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#1166775 - 08/27/11 12:00 PM Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared?
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
I'm a firm believer now, that no matter how much research/planning/bourboning you do, that one will never be fully ready/prepared to deal with their first glider -- especially when one has never had a pet before.


I got my darling little girl yesterday. The whole ordeal of having her shipped, was a complete mess. When I went to go open the crate, to put her into a pouch -- I had never seen such a scared animal. I was so worried about her -- and got so scared when she started to lunge. Instead of grabbing her and putting her away, I closed the crate box, and just sat it in my lap.

I tell myself "give her time to adjust, give her time to adjust" -- We drive an hour home -- and try again. This time she was a lot calmer, but still really crabbing and angry. I was so scared, litterally to the point where I was shaking. If it wasn't for my friend, I don't know what I would have done. She held the blankets she was in, and I kind of half scooped/guided her to the new pouch, and promptly put it in the cage.


Needless to say, I was heartbroken. The little angel I was coming to love so much, and was so ready for looked and sounded as if she hated me. I know this isn't the case -- everything is new, and scary -- heck, I'd be like that too if it were me. However, some part of me still felt that it'd be pretty much 'puppy syndrome' that she would look at me and see how much I love her and instantly crawl into my boob or something. I KNEW that would never ever be the case, but coming from someone who has never had a personal pet before -- someone I could claim as my own, it really was a heartbreaking moment for me.

And because I'm a pansy, I was content to let her be -- probably until forever (at this point I think I'm more scared of her than she is of me, literally) My friend (god bless her) came over that night to help me calm down -- she said essentially that I needed to 'grow a pair' and just look at her.

First thing Minnie did as the cage door opened was head into her pouch, rightly so, I begged and begged Rachel to leave her alone -- but she took her out anyway and gave me the pouch.As soon as Minnie saw me, she started crabbing, and I started crying. Rachel just glares at me and tells me to talk to her. And so I did -- for well over an hour. I told her everything I was feeling -- she didn't crab once, while I was talking. If I stopped to wipe my nose or blow it, she'd start again. As soon as I started talking again, it stopped. I told her everything I was feeling, how much I loved her, how sorry I was for scaring her, how thankful I am to have her in my life, how beautiful I thought she was, how I'm so sorry the airport trip was rough.

I felt so pathetic, and embarrassed, being so emotional -- and especially in front of my friend, but it was just so nice to see her look at me and not crab.

She eventually, I guess, got tired of looking at me, and turned her back to me. I took a chance and pet her a little bit on the inside. She didn't even seem to notice -- she was so soft. I had no idea how soft gliders could be. As soon as she'd see me though, it almost looked like she was glaring, would crab, and I'd back off. Once she turned away, I could pet her again. After a while, I put her back in her cage.

Rachel suggested turning the lights off, and just sitting in the room talking. I guess Minnie got bored of being in the pouch, because she came out and was exploring everything. As soon as I made any kind of movement, she'd stop and stare -- ready and alert. Not crabbing or anything, but her eyes were wide and ears were up -- she looked kinda like a tiger ready to pounce, I guess. We just kept acting like we normally would, walking in and out of the room, moving around, talking -- eventually she'd just ignore us.

When Rachel left, I just talked to Minnie through the cage bars. She'd look at me, half of the times looking like she's glaring, other times like "what the heck is wrong with this lady?". Eventually she decided the wheel was much more interesting than I was. I went to put my fingers against the bars, she'd run. I did it slower the next time, letting her watch my hand the entire time. I just wanted her to see that I wasn't going to hurt her. I did it like 20 times, I think, letting her watch my hands go to the cage with a yogie between my thumb and finger -- eventually she very very very tentatively came up to the bars and quickly took the treat from me.

Let me tell you, I was so happy I could have started crying again (I'd did, and I know it's pathetic). I was able to do it a few more times, in the same spot -- I tried for other spots -- and she was more skitterish, but by repeating the same motion, she eventually took it.

I thought to myself, maybe, maybe I can actually do this. Maybe she can get past being scared of me, and me being scared of her. I decided, once she was fine with me putting my fingers on the bars, to put my hand in the cage. I prayed "please don't let this be to fast, please, please, please". I was really scared of undoing the slow progress I had made, but Rachel was right when she said I had to get over my fear.

Minnie was way more interested with the wheel than with my hand, but I was able to play with her a little, without her crabbing up a storm -- not even a peep was heard from her. I had yogies in my palm, and a little bit of the LGRS on my other finger. She'd let me giver her treasure chests with treats in them. I was so proud at how smart she was. I was able to pet her a little (granted she'd kind scoot around me most of the time, but I'm willing to take ANYTHING over how we were when I first picked her up)

By 3:30 in the morning, I was exhausted. My knees have bruises on them from how still I was trying to sit for all those hours.


I talked to her one last time, she looked at me briefly and went back to running. I went to bed. It was hard to get to sleep at first. It was like I had this perpetual checklist, that I had to go over in my head. Did I lock the door? Did I go to fast? Was there enough water? Does she have enough things to play with? Can I make her and myself happy?

