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#122309 - 07/20/06 09:41 PM Massive Seizures
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
Tuesday i found Tegan at the bottom of her cage around 1pm, unable to move very much. she was calling out to me and at first i thought she might be dehydrated (although the water bottle was full and dimitri was just fine), she took a little water but didn't get any better. i tried corn syrup in case her sugar was low, but nothing improved. i knew she had had a few minor seizures when she was a joey, but i hadn't seen any since she was around 4 months old...she is now 9 months. she started having more classic signs of seizure, spreading out in her back and convulsing, arching her back and messing herself. i called the vet and they said to bring her in, but they were really busy with other emergencies. the first time my vet caught sight of tegan as he was moving from one exam room to the next, he came over to me, took one look at her, and said "she's having a seizure." he took her from me and disappeared into the back and i didn't hear anything for around another 45 minutes.

after that he pulled me into an exam room, told me he had given her some valium to help stop the seizures but otherwise he wasn't sure what to do. she had been seizing almost constantly since before i had found her 4 hours earlier. the valium seemed to supress the seizures but i could still see her twitching a bit now and then. he took her home with him that night and stayed up with her all night, she ate a little around 4am and i picked her up the next day, she had been eating fruits and hadn't had any more seizures, but was obviously so exhausted she could barely move, and was very uncoordinated. almost as soon as i got home she started to seize again, i gave her the valium but it got worse before it got better. the valium only seems to make the spasms less violent.

today tegan had some minor seizures around 11am, but seems to have been quiet since...she is still exhausted and unable to move much on her own or eat by herself. the vet has decided to put her on permanent daily anti-seizure medication, but he doesn't know for sure if it will stop them. he has to order it so i've got at least a week ahead of me before i can reduce the frequency. we still don't know why it was caused, and i really don't know what to do for her while it's happening, i had just heard that i should make sure she doesn't arch too far and snap her spine, and that i should keep her cool so she doesn't overheat.

is there anyone out there with experience with severe seizure activity? is she going to be like this permanently? if i have to i will feed her with a syringe the rest of her life (i'll already be administering daily siezure meds) but i want to see her run and play and cuddle with her brother again. she's got her usual head shake back (she is one of my 3 handicapped gliders) but she's not as crabby as she usually is, and is very lethargic. sometimes i half expect her to be dead when i pick her up. her heart rate is low and her breathing is a lot faster than everyone else's.

please, if there's anyone out there that can help me with this, pm me your phone number...she feels so fragile, i am so scared i will do something wrong and make it worse.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#122310 - 07/20/06 10:18 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Oh my, this is heart breaking. I'm truly sorry to hear all this. I really can't offer you any advice but please know that my prayers are with Tegan and you.

The vallium will at least help her relax and give her some temporary relief.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#122311 - 07/20/06 10:55 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
petal Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 61
I will say a lot of prayers tonight just for tegan. I hope that your vet can find some answers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#122312 - 07/20/06 11:00 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I know this is going to sound cold hearted...and I don't want it to but...there may come a point when you may need decide that she needs help to the Rainbow Bridge. I faced this with my ferret. He had insulinoma (cancer of the pancreas) which was untreatable. While I did not have to have him put down, I did give him pain meds to relax him and his seizures and allowed him to pass quietly. (I had a lethal does ready to give him if needed). I also had a dog with epilepsy. So I know the pain of watching the seizures.

This is a very painful situation you are in and I KNOW your heart just shatters each time she has a seizure. You want to make it go away and make her healthy. Sometimes, though, this is not an option for us.

You will know in your heart what is right for her and WHEN it is right for her. I pray that the anti seizure meds works and she lives to be 18+ years old.

