And yes, I did switch diets before she died, but the damage was already done. I just had no idea of the extent of it. You can rest assured that I have my own guilt to deal with. I made a decision that was fatal for one of my babies, and will live with that forever. I take full responsibility for that decision, but Zoey paid the ultimate price.
_________________________
~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon

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#1164182 - 08/20/11 11:07 PM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28206
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Nancy, I feel your pain and I picture the tears on your face as you post this. I'm so very sorry for your loss.

I do believe that there is a disconnect with the Blended diet. Where or what that disconnect is, I don't know. But I DID feed the Blended for a good period of time. And in that time, I noticed a HUGE change in my gliders. Their activity level was down, but more so, their appearance was just so poor. Their fur was not healthy, their tails were scrawny and there almost seemed to be an "oily" appearance to their fur, even though it was cracked, if that makes any sense. All in all, I was not happy and since the gliders were never finishing their meal, I finally made a diet change.

With all due respect, Jill Marie...I don't know that Nancy could have done anything differently. We all know that gliders hide their illnesses and injuries. Some gliders hide these things better than others, but ultimately, we oftentimes don't know things until it's too late. So I'm not sure that it's a fair assessment to say that she should have known or seen something ahead of time. I know it's neither here nor there, but the last thing I want to have done in this thread is to pass judgment or add guilt to the burden she already carries.

I think this is a valid discussion to have and one that affects so many of us as glider owners. diet is such a controversial thing, but there are issues here with the Blended diet that I really feel need to be addressed. I'm not a nutritionist, nor do I profess to know much about diets at all. So, what those specific issues are, I don't know. What I DO know is that any time you create something, you need to stand tall, through the good and the bad. And when someone approaches the creator of a diet with an issue, it should be addressed, with no excuses, no procrastination. If for no other reason than the make sure that each and every one of the gliders out there are being fed something safe and healthy. One issue - whether it be illness or death - is one issue too many. Once diet is discovered to be the culprit, in one or 1,000 cases, it's time to do a recall until appropriate steps are taken to ensure the health and well being of other gliders. This is the responsible thing to do and would be reinforcing that you're here, first and foremost, "for the good of the glider."
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1164221 - 08/21/11 02:07 AM Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
Nancy, my comments are not meant to be taken personally. I posted on LGG as well that I am very sorry for the loss of your glider. Believe me when I say I have shed buckets of tears when I hear of one of these dying even though I never met them. I am truly sorry you took it personal. I never meant to add to your pain.

This is just the point I am trying to make though. It is when we do take things personal that the discussion gets lost. I think I made it very clear that the Blended diet needs work. But the only way that new members will learn about it, is to read threads where there is a discussion, not an argument. I am thinking back on when I was new and how I avoided threads like that, or why to this day I avoid a forum like Glider Gossip. Its a shame there are so many good discussions that members dont read because of issues like this.

I am NOT trying to downsize your feelings at all. If only you know how badly I want to reach through the screen and give you a big hug and let you see the tears on my face for YOU and your glider. But I am trying to put that aside for the benefit of new people that need to learn so the same doesnt happen to them. When posts become a personal attack, they get pulled. I am trying to stress here that diet discussions need to remain civil so they can stay and help others. IN NO WAY am I downsizing the loss of your glider. Aimee will tell you I had to take days off GC when I lost a family member recently who was a member of the animal kingdom, so believe me, I feel your pain. Please please please lets pull together here for the benefit of other gliders.

Aimee, in no way did I mean to pass judgement or add guilt. Nancy I am sorry if you feel I did that. The comments were meant in a general sense, not directed to you specifically.
_________________________
:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!

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