I woke up at 6am, first. I looked over to the cage -- let me tell you, she must have had a party or something, because all her toys were lying everywhere, her tunnel was half off, her pouch just hanging by one hook. I got up, and started to just put things back together, quietly -- I didn't want to wake her up.

She did though, and shot out of that pouch like a bat out of [censored]. Again she looked frightened, but I stopped moving, and told her good morning and what I was going to do. I just slowly placed things back as they were -- when I was going to do her pouch, she did this quick like squeal crab noise (I had never heard it before) but stopped quickly. I just opened the pouch for her, she went in, and hung it back properly on the cage. What was weird was that as soon as I did, she started crabbing. I pet her gently through the pouch "crab'crab'crab'crab'crab'. I didn't stop though, I'm sure that my petting was so soft she probably couldn't feel it anymore, but she stopped crabbing and I just closed the door and went to bed.

Now I'm awake. All my courage from last night has seemed to dissipate. My self-doubt is coming back. I look at her cage, and all I can think about is "Oh god, what do I do from here?"

Everyone I've talked to and everything I've read said to give her a few days to adjust before trying ANYTHING. But I feel like yesterday went so well, that maybe she and I made some progress -- that maybe I made some progress.

The breeder said, after a few days, to take her out of the pouch and put her on me, even if she crabbs or lunges -- and just hold her against my heart. I want to so badly, but I'm scared of breaking this slow progress (if it even is progress) I made. Even though she wouldn't let me hold her in the cage last night, I got to play with her, touch her a little, watch her, without her being scared of me.

I don't want to move too fast, or too slow. I don't WANT to be scared anymore -- or her to be scared of me?

I'm not quite sure, what this post really is supposed to be about. I feel like I need advice, or a friend, with someone who understands where I'm coming from. The last pet I had I was six. I sat on him, and was traumatized pretty much until now, at 21 years old. It was an accident, and I wasn't one of those mean spirited kids either or anything, I loved that bird more than anything. I feel like, even though I've researched, and stalked all of bourbon's and everyone else's posts -- I'm at a complete loss as to where to go and what to do!

Do I take her out, like her breeder suggested? Or do I just leave her alone, maybe hold the outside of the pouch? Am I going too slow, too fast?

Everyone has been so kind to me on here. Not once has anyone snarked or lost patience with me, even though I'm sure I asked the same questions that show up on here ALL the time. Please, please, please let me borrow a bit more of your kindness. The advice from someone who can understand me and where I'm coming from would be the greatest gift in the world right now.

Thankyou frown




Edited by AliceDoll (08/27/11 12:55 PM)
Edit Reason: typos --
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1166779 - 08/27/11 12:32 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I have to say, you did AMAZING for a first day!

"bonding" isn't really bonding at all but trust building. It is not only letting her learn she can trust you but that you can learn to trust her too.

Take things slowly. Go at HER pace. She was ok with your hand in the cage, do that again. She is ok taking treats from you, do that some more. She really will let you know when she is ready for the next step. And you will know too.

Patience is the true key here. You are HUGE to her (potential enemy wanting to eat her). She has sharp teeth (potentially to use to bite you). You both have to learn to trust each other. And you will get bitten eventually. While it is a sharp pain, it really isn't bad. I've stubbed my toe and had it hurt much worse and much longer. Respect her teeth but at the same time, don't be afraid to be bitten. It isn't life threatening to you.

Spend time really watching her body language. You will learn what makes her nervous, what scares her, what is likely to make her want to bite. Once you learn these "signs", you will be able to move forward much faster but it takes time to learn.

She doesn't hate you. She is just in a new place with new "threats". She will learn that you aren't going to hurt her, that you only give her good things (treats and rubs and gentle conversation). And as she learns these things, she will open up to you more and more.

Also, know you are NOT alone. I think each of us had "been there" and we know how you feel. It is completely normal. Just hang in there!
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1166782 - 08/27/11 12:45 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: Dancing]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: Dancing
I have to say, you did AMAZING for a first day!

Take things slowly. Go at HER pace. She was ok with your hand in the cage, do that again. She is ok taking treats from you, do that some more. She really will let you know when she is ready for the next step. And you will know too.

Patience is the true key here. And you will get bitten eventually. While it is a sharp pain, it really isn't bad. I've stubbed my toe and had it hurt much worse and much longer. Respect her teeth but at the same time, don't be afraid to be bitten. It isn't life threatening to you.


Thankyou Dancing, your posts are always so insightful and helpful. It's hard. Really hard, trying to teach myself to go from zero and work my way up. You'd think with all the mental preparation I was doing before hand, that it'd be a little easier.

I've done my research, and I've asked the questions. It's just putting it into practical use, is a totally different story.

I guess the best way to describe it, is reading about learning how to ride a bike -- but you can't ever really 'get it' until you've sat your bum on the seat and peddled.

I'm not so much scared of getting bitten. I'm the most accident prone person I know -- Pain isn't what bothers me. Not the physical kind anyway. (I weld and work with industrial power tools for heaven sake) It's more the fact of ME causing her pain. I see her scared, and it scares me. It reminds me of when I held my bird in my hands as a kid and thinking "Oh god, what have I done?" I'm so scared of upsetting her, and 'going backwards' that I feel like I'm going to hinder myself.

