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#1201923 - 12/08/11 07:33 AM Giardia
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
It's just one thing after the other..this is insane. My boy was taken to the vet and they ran a fecal test on him since he had a prolapsed "manhood". They said they thought they saw something weird and they would call me back. Well, I ended up having to call them back and they said "It's giardia. It's pretty common. That's why you were sent home with the flagyl". Maverick has been on it for 2 days now, but before he was seperated he was housed with 3 other gliders. I have to assume they have it too. I have enough medication for all of them, but what should I do?!
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1201925 - 12/08/11 07:44 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Thankfully, we have never had it here in our house. But...I know it can be difficult to get rid of. Chances are good, if he was housed with three others, that they have it too. Either way, they should be treated (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this one).

There's a rather extensive protocol for getting rid of it. You'll need to clean like you've never cleaned before. lol Bleach ALL cage items and try to use less things in the cage to minimize transfer of the Giardia. Giardia spreads rapidly by poor hygiene (gliders aren't always the best for this lol) and is a "poop to mouth" problem. A glider comes in contact with poop and it grooms itself, or another or comes in contact with contaminated food/water. It's a vicious cycle. I'd use bottled water for now and you can also use a cage cover so that things are a bit more contained. Just remember that you will need to also wash that daily.

Use gloves when you clean - Giardia CAN be spread to humans, as well so it's important you use good hygiene as you clean, as well. And, be sure to wash well and change clothes after you've come in contact with the cage and/or gliders that are affected.

If you have other gliders in your home that have NOT been exposed - keep them in a separate room and do a very, very strict quarantine procedure.
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Aimee & The Monkeys

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#1201927 - 12/08/11 07:47 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
I have fosters that have not been in contact with them, but I may take them for a vet visit in case something happened...thank you
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1201934 - 12/08/11 08:14 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
The biggest issue with Giardia is the spread when other gliders come in contact with the feces of another. So, if you are very careful to change clothes, wash hands, etc. and not allow the fosters ANY contact at all with anything that has been contaminated, chances are good that you can keep it away from them. Having them tested is very good practice and should be done but hopefully, you won't have trouble.

Sorry you're having to go through this.
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1201937 - 12/08/11 08:23 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
It's just hard news on top of Maverick's problem, but thank you.


Edited by BlackDrappa (12/08/11 08:25 AM)
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1201941 - 12/08/11 08:33 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
It is, but it's not the end of the world - you can get rid of it. You just really have to be vigilant about cleaning and it adds some extras on to your day but you'll get through it. smile

Good luck!
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www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1201943 - 12/08/11 08:40 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
oh...just call me the cleaning machine from now on! I'm going to get them bottle water as well. And a new water bottle just to be safe (maybe a silo). Do you know the bleach to water ratio for cleaning the cage?
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1201944 - 12/08/11 08:44 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
I don't know that there really is a ratio and like I said, I haven't ever had to deal with this in my home. There are others who have so hopefully, as the day goes on, they can come in with some other tips for you and more definitive answers on how to deal with it.
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www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1201951 - 12/08/11 08:54 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Ok, well thanks for you advice to far! It's helped me calm down a lot. This is doable! And they all are acting normal and are hydrated so that's a BIG plus as well.
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1201953 - 12/08/11 08:55 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
It IS doable and not the end of the world. An inconvenience, yes and it IS something you have to take very seriously because if it's not taken care of, they can become very ill. But you can beat it. smile
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Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1201985 - 12/08/11 10:09 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Yes, the other gliders will need to be dosed as well BUT, because their weights will be different, call your vet with the exact weight of each and get a dosage specific for each glider.

I've been thru treating for giardia before. It's a pain but as Aimee said, it's very treatable and doable.

I used two hospital cages (they're only 3' tall instead of 5' and easier for me to clean) and two sets of cage stuff (wheels, toys, feeding dishes, water bottle, pouches, etc.) Each morning, I would medicate the gliders and put them into the "clean" cage. I then sprayed the cage, wheel and toys with bleach, let them all set in the tub for 10 minutes, then sprayed clean with hot water for 5 minutes. I set the cage and contents outside to air dry. In the evening, I would switch the gliders to the clean cage and follow the same cleaning procedure for the one I just took them out of.

I soaked their sleeping pouches in hot soapy bleach water until the water cooled, then hand washed them before putting them into the washer. Definitely dry in the dryer instead of air dry, as this helps kill the giardia.

It helps immensely to have no fleece toys in either cage while you're treating for giardia.

Be sure to do follow up fecals, as giardia is difficult to catch. I'm so glad your vet caught it in time!
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#1201986 - 12/08/11 10:12 AM Re: Giardia [Re: suggiemom1980]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Originally Posted By: suggiemom1980
Yes, the other gliders will need to be dosed as well BUT, because their weights will be different, call your vet with the exact weight of each and get a dosage specific for each glider.


