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#1226851 - 02/09/12 12:32 AM Yet another Platinum Post
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Okay... I have been racking my brains looking at lineages, looking at glider pics... BTW that data base is all screwed up... 9 Pages of test joeys... come on folks clean up the lines on paper first...


anyway... I see entries posts questions regarding platinum mosaics, and Haley plat lines

I see ads for plat mos, plat gliders, plat hets. double hets.. how putting a plat with a leu will produce the same as putting a plat with a plat.. and then I look to see what people are even considering what a plat is...

it seems with Haley although a beautiful glider, seems to be the deciding lines on the plats.. but that would mean all the lines are related.. bahhh imagine that... I see others post they have plat mos.. that have no haley plat in their lines...

the waters are so muddy between plat colored plat mos, plat lines and plat hets.. that personally i don't think anyone has a real sense of what really is going on,

so I will say... many many moons ago..mike sandridge had a plat that he couldn't get to breed or produce plats, i also had one that wouldn't produce viable joeys, or the one we did hand feed wasn't a plat..

now those plats.. which were defined by sheila.. the same person who had the haley glider.. identified them by not having any stripe at all down their back and on their head.

there is no history in haleys line to show a plat as we knew it then...

so now everyone is asking is this a plat? posting pics... but everyone is saying "does it have plat in the lines"... so is the plats only on paper or is there a definitive way we can look at a glider and tell whether it is a plat, a plat mo or is plat colored?

I have a darker glider I was told is a plat..it has haley in the lines.. I see others that have very light gliders that also have haley in the lines. all of these gliders have stripes, faint as they may be.. but....

I also have a champagne mosaic that is very very very light and the stripe is very thin and light barely visible. what denotes the difference between the champagnes and the plats... is there really a difference or is it the leu gene that really lightens the lines up.?

how can it be accepted that a glider like haley just falls into the database with leus and white faces and standard grays in her history and all of a sudden be considered a plat..?? she is a lighter glider..yes.. but I now see gliders.. that have a dusting of silver on their backs with no stripes which is actually much closer to the plats of yesterday but yet are not considered plats because the plats are not in the lines??? makes no sense to me.. since there was no plats in haleys line either. who is to say that those gliders did have some true plat hets that was virtually unknown at the time....

I need someone to show me the comparison pics of the plats, and the plat mos, and the plat colored to show me the difference. so I can look at a glider and say... that is a plat.. we can do it with the mo's, the leus, the creaminos or black beauties even.. but we can't do it with the plats???
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#1226857 - 02/09/12 12:54 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
jen102375 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 571
Loc: Kenosha,WI




This is my Plat Mo she is Hailey line, she is darker than some and lighter than some.
_________________________
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3 daughters Ellivia(13)Hanna(10)Alayna(6)
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#1226859 - 02/09/12 01:23 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Just something to toss out there...platinums are BORN platinum, they don;t BECOME platinum. So, if a "platinum mosaic" isn't born that way then it ain't a true platinum.

Personally, I wouldn't consider any mosaic a true platinum until it's proven out.

On that note, I did have a mosaic from platinum lines who looked like a true platinum, imo. However, at the time we didn't know that he was from platinum lines because the connection between leu and platinum was unknown and it was thought that both parents need the platinum gene to produce platinum.

However, even if I HAD known about that at the time I still wouldn't have accepted him as being a true platinum unless he produced a non-mosaic platinum.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#1226903 - 02/09/12 08:21 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
A platinum:


A true platinum mosaic:


A platinum-colored mosaic:
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#1226914 - 02/09/12 09:15 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome

A true platinum mosaic:



Did you put the wrong picture there? That mo is definitely not a true platinum. :/ It looks like a regular ol' mosaic that might powder out as it gets older, but it doesn't look anything like a platinum, imo.

The first picture, on the other hand, looks like a true platinum.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#1226916 - 02/09/12 09:22 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Guerita135]
jen102375 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 571
Loc: Kenosha,WI
[quote=Guerita135]Just something to toss out there...platinums are BORN platinum, they don;t BECOME platinum.