I wish I had some medical advise for you. Has your vet done any phone consults with other vets? Dr. Teresa Bradley might be able to help or Peggy's vet down in TX. He sees a great number of gliders and my have some insight.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#122313 - 07/20/06 11:31 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
I can only offer you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
as I have no experience with gliders with seizures. I do have a 10 yr old weinie dog with seizure disorder.........I still freak out every time he has one. You and your baby will be in my prayers!!!...............Cora
_________________________
USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm

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#122314 - 07/21/06 12:36 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
thank you all for your thoughts. dancing, i understand what you are trying to say, and i hope it doesn't come to that...she may be at peace but Dimitri would take it very hard. they have been attached at the hip since they were born, with only one month of separation between when i brought him home and when i was finally able to reunite him. they are twins.

she has been eating yogurt from a dish in her little cage, all by herself, but is getting it everywhere. she can drink from the bottle if i put it up to her mouth but she can't seem to find it alone in her cage. she seems more active but still a little delirious, when i take her out to hold her she looks up at me and i can tell she sees me. her body weight has increased a great deal since last night, we've been giving her gatorade to help her hydrate. she still can't manage to eat any mealies, although she acts like she really, really wants to. it's heartbreaking watching her struggle to get the mealie and then try her hardest to eat it.

i brought her brother down to see her a few minutes ago and they were overjoyed to see each other, she kept throwing her head back and hissing and then trying to sniff him. he sniffed her all over and cuddled up with her. i'm going to keep them together as long as i can tonight before bed unless she starts seizing again.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#122315 - 07/21/06 12:40 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
I do not know if you left out any information as to supportive care at home. Did the vet perscribed anything other than Valium? If so... what?

If no meds were perscribed.... I would be looking for another vet ASAP.

Seizures are usually brought about from dehydration and/or bacterial or parasitic infections. Sub q Hydration is required to correct an electrolyte imbalance as well as replenish fluids lost. Correct meds required by testing first are necessary to combat what bug has infected the glider.

If the glider is only on Valium... it is only masking what the real problem is. Without proper meds... if not already on them.... this glider most likely will not survive.

Most illnesses are brought about from an oppertuniest bacterium as the result of stress. Stress is usually brought about through things in the enviroment that the glider has trouble adjusting to.

Glider if unable to eat on her own can be syringed fed the BML.

At this point... added weight noticed from fluid retention does not sound good. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Edited by Judie (07/21/06 12:53 AM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#122316 - 07/21/06 12:52 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


That sounds painful! The poor baby has to wait a whole week to get that anti seizure meds? I hope they work, Poor thing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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#122317 - 07/21/06 12:58 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
i have a sub-q kit for emergencies and i did give her 2.5 cc's last night, which seemed to help.

my vet said he is ordering some daily medication for her but it will take at least a week to get in. until then i'm stuck, but i have enough pre-dosed valium syringes to make ME feel rather loopy. he gave them to me in the hope that she would recover, and until then i could make her feel more relaxed while she is suffering the seizures.

my doctor did a blood test and found normal levels of white blood cells and nothing else abnormal. he also ran a urine sample and found nothing that might cause any problems. as for the dehydration, she was looking a little thin, but the water bottle was nearly full, and fresh. her brother was fat and happy and plenty hydrated. when i offered her water she did drink, but not like a dehydrated glider. she would willingly drink the water but stop after a few seconds. he's not sure what is causing the seizures but since she has a history, we can guess that it's not situational. this glider is one of the three mentally handicapped gliders that came from inbreeding for color. her brother and sister that share the condition have never had any seizures that i know of, so i have no idea if it's related to the condition or if it's just another defect to throw into their inbred genetic coctail.

my vet is a very skilled vet. he works with gliders on a regular basis and i have seen him do things for my animals that other vets had told me were impossible. he goes the extra mile every time. he has already done so much for tegan. i don't think she could be in better hands.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#122318 - 07/21/06 01:11 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Beth, hang in there. If you need to talk (I know sleep is probably not going to be your friend tonight), you can call if you want. I can't be of much help but am someone to chat with if you just need to. You're not alone.

Prayers for all three of you...you, Tegan and Dimitri
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#122319 - 07/21/06 01:18 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Beth, feel free to give me a call, my number is 419-969-0924

I delt with seizures a lot when Smegal was still with me. There are a few different things I would like to discuss with you.