Yes! Yes! Yes! Thank you, Connie, for pointing that out - I didn't even think to mention that. shakehead This is VERY important!
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Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1201988 - 12/08/11 10:19 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
They're calling me later with an estimate on an amputation so I will ask them about dosage then. I unfortunately don't have an extra cage, so I guess I will just clean it every day.

Did you use colar safe bleach for the pouches?
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1201992 - 12/08/11 10:26 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
I used regular bleach and pouches that I didn't care if they got bleached out or not. Because I have so many gliders, each cage has a zippered bonding pouch in case I need to grab all gliders and head for the hills (or basement)! I do have sleeping pouches that I use when getting gliders ready to go to new homes and for the hospital cages.

If you don't want to take a chance of ruining your pouches, get some c-links, poke a hole in each corner of a piece of fleece, run the c-links thru the holes and hang the fleece as you would a hammock. If it gets bleached out, it won't bother you as it would of it was one of your sleeping pouches. smile
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#1201996 - 12/08/11 10:31 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
1 part bleach to 10 parts water... dont throw your fleece straight into the washing machine as all that will do is spread the eggs around to subsequent loads, I recommend boiling for 10 minutes (depending on the virulence of the strain I have seen eggs still viable at the 8 minute mark)..
Giardia loves moisture but hates direct sunlight, it can live in soil for months/years.. I allow all things to dry in the sunlight
Items that cant be boiled will need to soak in hot water bleach bath for 20-30 minutes and then direct sunlight (move around every few hours to make sure the sun hits ever little area)
a good steam cleaner will cut your cleaning time down remarkably

another key to successfully treat Giardia is allowing the proper time to go by before re-testing... Giardia is extremely stealthy, an animals immune system can keep the numbers down to unmeasurable numbers until a stessor takes place to lower the immune system and then the Giardia is able to take back over, so from the last day of treatment until re-testing for it, I reccommend waiting 21 days, that is the life cycle of most parasites, meaning its 21 days from hatching until the adult larva are mature enough to start producing eggs...

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#1202001 - 12/08/11 10:38 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
rach Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 10/26/11
Posts: 360
Loc: Southern Illinois
Man I hope my gliders never get this as it seems so hard to get rid of.
_________________________
Raychell Stayton
My gangel :wfb: Daria :grey: Maddox :rtmo: Nadia :grey: Sampson

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#1202004 - 12/08/11 10:41 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
Here is a treatment protocol that has proven very effective in ridding the problem, if you go down to where we are discussing it, you will see where I mention Giardia taking a longer overall time and why

http://thesweetspot.forumotion.net/t295-proper-protocol-to-effectively-treat-a-parasite-infestation

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#1202009 - 12/08/11 10:50 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
The only problem with the cleaning is that I can't leave anything out to dry today...it's 30 degrees out and everything will freeze. frown
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1202011 - 12/08/11 10:53 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
Metronidazole (Flagyl) has a high risk of toxicity to sugar gliders, as the body is slow to bio-transform it is stored in the fat cells and leached back in for biotransformation, if the doses are to big it will dump suddenly and that causes a whole host of issues, from shut down of the major organs to seizures and even death... its imperitive to make sure your vet has all weights to accurately dose it

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#1202012 - 12/08/11 10:54 AM Re: Giardia [Re: Chris_R]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Originally Posted By: Chris_R
1 part bleach to 10 parts water... dont throw your fleece straight into the washing machine as all that will do is spread the eggs around to subsequent loads, I recommend boiling for 10 minutes (depending on the virulence of the strain I have seen eggs still viable at the 8 minute mark)..
Giardia loves moisture but hates direct sunlight, it can live in soil for months/years.. I allow all things to dry in the sunlight
Items that cant be boiled will need to soak in hot water bleach bath for 20-30 minutes and then direct sunlight (move around every few hours to make sure the sun hits ever little area)
a good steam cleaner will cut your cleaning time down remarkably

another key to successfully treat Giardia is allowing the proper time to go by before re-testing... Giardia is extremely stealthy, an animals immune system can keep the numbers down to unmeasurable numbers until a stessor takes place to lower the immune system and then the Giardia is able to take back over, so from the last day of treatment until re-testing for it, I reccommend waiting 21 days, that is the life cycle of most parasites, meaning its 21 days from hatching until the adult larva are mature enough to start producing eggs...

Chris, thank you so much for giving this information!

It's been years since I had to deal with giardia and that was what my vet told me to do at the time. Since then, she and I have both learned so much about gliders, but neither of us has had to deal with giardia in them again, so we didn't check on an updated method.