Charity was born Platinum, She powdered out because of the mosaic, She always had the taupe stripe it was just dark so the only way to see it when she was a baby was to hold her in the sun light, Then it was copper. If she wouldn't have been a Mosaic she would have been a darker plat.
But I do have to disagree with you on somthing being born and changing. If you have an animal born and it is has 2 traits, one can be stronger than the other, Then while growning it can show different traits, Just like with kids and their hair changes color as they age or their eyes change color, Or they may even look like mom as a baby then grow up to look like Dad, Science is an amazing thing thing, and it would be foolish to say somthing born of one thing can't change or it not a true this. But yes it is always what it was when it was born but in looks it can change to look different but it still is what it is.


Edited by jen102375 (02/09/12 09:24 AM)
_________________________
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Hubby Jon
3 daughters Ellivia(13)Hanna(10)Alayna(6)
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#1226919 - 02/09/12 09:26 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Jen, your glider is gorgeous but I don't see anything that suggests it is a mosaic.

To me, mosaic have white patches (like the plat mosaic Alden posted), white rings on the tail, all white tail, white feet (hard to tell with a plat though as they are so light anyway) or mostly white bodies with a few grey hairs/whiskers that indicate the mosaic gene is there (compared to leus). Or any combo of these things.

White tip gliders can just pop up out of no where. They carry the gene somewhere (who knows where it started) but most often stays hidden? We know that breeding wt gliders together increases our chances of wt joeys. But the "hets" can skip many generations to the point of "us" forgetting they are hets for wt (or never knowing in the first place).

..perhaps true plats are the same?
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1226924 - 02/09/12 09:38 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
jen102375 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 571
Loc: Kenosha,WI
Theresa, She is a ringtail MO don't you see her rings, she is paired to a 66% plat het wf and all their babies have been Mosaics except 3. Dad is not a mosaic.

Here are her babies
http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/zz69/jen102375/cash%20n%20charity%20babies/


Edited by jen102375 (02/09/12 09:47 AM)
_________________________
Slave 2
Hubby Jon
3 daughters Ellivia(13)Hanna(10)Alayna(6)
6 Suggies: Harley/Abby, Pongo/Pracilla, Cash/Charity
4 wonderful Rescues

Jen
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PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEY'S (THANK YOU) smile



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#1226926 - 02/09/12 09:45 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
IslandGliders Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/29/10
Posts: 4182
Loc: Maine
There is no doubt in my mind that my Ajax is a platinum:


Ajax, Almost Four Months by Just In Luv, on Flickr

However, I see your point, Bourbon. Without the lineage to back a glider up, sometimes we can't tell on looks alone the way we can with mos and leus and so on.

There is a HUGE range in the look of platinums. Some are so dark they look like a pretty typical WFB. If you don't look at lineage, and at pics of these gliders when they first come OOP, in my opinion you would never know.

The true plat mo is a debate I don't wish to get into again. LOL I will say that Ajax has spotted ears:


Spotty Ears by Just In Luv, on Flickr


"He's Perfect!" by Just In Luv, on Flickr

and no color on his knuckles (?) so it has been tossed around that he might be a true plat mo (his mother was a mosaic). I will never know for sure as he is in love with my ringtail mosaic girl and I would not split a pair of gliders up just to prove a genetic point. But it seems that most platinums do not have spotted ears.

But I do wonder if Ajax being A) white-faced and B) 100% het for leu contributes to his being more light than some of the darker plats that come from a het x het pairing. He is Silverbell lines and for a long time I thought Haleys were dark and Silverbells light, but now I've seen pictures of gliders proving just the opposite (i.e. light Haleys and dark Silverbells).

I do wish that whoever coined the term "platinum mosaic" to mean "a very light, powdered out mosaic" could have used "silver mosaic" or something else not involving the word "platinum" instead. It would've made for less confusion.