Feel free to call at any time. I work 10-6 est, but other than that, my phone is always on...

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#122320 - 07/21/06 01:38 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3059
Loc: u.s.a.
the most important thing is your situation is to get a urine culture and sensitivity which will tell you what type bacteria she has and what meds to treat it with. this takes a few days to come back also do a direct fecal float with cytology. and forget the valium after u get the urine sample and have it sent for the c and s. get some baytril and metrodiazanole to treat if she has parasitic or bacterial issue. dont wait on the urine culture and sensitivity. as judie said the valium is masking the problem you need a cure and fast.

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#122321 - 07/21/06 03:15 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
angel, i appreciate your suggestions <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

my vet took a urine sample and did some minor testing during the visit but kept enough for further testing. he agrees that this is likely a health issue that has to do with her own genetics and body chemistry, and he did confirm that there was nothing suspicious in her blood sample. i'd guess it's something like epilepsy...sure, things can "trigger" a seizure, and if discovered i can do my best to prevent her exposure, but we're talking a little more like flashing lights than bacteria...and she has been exposed to many things in her life and nothing has changed lately. right now it's a waiting game, and i want tegan to be as comfortable as possible. she can't continue to strain her muscles like this, she is so exhausted. the valium might be masking the problem but it's helping her to hang on until we can offer a better alternative in the form of a daily dosage of anti-seizure medication. please believe me when i say i did not refuse any option of testing...i told him to do whatever he thought might be helpful. i left a blank check for him.

leyna, i have tomorrow off and will call you after you get off work. i think it's about 4am your time right now.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#122322 - 07/21/06 04:33 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" /> Sending prayers and hugs your way for little Tegan and you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#122323 - 07/21/06 06:04 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
The list of what could cause a glider to have seizures is endless. It turns into a guessing game. We recently met a little male glider who was having occasional seizures and they only lasted a short time. We increased the protein in his diet and he has not had any more. We are not even sure that the change in the diet is what stopped them. I wouldn't even suggest that this is a problem with your glider but thought it worth mentioning. Like you we were grasping at straws and this seemed to help in this one particular situation.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#122324 - 07/21/06 07:11 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh my. This is heartwrenching to read. As hard as it is for me to read, I can't imagine what you're going through watching it and dealing with it constantly. Little Tegan has lots and lots of prayers coming that way!!! Best of Luck to you!!!

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#122325 - 07/21/06 01:47 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I wish you luck with Tegan! I know how you feel, my baby had seizures too and died 4 hours later. I guess, correct me if I'm wrong, that all gliders do not react the same to seizures. Maybe it depends on the cause too. As I said, I didn't even have time to react with mine, it was already too late.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#122326 - 07/21/06 02:04 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Im not sure if anyone mentioned this but as im sure you may know, seizures can cause seveare brain damage as well as most of the time they cannot breathe. In this case make sure you are always there to make sure she eat and make sure you do give the bottle to her. Im so sorry this is happening to you. I wish you the best of luck!

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#122327 - 07/21/06 04:42 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm so sorry to hear about your little one, I hope things get better soon. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#122328 - 07/21/06 05:26 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
I will keep Tegan in my thoughts and prayers as well <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />. She is SO fortunate to have such a loving owner <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />. I am sure you will do whatever is best for little Tegan.
Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#122329 - 07/21/06 07:08 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm so sorry you have to go through this. I've never delt with siezures in any animal, only my dog's kidney failure. The vet said she could live on medication all her life, or they could put her to sleep, but she would still gradually deteriorate over time. It's horrible to know your baby is sick and not be able to do anything about it.