Especially because I don't feel confident enough to do what my breeder suggested.

I'm unsure as to where to go now --- to build my confidence, so I could build her confidence in me.
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1166796 - 08/27/11 01:32 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
fox0r Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 1061
Loc: Meridian, ID
Quote:
When I went to go open the crate, to put her into a pouch


Was there no pouch in the crate? From what I've heard about shipping, there should have been?

Quote:
I felt so pathetic, and embarrassed, being so emotional


I'd of been crazy emotional too. Stuff like that just breaks my heart -- not because of the situation itself, but because the poor critters don't understand the situation. We can't explain it to them.

Quote:
I woke up at 6am, first. I looked over to the cage -- let me tell you, she must have had a party or something, because all her toys were lying everywhere, her tunnel was half off, her pouch just hanging by one hook. I got up, and started to just put things back together, quietly -- I didn't want to wake her up.


LOL! Expect this EVERY MORNING! I think half of their fun is making a huge mess for us to clean up!

Quote:
The breeder said, after a few days, to take her out of the pouch and put her on me, even if she crabbs or lunges -- and just hold her against my heart


I personally wouldn't do this -- I wouldn't restrain her. It might freak her out. What you've already been doing is good. You're not pushing her, and letting her get used to you.

If you want to take her out I'd put her in a bonding pouch and wear her a while, and see how she does with that. If she is really unhappy about it, put her back in her cage, and try again later or the next day.

Or you could possibly do this in her cage pouch, too, but just be prepared in case she tries to run for it! They are quick little boogers!

I agree with Dancing -- You did AMAZING! She also gave you some good advice, too!
_________________________
-Jen

Sugar Mountain - Sugar gliders in Idaho!

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#1166802 - 08/27/11 01:46 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Holding her against you...yes, that can help. But I don't think she is quite ready yet, perhaps in a couple of days. You aren't restraining her so much as you are hugging her and letting her know she is still safe. With her in her pouch, and being hugged, she will (most likely) calm down while you are holding her this way...at least until you let go again.

It just all takes time. You will learn to peddle that bike given more time with her. As you learn her body language, you will learn what she is saying to you and your confidence will grow.

Keep in mind, they glide 150 feet and slam themselves into tree trunks when landing. They are not completely fragile. The "hugging" her to you won't hurt her.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1166803 - 08/27/11 01:46 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: fox0r]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: fox0r


Was there no pouch in the crate? From what I've heard about shipping, there should have been?



There was a pouch, kinda, but I wanted to put her into something more comfortable/put together. She was shipped in a cat carrier with a steralite plastic box on the inside -- that was drilled with holes all over for ventilation. She had a little bowl in there with some fruit, and fleece blankies and a single layered pouch. The box was put into the carrier with a fleece blanket on the bottom. It wasn't TOO sturdy, but it wasn't terrible either. I feel like it must have been moved around a lot, because there were fruit pieces everywhere in the box.

When I get my second glider, I'm going to get her locally. I can't stomach another adventure like that. My heart was so broken.


Originally Posted By: fox0r


I personally wouldn't do this -- I wouldn't restrain her. It might freak her out. What you've already been doing is good. You're not pushing her, and letting her get used to you.

If you want to take her out I'd put her in a bonding pouch and wear her a while, and see how she does with that. If she is really unhappy about it, put her back in her cage, and try again later or the next day.

Or you could possibly do this in her cage pouch, too, but just be prepared in case she tries to run for it! They are quick little boogers!



I'm glad that you think this too. Cathy is very confident, and an excellent breeder -- but I'm just.. not. lol I'm very timid -- probably as much as Minnie is now with me.

I'm a little scared now even to even try to touch her, at the moment. Today, I've been petting the pouch on the outside, within the cage. Just a few times so far today. I might when she's playing, change the pouch out to a bonding pouch, so I can zip it close and just hold it tomorrow.

I don't want to stick my hand in there, when she's not ready -- or when I'm not ready. I hate seeing that scared "you're gonna eat me" look.

Originally Posted By: fox0r

I agree with Dancing -- You did AMAZING! She also gave you some good advice, too!


And thankyou, ;_; you're gonna make me tear up. I'm so scared, still, even now -- but I'm trying SO hard. I love her so much -- I just want her to be happy.
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1166815 - 08/27/11 02:47 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
GliderGuy540 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/15/11
Posts: 513
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: AliceDoll

I'm a little scared now even to even try to touch her, at the moment. Today, I've been petting the pouch on the outside, within the cage. Just a few times so far today. I might when she's playing, change the pouch out to a bonding pouch, so I can zip it close and just hold it tomorrow.