Originally Posted By: Bourbon
it seems with Haley although a beautiful glider, seems to be the deciding lines on the plats.. but that would mean all the lines are related.. bahhh imagine that... I see others post they have plat mos.. that have no haley plat in their lines...


This statement confuses me, Bourbon. It is well known that there is another platinum line, the Silverbell line.

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#1226927 - 02/09/12 09:48 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: jen102375]
IslandGliders Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/29/10
Posts: 4182
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: jen102375
Theresa, She is a ringtail MO don't you see her rings, she is paired to a 66% plat het wf and all their babies have been Mosaics except 3. Dad is not a mosaic.

Here are her babies
http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/zz69/jen102375/cash%20n%20charity%20babies/


I see her rings! Beautiful!

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#1226930 - 02/09/12 10:05 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
jen102375 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 571
Loc: Kenosha,WI
Awww thanks Hanna, and thanks Teresa she is very beautiful.
_________________________
Slave 2
Hubby Jon
3 daughters Ellivia(13)Hanna(10)Alayna(6)
6 Suggies: Harley/Abby, Pongo/Pracilla, Cash/Charity
4 wonderful Rescues

Jen
262 748-4128 24hr help
www.thegliderboutique.com

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEY'S (THANK YOU) smile



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#1226937 - 02/09/12 10:23 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
OOPS, my bad, sorry, no I was looking at her face so much I didn't see her purty tail! Yep, definately a mosaic!
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1226940 - 02/09/12 10:26 AM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
I do wish that whoever coined the term "platinum mosaic" to mean "a very light, powdered out mosaic" could have used "silver mosaic" or something else not involving the word "platinum" instead. It would've made for less confusion.


This has been discussed several times before and while most agree that it should be "silver mosaic" instead of "plat mosaic" and that is where "plat colored mosaic" came from to distinguish between the true plat mosaics and the plat COLORED mosaics.

Old habits are hard to break.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1227006 - 02/09/12 12:18 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Dancing]
jen102375 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 571
Loc: Kenosha,WI
Originally Posted By: Dancing
Quote:
I do wish that whoever coined the term "platinum mosaic" to mean "a very light, powdered out mosaic" could have used "silver mosaic" or something else not involving the word "platinum" instead. It would've made for less confusion.


This has been discussed several times before and while most agree that it should be "silver mosaic" instead of "plat mosaic" and that is where "plat colored mosaic" came from to distinguish between the true plat mosaics and the plat COLORED mosaics.

Old habits are hard to break.


I agree smile
_________________________
Slave 2
Hubby Jon
3 daughters Ellivia(13)Hanna(10)Alayna(6)
6 Suggies: Harley/Abby, Pongo/Pracilla, Cash/Charity
4 wonderful Rescues

Jen
262 748-4128 24hr help
www.thegliderboutique.com

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEY'S (THANK YOU) smile



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#1227026 - 02/09/12 02:05 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Dancing]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dancing
Quote:
I do wish that whoever coined the term "platinum mosaic" to mean "a very light, powdered out mosaic" could have used "silver mosaic" or something else not involving the word "platinum" instead. It would've made for less confusion.


This has been discussed several times before and while most agree that it should be "silver mosaic" instead of "plat mosaic" and that is where "plat colored mosaic" came from to distinguish between the true plat mosaics and the plat COLORED mosaics.

Old habits are hard to break.


May be hard to break, but if those that have them would change their description and start using it, it would change. Difficult, but not impossible. I won't call them platinum mosaics because that's just "not" what they are. They are silver mosaics.

If we start the change now - the "newer generation" will not be so confused.
_________________________
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Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


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#1227029 - 02/09/12 02:10 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Guerita135]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Bourbon, I think if you limited your search to just platinum gliders and didn't consider anything that says platinum mosaic or true plat mosaic, it would be a bit easier.

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Personally, I wouldn't consider any mosaic a true platinum until it's proven out.


