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#1209099 - 12/27/11 08:30 AM Dominance vs. Aggression
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
I was just wondering the difference between displayed dominance and displayed aggression?

When my two males interact it looks like my one male is trying to establish his dominance which leads to fighting, but I wasn't sure if it was actually aggression. I'd like to know what a glider would do to display both before I say what my males are doing so I can get unbiased answers. Thank you!
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-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1209104 - 12/27/11 08:40 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Are they neutered? How old are they?

If they've matured and aren't neutered, they could be seriously fighting, which can lead to serious injury and even death.

If they're establishing dominance, you'll be able to distract them or break them apart, by saying no in a loud voice or by dragging a piece of fleece over them.
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SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#1209106 - 12/27/11 08:41 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
They are both neutered and have been since a young age. They have been housed together previously for 2 weeks with no problem. My one male, the previous dominant glider, had to be seperated for a couple weeks due to a prolapse. He is 1 and a half and the other male is 2 and a half and much larger.


Edited by BlackDrappa (12/27/11 08:42 AM)
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1209113 - 12/27/11 08:56 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Don't forget that there is a big difference between wrestling/establishing dominance and actually balled up fighting. Typically, dominance behavior will be one glider climbing on top of another glider. Gliders that are fighting will get into a little ball, and most often go for butts/feet and tails to inflict injury.
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#1209115 - 12/27/11 09:00 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: DCMuffin]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
Don't forget that there is a big difference between wrestling/establishing dominance and actually balled up fighting. Typically, dominance behavior will be one glider climbing on top of another glider. Gliders that are fighting will get into a little ball, and most often go for butts/feet and tails to inflict injury.


This is where I am confused though....Because Castiel, the bigger male, will climb on top of my smaller male and put his mouth around his head. He won't bite, but he looks like he is applying pressure. This caused Maverick, the smaller male, to crab and kick at him trying to get him off. They then ball up and tuffs of fur have been pulled out..but now injuries besides that. And it only lasts a few seconds or shorter if I make a loud noise or seperate them.
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1209116 - 12/27/11 09:03 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
It does sound to me like Castiel is playing the dominant role here - and if you can separate them, they still aren't actually fighting. When you are doing these intros with them, how are you doing it? Just Castiel and Maverick in the tent together? All of them?
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#1209119 - 12/27/11 09:05 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Originally Posted By: BlackDrappa
Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
Don't forget that there is a big difference between wrestling/establishing dominance and actually balled up fighting. Typically, dominance behavior will be one glider climbing on top of another glider. Gliders that are fighting will get into a little ball, and most often go for butts/feet and tails to inflict injury.


This is where I am confused though....Because Castiel, the bigger male, will climb on top of my smaller male and put his mouth around his head. He won't bite, but he looks like he is applying pressure. This caused Maverick, the smaller male, to crab and kick at him trying to get him off. They then ball up and tuffs of fur have been pulled out..but now injuries besides that. And it only lasts a few seconds or shorter if I make a loud noise or seperate them.

This is what makes me believe they're establishing dominance. It's really hard to watch but necessary for them to go thru. Just keep a close eye on them and make sure it doesn't escalate. Do check often for any injuries such as bite marks or sores from fur being pulled out.
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#1209121 - 12/27/11 09:08 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Ok, thank you. I just would hate to let them do it and then one of them be hurt. The most that's happened so far is the fur being pulled out and Maverick has been covered in saliva.

I know I should have gloves incase I have to pull them apart...anything else? Should I leave the girls out of the mix the whole time and bring them in later?
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1209123 - 12/27/11 09:10 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: DCMuffin]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
It does sound to me like Castiel is playing the dominant role here - and if you can separate them, they still aren't actually fighting. When you are doing these intros with them, how are you doing it? Just Castiel and Maverick in the tent together? All of them?