Eddie, maybe we could make a sticky from this information???
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#1202014 - 12/08/11 10:58 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
I have known people to buy UV lights (grow lights) that did not have outside areas to get everything dried properly, the key is it will need a few hours in each position to make sure all areas (esp corners etc) get the light..

You can boil your pouches/fleece items and then wash and dry them in the dryer, the boiling will kill the ova/cysts (ie eggs)

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#1202019 - 12/08/11 11:04 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Ok, thank you. So is it likely that the first round of meds won't do it then?

Edited to add: It's just funny that my vet said it's common and very easy to treat...didn't say anything about cleaning..just to medicate.


Edited by BlackDrappa (12/08/11 11:09 AM)
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1202029 - 12/08/11 11:32 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
clreaves07 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/10/11
Posts: 220
Loc: Alabama
How do gliders contract giardia? Reason being, mine don't have contact with anything outside of their cage except for me. Is it possible to have it on you and pass it to the gliders?
_________________________
Candy

Slave owner to Alvin, Minnie, and Honey.

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#1202033 - 12/08/11 11:48 AM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Would the heat of a hair dryer kill the eggs?
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1202048 - 12/08/11 12:52 PM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
Thumper Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Cincy
Chris-Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's been a while since I did any research in this area but when I did I was under the impression that treatment (meds & cleaning) was done for 5 days then off for 3 and repeated until the follow up tests come back negative. Retesting done every 2 weeks? On the cleaning, I was also under the impression that items (incl cages) should be soaked for a minimum of 20-30 minutes then rinsed well.

clreaves07-You can pick up giardia and pass it on to your animals. This is one reason why it's so important to wash hands often.

BlackDrappa-I really don't think the heat from a hair dryer is hot enough to kill the eggs. There are some steam cleaners that claim they can disinfect but I don't trust them myself. Some people do though.
_________________________
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#1202074 - 12/08/11 01:57 PM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
This is all very confusing. There is only so much to do because the room the gliders are in has a rug and I only have the cages that the gliders are in. I'm throwing out their old tent because it's a piece of junk anyways. I'm going to do the soaking of the cage and the boiling of the pouches, toys, etc. I'm just concerned because my one glider, Maverick, is in a soft sided, pvc, mesh dog kennel for now until his prolapse heals. And probably for a couple extra days since he is a couple days ahead of the treatment of my other three...I'm wondering if it will clean properly. frown
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1202078 - 12/08/11 02:12 PM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
Thumper Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Cincy
I've soaked my pop up dog kennels in bleach/water too.
_________________________
Bobbi

:wfb: :leu: :grey: :rtmo: Jade, Kea, JimBob, Topaz, Sunny, Bruce, Selena, Harlan, Airyelle, George, Gracie and Pugsley.

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#1202079 - 12/08/11 02:14 PM Re: Giardia [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Ok, that's a relief. Thank you so much.
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1202084 - 12/08/11 02:27 PM Re: Giardia [Re: Thumper]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
Originally Posted By: Thumper
Chris-Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's been a while since I did any research in this area but when I did I was under the impression that treatment (meds & cleaning) was done for 5 days then off for 3 and repeated until the follow up tests come back negative. Retesting done every 2 weeks? On the cleaning, I was also under the impression that items (incl cages) should be soaked for a minimum of 20-30 minutes then rinsed well.

clreaves07-You can pick up giardia and pass it on to your animals. This is one reason why it's so important to wash hands often.

BlackDrappa-I really don't think the heat from a hair dryer is hot enough to kill the eggs. There are some steam cleaners that claim they can disinfect but I don't trust them myself. Some people do though.


No, treatment for Giardia is with Flagyl for at least 7 but most of the time 10 days. The more resistant strains are requiring a combo treatment of Metronidazole (Flagyl) followed with 3-5 days of Panacur, then for accurate testing you need to wait 21 days from the last day of oral treatment drugs before testing, as before then the antibiotics/parasitics can produce a false negative as the numbers arent there to show positive

The heat from a blow dryer is not sufficient to kill Giardia cysts, as I stated above, with the virulent Colorado river basin outbreak, I observed cysts that were still viable after 8 minutes of boiling.....

Cysts are sticky, they adhere to just about everything they come in contact with, its very possible to say, walk your dog in a dog park and get some cysts on your shoes and take it home to your other animals

Giardia is zoonotic, it can spread from animals to humans and back again... It is VITAL to wash your hands, paying special attention to under nail area etc for the entire Twinkle Twinkle Little Star song (thats about the length of time for a proper hand washing)

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#1202125 - 12/08/11 04:47 PM Re: Giardia [Re: Chris_R]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Thank you Chris. Sorry, I'm just very clueless when it comes to this. I very much appreciate you expertise.
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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