:agreed:

I have asked several times how breeders know that their joey is a true plat mo, and I've yet to get an answer. IMO, these joeys should be considered Mosaic, 100% PH until they prove out.
_________________________
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Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


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#1227051 - 02/09/12 03:04 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
okay.. as for the haley line being the only one.... well the silverbelle... is out of 2 standard grays.. owned by susan from FFR... with no history...
there isn't even a picture of silverbelle.. and pawnee's parents BOTH ... says that they are a possible het for champagne...

again my question wasn't answered... the ones that are being called platinum... are basically platinum colored a lighter color... so if in the beginning it is ASSUMED that the gene was hidden and now POP there it is we shall call them platinum... why wouldn't the ones that are like aldens plat colored mosaic be the same way? who is to say that. isn't the real plat lines, as they are far and few in between.. just as in the original plats.. after all those just started POPPING up.. now looking at the pics...



so basically the determination on whether a glider is a platinum or not is solely determined by a mill breeder (ffr) words that hers is platinum..no pics.. and haley who in actuality is a platinum Colored glider.whose line includes leusistics and mosaics.. cause no one can show me where she is any different than other platinum colored gliders..

my platina, as beautiful as she is doesn't fit any of the pics posted but states she is from the haley line.. but at the same time.. the original haley glider was a silver where as Platina closer resemble Pawnee from the silverbelle line

Mac a foundation glider was considered a platinum colored mosaic but yet his foundation isn't platinum??? and he produced some of the most beautiful grand babies.. could those leu lines be the ones that are showing up as the the ones that are being bred back to the "platinum lines?

the fu babies are a beautiful line of babies as well, which has the mac in it's line.. it also has a line of white mosaics.. could it be that the original line of true platinum, are really platinum colored mo's? or just platinum colored gliders, and the true platinum lines are being disregarded as other things?

remember the history of the platinum.. that they couldn't reproduce more platinum.. maybe just maybe this random popping up of the "dusted" mo's as in the last pic of aldens.. that DOESN'T have any stripe... is the ACTUAL true platinum line.. they can be differentiated from the other gliders.. and they can not be force produced.. as in other lines.. they are as random as the attempted breeding programs of the early 2000's.. to get a platinum joey back then would have brought a fortune... what if... they are here.. but only showing up randomly through the generations..

this would make far more sense that everything you all are saying as of yet regarding the platinum..


you see I ask this cause I don't have a financial horse in this race.. I have a creamino that is not breeding a platinum (supposedly) and I have an offspring which in my eyes is a "true platinum" I have a champagne mosaic..which looks just like what you all are saying is a platinum.. I have a platinum mosaic according to your pics..

for all those buffs out there that love to peruse the database .. check out the "random births of those dusted gliders.. see if they don't all lead back to the same place.. mother white (who was considered a white mo) or mac who was a platinum colored mo)

we have allowed the people in the past to decide what denotes certain lines and those people are the same ones that have inbred for color, are large breeders or have huge financial horses in the race..

remember before the "black beauty" they were another variation of the grays, accepted as such long before PP came in and threw a name on them... the same as the lions... and the reds, and the browns.. white faces were the colors? simply because they were OBVIOUSLY very different.. I seen some pics of gliders from australia.. that says those gray and brown lines are really common place.. it wasn't until the leus, and the mo's that there was a huge difference... but then their lighter and darker variations were ASSUMED were something different.."platinum"..

The database is messed up really bad.. almost no ones breeding programs are cleaned up.. the percentages are horribly marked (alden I noticed your were real bad) the platinum colors and platinum mos..are labeled with platinum...

and yet through all of this... no one call tell me visually how to tell if a glider is a platinum or just platinum mo or platinum colored.. don't tell me to look at the lines.. tell me what to look for on a glider so I can see the difference. simply because there could be other lines that have those same genes.. as we are seeing...