I don't want to stick my hand in there, when she's not ready -- or when I'm not ready. I hate seeing that scared "you're gonna eat me" look.


sounds like you are doing great thumb
Petting the outside of the pouch is a perfect start, and you don't have stick your hand all the way in the pouch to start. Just rest it at the opening so she gets used to you and then gradually advance your hand inside over time. Remember, they are intuitive little creatures and will pick up on your apprehension, so take some deep breaths and just relax. When I first did this with Loki he would sometimes lunge at my fingers, but after he ran into a finger full of yummy yogurt a couple of times he discovered my hand and eventually the rest of me wasn't such a bad thing. hug2
_________________________
--==Kevin==--
Suggie-Daddy to Willow, Wicket, and Loki
:grey: :grey: :plat:


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#1166821 - 08/27/11 03:08 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
your doing awesome, I would take out her cage pouch and hold it, if she does crab, then gently hold it against you, hum silent night.. if she doesn't calm down, don't make her stay in it.. try it again at a later date.


you are doing okay..

and in the calming words I use... (this is for you) Everything is going to be alright....

Don't worry, you will make mistakes. we all have... and that is OKAY !! they are very forgiving.. just when you have setbacks... just go back to what last worked for you..

good luck to you and your new baby..


Edited by Bourbon (08/27/11 03:10 PM)
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1166895 - 08/27/11 09:06 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: Bourbon]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
your doing awesome, I would take out her cage pouch and hold it, if she does crab, then gently hold it against you, hum silent night.. if she doesn't calm down, don't make her stay in it.. try it again at a later date.


you are doing okay..

and in the calming words I use... (this is for you) Everything is going to be alright....

Don't worry, you will make mistakes. we all have... and that is OKAY !! they are very forgiving.. just when you have setbacks... just go back to what last worked for you..

good luck to you and your new baby..


Thankyou. It's one thing to say everything is going to be ok, to myself -- (it never works) but its another to have a caring person such as yourself tell me.

Today, I've been going in there a few times, just gently petting the outside -- I haven't taken it out of the cage. I'd go in there though, telling her how much I love her (I added a bunch of new toys for her to explore with tonight) It's 9:15 now, I'm just waiting for her to wake up. She's been in there all day.

I'm nervous, but not so much as before. Little by little.
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1166924 - 08/27/11 10:20 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
MissSarah Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 3039
Loc: Bristol, Va
Oh, have I ever been in your shoes!

I liken bringing my first glider home to bringing home my first daughter. I read all the baby books, (research), I decided on whether to nurse or bottle-feed (diet), bought and put together her crib (cage), and bought clothes and baby equipment (pouches, toys, tent).

But nothing could prepare me for the moment when I actually held that innocent little life in my hands. I had never felt such an overwhelming mixture of love, fear, and anxiety in my life.

It was the exact same feeling with my first glider, Dexter. Oh, I loved him something fierce and still do. I looked into those deep nocturnal eyes and it felt like we had this sublime understanding that it was written in the stars that he was mine and I was just as much his. I was sooo nervous with him. I asked a million questions over and over in the beginning, but with time we became the loves of each other's lives. heart When he passed, I wanted to die right along side him.

As far as bites go, for me it's always been more about the anxiety of being bitten than the actual act. It usually hurts my feelings more than my fingers. laugh

You're doing such an awesome job and I can tell you love that baby very much! Just take a deep breath and relax! If you're stressed, shes going to feel it. Take it a day at a time and just enjoy the presence of your sweet, amazing baby. heart
_________________________
Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)


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#1166934 - 08/27/11 11:12 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
amelia Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 07/14/11
Posts: 650
Loc: Illinois, US
I'm really new to this too, so I don't want to give you advice that might be wrong but I DO think you're doing amazing.
Being scared is normal. I was terrified! I cried, too. you're not alone in this :]

There's SO MUCH help here. I'm glad you found this site before getting her.

I'm excited for you. Like I said, I'm new. But I sit near the cage when I'm doing anything and everything at home. If I take a phone call, I sit by the cage to talk(unless it's an angry call haha). When I do homework or read or even playing the laptop, I'm next to the cage. I talk to mine ALL THE TIME and they know I'm there with them. It counts as building the trust even when you're busy with other things.
_________________________
:grey: Trixie (R. 7/12/11 @ 2 yrs)
:grey: Zane (R. 8/21/11 @ 5 mo.)

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#1166941 - 08/27/11 11:26 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
josefine Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 2713
Loc: Perry, Iowa
MissSarah,I'm glad that your bites hurt your feelings worse than your fingers,b/c they hurt my fingers for weeks!!
I was constantly sticking my fingers into the peroxide bottle.
I lost so much blood,I didn't think my system was going to be able to work fast enough to replace what I lost!!!
Eventually,the bites did stop,& pretty soon you forget all about them,until you get new gliders again.
Oh do those bites hurt!!! You forgot how they can hang on to your finger!! Pretty soon,the bites stop,from these babies,too.
Then,you get your 3rd set of new ones,& we go thru it all over again!!!
I have come to the conclusion,that these bites are like labor pains,while you are going thru them,& the birth itself,too,& you swear you are never going to do this again!
I've had 3 human children,& each time it was like I forgot what it was like to go thru all that pain,b/c knowing the love that follows makes it all worth it.
I am a total woos,I know. I will probably stop complaing of the biting phases once I no longer have that phase to go thru anymore.
I don't know if I would really ever want to stop that phase.
_________________________
Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com

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#1166948 - 08/27/11 11:54 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
MissSarah Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 3039
Loc: Bristol, Va
Originally Posted By: josefine
MissSarah,I'm glad that your bites hurt your feelings worse than your fingers,b/c they hurt my fingers for weeks!!


lol Well, I say that, but I've never truly been chomped down on. I've gotten nips, but never had blood drawn. With all the gliders I've had, I've tried not to put them in the position that they feel like they need to bite to protect themselves. When I work on bonding, I move at a snail's pace and if my glider isn't okay with me petting him/her, I don't do it. I try to read them like a book and anticipate the way they're going to react.