I've tried just the girls and then bringing Castiel in (bathroom) and I've also tried JUST the boys. They have been able to play in the bathroom away with each other just fine and they were even in the same pouch for a bit before Castiel tried mounting/mouthing Maverick again. Even then if they were on other ends of the pouch they were fine.
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1209124 - 12/27/11 09:10 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Agreed. As difficult as it is, it's important that we let gliders be gliders. That doesn't mean you have to just let them do their thing without any supervision or separation - but they DO need to work out issues amongst themselves. Our natural response is to jump in just as soon as something happens. This has an adverse effect on things and will actually sometimes make the gliders more nervous. One of the most important things when you're doing intros between gliders is to remain calm and confident. As easy as it sounds, many people aren't, and it can cause friction in the tent/bathroom. If you go in with a feeling of dread or that "this isn't going to work", then more than likely, it won't. Go in confident and let them feel that from you.
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#1209171 - 12/27/11 11:37 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
hypnotist321 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Mo
Hey BlackDrappa!!!!
Is one "looking for" this bring , or is it pretty spontaneous when they happen to be a the same place at the same time?



Edited by hypnotist321 (12/27/11 11:38 AM)
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Angela
Spike & Lola (mom and dad/neutered) OOP 2009
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Fancy & Stash (twins girl & boy/neutered) OOP 11/20/11

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#1209175 - 12/27/11 11:42 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: hypnotist321]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Originally Posted By: hypnotist321
Hey BlackDrappa!!!!
Is one "looking for" this bring , or is it pretty spontaneous when they happen to be a the same place at the same time?



They leave each other alone until they are right by each other and sometimes not even then. Maverick doesn't do anything until Castiel tries to get on his back and mouths his head. Then they fight...
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1209470 - 12/28/11 10:38 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
hypnotist321 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Mo
So Maverick is just telling Castiel to knock it off. Wonder what Castiel's behavior means? Mouth his head even... there's a girl in the cage, so even if he was neutered and feeling spunky... that's not the case is it?
_________________________
Angela
Spike & Lola (mom and dad/neutered) OOP 2009
Peek-A-Boo (joey #1) OOP 8/20/2011
Fancy & Stash (twins girl & boy/neutered) OOP 11/20/11

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#1209479 - 12/28/11 11:31 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: hypnotist321]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Originally Posted By: hypnotist321
So Maverick is just telling Castiel to knock it off. Wonder what Castiel's behavior means? Mouth his head even... there's a girl in the cage, so even if he was neutered and feeling spunky... that's not the case is it?


He is neutered, but from what I understand, that shows that Castiel is trying to dominate Maverick. From what I've been told if they don't like each other I would know for sure. They would fight without me being able to seperate them and not be able to be in the same room as each other or live for almost 3 weeks before Maverick's isolation just fine. I think Maverick being seperated messed up the social rankings and now Castiel has assumed the position of King of the Castle...and he's trying to put Maverick in his new place.

At least that's my opinion.
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1209617 - 12/28/11 06:47 PM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
:agreed:
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www.gliderchef.com

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#1210124 - 12/30/11 09:52 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Here are 2 videos, Aimee already saw them. They are just SO confusing! They are fine for awhile, and then the second video happens! Anyone who can tell me what Castiel is doing would be awesome!



_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1210128 - 12/30/11 10:02 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
pannonia Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 300
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
It looks to me as he is grooming the other's tail & than the other boy just has enough of that & lets him know. It doesn't seam to be aggression but rather just communication. It happened with my guys as well exactly the same way & now they are just fine. As long as they don't ball up & full on fight I don't think you should be concerned.
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#1210134 - 12/30/11 10:06 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: pannonia]
BlackDrappa Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 107
Loc: Hamburg, NY
Originally Posted By: pannonia
As long as they don't ball up & full on fight I don't think you should be concerned.


They somewhat do though frown There isn't any bitting, but Maverick will crab at Castiel, kick at him, and they will roll around in a ball. And then they are fine and will go to sleep together...and then when Castiel goes to groom him again (a little too rough in my opinion) they fight again...
_________________________
-*-Tiffany-*-

:grey: Maverick, :grey: Nike, :grey: Nyx & :wfb: Castiel

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#1210144 - 12/30/11 10:22 AM Re: Dominance vs. Aggression [Re: BlackDrappa]
pannonia Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 300
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Do you have multiple sleeping pouches in the cage? That helps them to give time out to each other. Keep an eye on them for injuries & only intervene when absolutely necessary. That's what I did & they worked out their differences. I know how hard it is to watch, but they have their own way to sort out problems. When injury occurs, should separate them & try reintroducing them slowly.
_________________________
Proud Mom to
:leu: Snow :rtmo: Flake :grey: Gustav :plat: Mercury :leu: Diamonelle , Piccolina :grey:
& my precious Miracle and Amoretto

www.torontosugarglider.com

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