GENES determine the gliders colors.. the leu gene does not produce MO's or black beauties.. the creamino gene does not produce mosaics or black beauties. don't tell me that the platinum gene is different than the plat mos or the plat colored.. unless you can tell me why they are visually different..
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1227055 - 02/09/12 03:19 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
IslandGliders Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/29/10
Posts: 4182
Loc: Maine
I was told that true platinums' stripes are tawny/gold/brown/however you want to describe it instead of black or gray.


"Well? We're Waiting!" by Just In Luv, on Flickr

mosaic + platinum side by side
Rintoo's stripe is black, and Ajax's stripe is tan

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#1227070 - 02/09/12 04:26 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
please delete


Edited by Bourbon (02/09/12 04:28 PM)
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1227071 - 02/09/12 04:27 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
I just followed my downline for a dusted silver mo..


mother white...white mo had snow white a white mo (possibly dusted by looking at the pic)
2 generations of regular mos or ringtails then comes Colin who is a dusted silver mosaic mo 2 generations later aurora is born.a dusted silver mo.....

now aurora was paired with bourbon a reverse strip platinum colored mo and they too produced a dusted silver mo... chiffon



the downline also has colins parents Corkey and Correy reds
which produces.........Pie balds..



makes you wanna go HMMMMMMmmmm... with the dusted silver mo's..
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1227093 - 02/09/12 06:34 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
it was brought to my attention.. that I put haley as having mo in her downline... she does not.. soooo

yeah i am bad.... i thought that haley was a mo... but sorry about that I stand corrected
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1227118 - 02/09/12 08:17 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
ajax doesn't have the gold/tawny brown whatever... but you know he is a plat...

without looking at his lines.. on paper... because they are all screwed up... then how do you know he is a plat
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1227123 - 02/09/12 08:47 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
IslandGliders Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/29/10
Posts: 4182
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
ajax doesn't have the gold/tawny brown whatever... but you know he is a plat...


Are you looking at the same pictures I am? dunno

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#1227125 - 02/09/12 08:51 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Bourbon, you have to look at mosaics as something totally different than platinums; physically and genetically.

A platinum glider is a silver glider with a light tawny colored stripe.

Mosaics will have white feet - and must have a mosaic as one of the parents. A mosaics fur coloring and pattern are random.

Yes, we do take FFR's word for it that Silverbelle is/was a platinum as she has reproduced that color variation. Haley is, without question, a platinum. Both lines have proven to be platinums based on their offspring and subsequent family tree.

We are seeing more platinum gliders being born after my gliders proved that there is such a thing as a het. Until Beatrice and Bosley produced Nicky, no one was pairing the greys from plat lines to anything to try to produce plat. Now we know how to pair them and are successfully reproducing that color. We can reproduce it now just as well as we can leus and creaminos.

As far as platinum vs. champagne, I don't know how to answer that. When you and I had a conference call with Judy after Nicky was born, she explained to me the difference between the two. Platinum is silver, just like with jewelry. Champagne has a gold tint to it, just like the liquid beverage.

Now, are these two the same gene and just a variation of the two?

I have a glider that to this day I don't know how to classify his color. He's lighter than a standard, but darker than a platinum. He's gorgeous! I've consulted other breeders, and a few have seen him in person. Still no answer.

_________________________
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#1227147 - 02/09/12 09:41 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
island gliders... i was looking at the first pic you posted of ajax...


so you are saying that every glider born of the haley line is either a plat or a het for plat?
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#1227152 - 02/09/12 10:15 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
so if people could get the same colors with a plat mo or a plat colored mo then why should they pay more just to have it on paper they are a plat?? obviously they are able to reproduce the plat mos so they look like plats...

and obviously the dusted silver mos can be reproduced... maybe sparsely but isn't it the coloring the looks of the glider that people buy?
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#1227155 - 02/09/12 10:24 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: IslandGliders]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
Originally Posted By: IslandGliders
There is no doubt in my mind that my Ajax is a platinum:


Ajax, Almost Four Months by Just In Luv, on Flickr

However, I see your point, Bourbon. Without the lineage to back a glider up, sometimes we can't tell on looks alone the way we can with mos and leus and so on.