So far, it's worked well for me. Dora has been a little nippy-nipperson and while it's been uncomfortable, I've never gotten a true bite.
_________________________
Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)


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#1166956 - 08/28/11 12:16 AM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
Abbey Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 183
Loc: Spartanburg, SC, USA
AliceDoll you ARE doing amazing. You are listening to your baby and you are trying to do what's right for her. I feel your pain about being fearful and not wanting to do anything to scare them. I am a converted Bourbonite. She helped me with my girls' severe bonding issues. I think Bourbon sometimes would get frustrated with me because I moved so slow with my girls cause I didn't want to upset them roflmao. As far as crying, oh honey, one night I looked at my girls while they were crabbing in their cage (before I worked with Bourbon) and I burst into tears and told them that my dogs have never treated me like this!! shakehead. Silly me. Things will get better and you absolutely will make progress with your sweet girl. Just keep telling her how much you love her, everything's going to be ok. Rachel sounds like a wonderful support system grin. Keep us updated on your progress with her!
_________________________
Amanda

Proud mommy of:
Abbey and Lady--Blonde Cocker Spaniels
&
Ophelia (Ofi) :grey: Mairead (Mai) :grey: Yoda :grey:
Nymphadora (Nym) :wfb: Chewee :grey:
Madam Rosmerta (Rose) :grey:

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#1166963 - 08/28/11 12:56 AM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
GliderAli Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 117
Loc: South Carolina
AliceDoll, keep up the good work. I would suggest going into the cage often during the day while she's sleeping and just petting the outside of the cage pouch and telling her the same thing "everything's gonna be ok" so that she gets used to being touched from the outside. If she doesn't crab, then try reaching in the top of the cage pouch and move slowly towards her. If she crabs, then pull away a little bit. All the while keep saying "everything's gonna be ok". If she doesn't crab (or lunge or bite), then go ahead and pet her - slowly and gently. Or even just let your hand lay in the pouch next to her so she can smell you and get used to you. Do this for a few days before moving onto the next step, which is petting with more "gusto" so to speak.

keep us posted!
_________________________
Ali Grondski

Wife, Mother to beautiful 6-year old girl, Brooke
2 dogs, and 6 gliders:
Diamond & Ringo
Boo-Boo & Pumpkin
Flower & Powder

www.gliderali.com

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#1166965 - 08/28/11 01:01 AM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
Thankyou everyone for your support! It really helps, knowing people are here for me -- Sarah, you make me feel so much better. I can say I feel the same way too -- about the bites. I've sewn my hand through an industrial sewing machine before lol. It's more the fact that I'd be causing it, that hurts.

.... I'm hoping to skip a 'biting' phase, though. I don't want to EVER give her a reason to bite me or be scared of me.

Today was I think successful, I have my doubts -- since I got mixed reactions.. maybe you can tell me what you think?

I feel as though, when she's out of the pouch -- she is completely indifferent. I am neither really interesting nor important. She will look at me, occasionally, but really she's got her own agenda and is minding her own business.

I thought, today, I could try and be a little more engaging than the occasional treat, like I did last night.

I would never really touch her, but really I'd go to the place she was at. (my cage has double doors, so I've been switching on and off between them. I placed some new toys I made at the top of the cage -- showing her the toys was a lot of fun. She'll take things from me easily now, even let me poke her a little (I'm sneaky about it -- but she never really seems to mind -- more of a I'm just gonna scoot around your way kind of thing)

I really want her to get used my hand, or being on it -- I feel like, if she's not scared of my big ol' hand, that maybe when it comes to the pouch, she won't be so...grouchy.

I took tissue paper, and crinkled the noise inside the cage. For over an hour, we played with it together -- It worked out pretty well considering she would climb about half way on my palm to get the paper -- and would chase it about.

I was really proud of her, and myself -- because we have gone from finger tips, to full fingers, to half of a palm. She'll grab my finger to see if I've got something -- and she'll do squishy yogies or take new toys from my hands, or take things from me (I'm sure by now, she knows I'll pretty much give her anything she wants shakehead )

(I'm a little concerned since she's not really eating any of her food food, that I put out. I'm hoping she'll come around and not be so picky, since I'm essentially starting at 0 trying to figure out what she likes/dislikes)

Anyway, after a while she climbed into the bonding pouch that I exchanged earlier. I called out to her and started to gently pet her through the pouch.

That's when the crabbing started, and let me tell you, it's loud. I will admit I got a little startled. She tried to nip me through the fabric (just once). I just told her that I loved her and I was sorry for startling her, and continued to do what I was doing. The intervals between crabs, became less and less -- I think she eventually fell asleep.