I really hope Tegan's siezure meds help. It's great that you love her so much, and remember we're all here for you if you need us! PM me if you need someone to talk to. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#122330 - 07/22/06 05:36 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: michelleb]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
the doc managed to get the meds she needs this afternoon. he says it's a twice daily thing, called phenobarb, in liquid form, administered with a syringe. he had to guess at the dosage because there was no suggested dose for anything as small as a glider. he's starting her out at half dosage and we'll up it if she has any more seizures. she doesn't like the taste much but i'll be mixing it with something else soon.

she's been crabbing at me today every time i pick her up, so i know she's recovering, but she gets really mad if i touch her head. after talking to leyna, i'm assuming this is because of the swelling in her brain, which is giving her a headache. she lunges and tries to bite me but she can't work her jaw well enough to actually bite. she's still eating her yogurt like a champ but she can't eat anything solid. she has a pouch on the bottom of the cage but won't sleep in it, she sleeps unnatrually on her stomach or on her side on the bottom of the cage, she doesn't even curl up. leyna said her functions might get better once her brain swelling is down, which can take up to a week, but she has not improved any today...she is the same now as she was this morning.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#122331 - 07/22/06 05:54 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Beth, just be patient with her... Healing takes time.

You might want to talk to Cyndi Garnes, she has a dog on same medication for seizures. She might be able to give you some pointers with the meds (what to mix it with, what not to mix it with, what to expect when using it, etc.).

As I said yesterday, if you need anything, just give me a call. Also, just remember to give your little girl time to heal. When Smegal was having seizures, he went threw phases of fear, anger, and confusion, don't take any of that stuff personally. She'll love you even more than she does now for what you are doing for her...

Also, remember to talk to your vet about antibiotics. While yogurt helps maintain good bacteria, it does nothing to prevent bad bacteria from growing. These seizures might supress her immune system, so antibiotics are something to think about...

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#122332 - 07/22/06 02:04 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
How do you know she has Brain Swelling? Did the vet do an X-Ray or something of her skull?
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#122333 - 07/22/06 02:50 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Wow, so sorry to hear this is happening. I can't offer any advice, but I can give more prayers and hugs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> to you and little Tegan.

If your vet is not already in the Vets Database, please (once you get a bit of a breather) add the information. He does sound very dedicated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#122334 - 07/22/06 05:42 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Keyosmama Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 2175
Loc: Ontario , Canada
*Sending up Prayers from our furry and skin family to you and Tegan and brother Dmitri.*

I wish you all courage, strength and the will to fight...
A
_________________________
Amanda, Jeff&

A Pomchi named Wickett
A Yorkie named Meeya
A Great Dane named Berlyn
5 Cats Kamorah, Aiko, Mo, Peekaboo, & Alice
Someday Ill have more suggies... frown
2 skin kids - Xander Finlay James March6 2010, and Rohan Kingsley July 5 2011


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#122335 - 07/22/06 07:08 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
judie, when leyna and i talked she mentioned that seizures, especially ones like tegan has been having, can cause swelling in the brain, which explains why her muscle function has returned but her coordination and comprehension has not. she said it might take up to a week or more for the swelling to go down. as far as we know, though, she may be permanently damaged. she has shown no more improvement today, although i haven't seen any seizures since thursday morning, which is a relief. she still sleeps laying on her side or stomach on the bottom of the cage, and she still can't bite me when she tries.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#122336 - 07/23/06 08:36 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Beth-I'm so sorry I was unable to return your call-it sounds like your vet got things under control. I have two vets you can consult with if you need them (for future reference), one in KS and one here in UT.

Please keep us updated on the wee one! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#122337 - 07/23/06 10:04 AM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Judie, the violent jerking of seizures can cause the brain to get rattled around and it swells. It's actually pretty common and I mentioned it because it was a problem I had with Smegal when he would have seizures. My vet was always worried about brain damage from the swelling, but apparently, his seizures weren't quite violent enough to cause any perminant damage.

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#122338 - 07/23/06 05:55 PM Re: Massive Seizures [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Beth. I am so sorry you both are going through this. I had the same problem with my little girl up until 9 months ago. She has NOT had a seizure since I started giving her more Calcium. I went through some of the hardest times as you are. Please try to give more Calcium. You have nothing to lose if you try it. All my best hopes for you both. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/muchlove.gif" alt="" />

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