By switching the pouch (which, I'll keep on there for a long while now) -- I'm hoping that tomorrow during the day I can just hold it on my lap while she sleeps.

I'm really nervous about this though -- she's fine with me outside the cage, but whenever it comes to her pouch its crabbing. I haven't really been close enough to notice if there's any lunging with it, like what happened last time, but I can hear the crab, loud and clear.


When I think about it, I can understand why though. frown Her pouch is her safe place. It's warm, soft, enclosed. Nothing can get to her unless stuck through the top. She has the power in there -- I can understand why she doesn't want to share it with me yet.

I know she doesn't trust me. She's a little less wary, tonight. I could move and not have her skitter to the other side of the cage. I could put my hands wherever and she'd just ignore me and let me do whatever (though sometimes if I'm in her way, she'll go the opposite direction) She'll respond to my voice when I call her name by looking straight at me.

From yesterday, I can see the improvement, and what we need to work on. I'm wondering if I should have a few more days of just this -- not bothering her during the day, and playing with her at night, or if by taking the bonding pouch and just holding it near me (not maybe even like, touching it, but just keeping it on my lap) -- would help to reinforce that connection?

This is where I'm getting a little lost at still.

I get so confused sometimes, since when reading through the forum, every bonding relationship is different. What do I try? What do I do? Am I just thinking too hard on this -- or making it more difficult than it has to be???
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1166966 - 08/28/11 01:08 AM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: GliderAli]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: GliderAli
AliceDoll, keep up the good work. I would suggest going into the cage often during the day while she's sleeping and just petting the outside of the cage pouch and telling her the same thing "everything's gonna be ok" so that she gets used to being touched from the outside. If she doesn't crab, then try reaching in the top of the cage pouch and move slowly towards her. If she crabs, then pull away a little bit. All the while keep saying "everything's gonna be ok". If she doesn't crab (or lunge or bite), then go ahead and pet her - slowly and gently. Or even just let your hand lay in the pouch next to her so she can smell you and get used to you. Do this for a few days before moving onto the next step, which is petting with more "gusto" so to speak.

keep us posted!


The cage I got for her is super tall -- taller than me (I'm only 5'5/6 though) -- Where her pouch is hanging, I can't really stick my hand in -- I don't see her at all, even on my tippy toes (the cage is also pretty wide, so it's even harder to stick my hand/arm in there at all.

During the day, all I've been doing is going in there every 20-30 minutes or so, and petting her gently. I doubt though that she must have felt me since the first pouch (the cage one I made for her) was fleece with a fleece lining, so it was pretty bulky. This new bonding pouch is only one layer of fleece so I can actually feel her through the pouch. If I can feel her, Then for sure she can feel me -- which is probably what started the crabbing tonight.

I'll try and take a picture of the cage tonight, (since she's in the pouch now, I don't think it'll bother her too much to turn the light on for a minute) so you can see where the placement is.
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1166969 - 08/28/11 01:13 AM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: Abbey]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: Abbey
Rachel sounds like a wonderful support system grin. Keep us updated on your progress with her!


Rachel is amazing -- I'm so lucky to have her as a best friend. She's very confident and really good with animals. She's been rescuing everything under the sun for years now. In fact, we had a horrible storm the other night, and she literally jumped in a storm drain to save two kittens. She's that kind of amazing.

and I will -- I think, I'll try and write something up a every night until we get somewhere (or so that if someone can warn me before hand before messing up @_@)
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1166971 - 08/28/11 01:19 AM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
I apologize for the blurryness -- I want to do it quickly, so I just used my phone.

_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1166980 - 08/28/11 03:38 AM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Alice, just continue what you are doing... you two will have a great relationship.. It doesn't sound like you are going to have any special problems, and the 2 of you will be together before you know it..

at night be interactive with her while she is awake, offer her some blueberry yogurt on a spoon only a little bit, let her lick it three times then redip and offer it again, redip offer it again each time only letting her lick it 3 times. always stay 2 inches below and 2 inches in front of her so she has to come to you.
This will teach her to come to you.

TIP.....

Go slow but Be more confidant with her. she will sense any apprehension you feel...give yourself the credit for doing what your doing, but most of all trust yourself.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1167084 - 09/02/11 08:37 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
Since there was a power outage (thank goodness everyone is OK now!), I haven't been able to update on here -- so far I think I'm making some progress. I feel as though, the past few days have been a blur -- and today marks the end of a full week since I've had her.

I've been taking things very slow -- too slow according to some, however I feel like bourbon stated, it's giving me time to read her and for her to read me. We're not anywhere close to where we need to be, but things are definitely better than what they were. We've come to a sort of understanding, of sorts, where she regards me cooly and where I act as the all powerful treat-dispenser.

That Sunday (8/28), I held the pouch (closed) for several hours. At night, I played with her like regularly would. Each day, and night she would be a little more responsive. For three days, I would hold the pouch a little bit longer than before, always close to my heart. At one point, I actually got really scared, because I kept hearing this.. almost soft popping noise, like little bubbles being popped. I was scared it was some kind of upper respiratory infection -- however I called my breeder friend, and she assured me it was probably nothing to be worried about since she only did it while she was sleeping. She doesn't seem uncomfortable when she does it, but I still worry.

On Thursday, I tried something a little new. This time instead of leaving the pouch closed, I opened it. I would just kinda peek in there, she'd look up at me and go back to sleep! No crabbing. Later that day, I tried actually putting my hand in there -- she was almost ready to crab until she saw the yogie in my hand -- once she had her treat she was fine. I just kinda left my hand in there, not moving it, just leaving it on one side of the pouch. When she was ready to go back to sleep, she'd kinda go to the complete opposite side of where my hand was. When she was fully asleep I'd inch a little bit closer to her until my hand was fully touching her in some way. When she'd wake up, we'd start the process all over again.

Today it was the same deal. However she eventually would just kinda snuggle into my hand. You can imagine, I was extremely happy. She's beautiful -- and does the cutest things while she sleeps. I held her from 10:30 am to about 4:30pm. (6 hours! man, my hand smelled pretty strongly for a long while, lol)



Our interaction has been getting better at night too (I think, it comes and goes in waves to be honest). First she started with looking at my hands and fingers, then by grabbing digits (once known that there were no treats, she'd scurry away), now a full week later, she'll crawl on the back of my hand, or in my palm and eat quietly there.


I feel though, now -- other than my sneaking during the day time, that our relationship is kinda hitting a plateau, neither rising nor falling (which is good, I guess).
She's becoming more...energetic (???) at night -- and possibly a little more aggressive with her surroundings. The poor little plastic ladder was pretty much ripped apart last night, as well (she tried, anyway) the binding of her ball pit. It's almost like she's going into a chewing frenzy -- and I'm a little worried about what I should do to alleviate her.


Do gliders go through a teething phase?

Somehow, I feel as though I need to get her out of the cage more. We had an episode earlier this week -- where something spooked her (I'm guessing my hair dryer) and she looked so scared and lost, that I took her out of the cage and she got scared again and ran around the room. Eventually I was able to catch her -- and she was fine with me afterwards, but I was such a wreck that I was scared to even try taking her pouch out -- but now that I look back and think on it -- it's almost like she's as scared now about being outside, as I am --

Like I said, we're OK inside the cage, we can play, and I can interact with her (somewhat) and give her treats like its going out of style -- but ....

How can she learn to see me (other than my hands) as a safe place, if she never gets the chance to be on me, or run around?? I wonder if I'm ready now, for tent time --- Can anyone shed some light on this? Am I thinking too soon??

I apologize if this post seems a little rushed, it's almost 9pm, and I have to get her food ready for 10. (How is it that I cook for her more than I cook for me? LOL She eats better than I do!)
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1167085 - 09/02/11 08:41 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: Bourbon]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: Bourbon

TIP.....

Go slow but Be more confidant with her. she will sense any apprehension you feel...give yourself the credit for doing what your doing, but most of all trust yourself.


It's amazing, the more time I spend with her, the more I notice that she can feel what I'm feeling, even if I'm trying to hide it. It's almost like she's mimicking me, in that sense.

Trusting myself, is something I'm definitely trying to work on -- being with out you, and the rest of GC has been hard. lol.
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1167089 - 09/02/11 09:02 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
fox0r Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 1061
Loc: Meridian, ID
You're doing EXCELLENT! Her climbing on your hands is a GREAT thing. Her sleeping with your hands is a GREAT thing too!

I would attempt tent time. If she clearly doesn't like it, of course, put her back in her cage.

I wonder if she was purring. Skip to 1:12.

If so, that is AWESOME!

Seriously, girlie, don't worry so much! You're doing great!
_________________________
-Jen

Sugar Mountain - Sugar gliders in Idaho!

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#1167091 - 09/02/11 09:04 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
fox0r Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 1061
Loc: Meridian, ID
Oh, also, my quad tears up the cage every night. toys will be all over, sometimes hanging ones will be knocked down.

I think they think it is funny I have to clean it up every day! LOL
_________________________
-Jen

Sugar Mountain - Sugar gliders in Idaho!

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#1167096 - 09/02/11 09:24 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
xSwtxSugaX Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/21/10
Posts: 3456
Loc: Saint Louis MO
Alicedoll,

I dont know you. I have never spoken with you, or met you. Never gotten the opprotunity to cross your graces, but I know you all too well. Your are just like me. Bourbon speaks of telling them that everything will be ok... but I feel like It should be said to you. Sweetie.. everything is going to be ok! Your doing great! Some gliders can come into a home and be completely ok. Some will crab and lunge and bite! Ive had one of each. Ive gotten bit by all of them but my baby is our second glider. Our first glider just LOVES my boyfriend. I bought her for him for his birthday, and altho she can get along with about anyone... she wont let me hold her or pick her up without giving me a warning nip. About a month after getting her.. we saw changes in her that were obvious. She chewed all her toys to shreds. ANd when we got her out she would just sit in one place like a statue. In her cage she would run around the top and do flips. She was stressed, and lonely. I wanted to get her a friend and Fell inlove with button when I saw her picture. I was so excited and so scared! It was almost a 4 hour drive to the breeders house and we I saw how small and fragile she was I instantly got butterflies!! Ive never seen such a small, amazingly beautiful baby! I fell in love instantly. But she didnt feel the same way. She crabbed the whole way home. She made a run for it when we got home and climbed up our brick wall. She lunged at me and even broke out of her cage and sent us on a goos chase to find her. For months you couldnt open the pouch without her crabbing like crazy!

I can happily say.. that she doesnt make a peep now. Its been almost a year and the only time she crabbs is when my boyfriend opens the pouch! I think me and her bonded better with licky treats. She would crab and go to bite my finger and find yumminess. As she licked or chewed she would crab/squeek/eat. lol Its the funniest thing to watch her go through such mixed emotions. I would take her pouch and stick it in my tank top where she could easily see me and be close. if she decided she didnt wanna see me that day I would roll the top down and pet her from the outside of the pouch. If she was curious and interested in me I would rest my fingers at the top and let her come to me.

It takes time, you will have good days and bad days. If you feel like shes ready to try tent time then try it. But if she freaks out.. take her out and wait another week. Its nothing to be forced. Do you have toys with foraging cups and such? Keeping her busy at night should help with the chewing. Stitch chewed through everything when she was bored. Move the toys around and switch them out abunch if u have to, but always keep acouple things in there with her scent on them.

Also the popping sound while she is sleeping is nothing to be worried about. Even when they are awake sometimes as long as they dont seem sickly. Ours do it when they are content and happy smile Kinda like a cat purring. smile

If you ever need someone to speak with you are more than welcome to PM me, text me or call me. Ive been in your shoes... we all have! But im more than willing to reach out and help u when u need the extra assurance!
_________________________
"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

*Stitch* :grey: *Button* :wfb: *Charlie* :leu:

Cats: Rista and Cali

~*Stacie*~

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#1167102 - 09/02/11 09:44 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: xSwtxSugaX]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: fox0r
Oh, also, my quad tears up the cage every night. toys will be all over, sometimes hanging ones will be knocked down.

I think they think it is funny I have to clean it up every day! LOL


I always kinda wonder what kind of party she has when I go to sleep. How can one glider make such a mess! Lol

Originally Posted By: xSwtxSugaX
Alicedoll,

Do you have toys with foraging cups and such? Keeping her busy at night should help with the chewing. Stitch chewed through everything when she was bored. Move the toys around and switch them out abunch if u have to, but always keep acouple things in there with her scent on them.

Also the popping sound while she is sleeping is nothing to be worried about. Even when they are awake sometimes as long as they dont seem sickly. Ours do it when they are content and happy smile Kinda like a cat purring. smile

If you ever need someone to speak with you are more than welcome to PM me, text me or call me. Ive been in your shoes... we all have! But im more than willing to reach out and help u when u need the extra assurance!


Thankyou so much for your support! ;__; It makes me feel really glad to know there are such kind people like you out there. I feel much better already! smile

I don't have any toys with cups on them, but she does have a ball pit, treasure chests, and like skewers that I sometimes hang fruit and other things on. I'm looking into making her more things, I know she really likes the foraging stuff much more than some of the other noise-maker toys.

And thank goodness! She doesn't seem sick at all -- The sound is similar to the one in that video, but more spaced out.
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1167172 - 09/03/11 01:26 AM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
So... the more I read, and considering what happened tonight, I think I may definitely need some kind of tent time or something. Minnie is a good girl -- and she gets more curious with me every day, but today she was smart and crawled off my arm onto the side of the cage (outside) she crawled all around the outside of the cage for about 15 minutes of freedom, all the while giving me a bad case of acid reflux.

I didn't grab for her though, as much as I wanted to, but I did kinda just watch her and lead her to the inside of the cage.

She's fine, and I'm not fine lol -- I think I'm just going to go to bed for tonight though -- zantac and tums for me.

I'll start fresh in the morning


Edited by AliceDoll (09/03/11 01:27 AM)
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1167447 - 09/03/11 09:33 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
xobeautifuluvox
Unregistered


Great bonding so far! Your story is def going to help me bond with my new baby boy I'm going to take things extra slow. You have tons of patience! She already loves you, i'm sure!

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#1167500 - 09/03/11 11:39 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: ]
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 355
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: xobeautifuluvox
Great bonding so far! Your story is def going to help me bond with my new baby boy I'm going to take things extra slow. You have tons of patience! She already loves you, i'm sure!


I'm trying to go slow! I'm glad though that my experiences can help someone else -- though I'm really not that experienced or anything. frown

And I'm not sure about love yet, but she tolerates me lol -- and that's such a huge step over from where we were last week, that I'm content with that for now. smile Little by little.
_________________________
:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto

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#1167503 - 09/03/11 11:44 PM Re: Long Post ahead -- Getting over being scared? [Re: AliceDoll]
heidi Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/08/09
Posts: 1661
Loc: conway south carolina/ us
you are doing a great job ....keep up the good work
_________________________
"promise me you'll always remeber:you're braver than you believe,and stronger than you seem,and smarter than you think" christopher robin to pooh

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