There is a HUGE range in the look of platinums. Some are so dark they look like a pretty typical WFB. If you don't look at lineage, and at pics of these gliders when they first come OOP, in my opinion you would never know.

The true plat mo is a debate I don't wish to get into again. LOL I will say that Ajax has spotted ears:


Spotty Ears by Just In Luv, on Flickr


"He's Perfect!" by Just In Luv, on Flickr

and no color on his knuckles (?) so it has been tossed around that he might be a true plat mo (his mother was a mosaic). I will never know for sure as he is in love with my ringtail mosaic girl and I would not split a pair of gliders up just to prove a genetic point. But it seems that most platinums do not have spotted ears.

But I do wonder if Ajax being A) white-faced and B) 100% het for leu contributes to his being more light than some of the darker plats that come from a het x het pairing. He is Silverbell lines and for a long time I thought Haleys were dark and Silverbells light, but now I've seen pictures of gliders proving just the opposite (i.e. light Haleys and dark Silverbells).

I do wish that whoever coined the term "platinum mosaic" to mean "a very light, powdered out mosaic" could have used "silver mosaic" or something else not involving the word "platinum" instead. It would've made for less confusion.

Originally Posted By: Bourbon
it seems with Haley although a beautiful glider, seems to be the deciding lines on the plats.. but that would mean all the lines are related.. bahhh imagine that... I see others post they have plat mos.. that have no haley plat in their lines...


This statement confuses me, Bourbon. It is well known that there is another platinum line, the Silverbell line.


Your plat boy has some white whiskers. From what I've heard that can only happen with mosaics. Together with the spotted ears, I'd say he's a true platinum mosaic.
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mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#1227161 - 02/09/12 10:38 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
island gliders... i was looking at the first pic you posted of ajax...


so you are saying that every glider born of the haley line is either a plat or a het for plat?


I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything, I didn't have time to read the whole thread--

The platinum gene, from what I understand, passes the same way any recessive passes. It is, however, dominant over leucistic. Since platinum is dominant over leucistic, you can safely assume that a leu produced by a plat parent does NOT carry the platinum gene (or else the joey would be platinum).

When a leu is paired with a platinum, two situations could arise. If the platinum parent has two platinum genes and no leu, all of the joeys will be platinum leucistic hets. If the platinum parent is a leu het, you will get 2 leus in four and 2 platinums in four--of the platinums, all will be leucistic het (since the leu parent can only pass the leu gene). If you have a platinum leu het parent and a grey leu het parent, you will get one plat in four, one leu in four, and two "grey" joeys in four--but the two greys are 50% het for platinum and 50% het for leu. In this situation, if the joey is born "grey," it means the leu gene did not pass from the leu het parent, and there is a 50% chance that the plat parent passed the plat gene or the leu gene.

This means that a joey from a platinum parent is NOT necessarily a platinum het; if the platinum parent carries leu, either gene has an equal chance of passing to a joey since the plat parent must pass one of the genes, but cannot pass both. A leu cancels all platinum potential, and you can consider the plat gene "blocked" from traveling any further at every leucistic ancestor.

Essentially, the platinum gene works exactly like the cremino/albino genes work together.

Originally Posted By: Bourbon
so if people could get the same colors with a plat mo or a plat colored mo then why should they pay more just to have it on paper they are a plat?? obviously they are able to reproduce the plat mos so they look like plats...


Platinum can be planned and produced predictably. Platinum colored mosaics aren't as consistent, and here's the real kicker--they are easy to produce. You only need one mosaic parent to produce a mosaic joey, and you can get a platinum colored mosaic from nearly any mosaic parent, although there's no guarantee a mosaic glider will produce a plat colored mo, even if one has already been born to that parent. True platinum is more consistent, but the gene is rarer to come by. Many people are interested in combining platinum with other color variants (like cremino), but the bottom line is--for pet-only, a platinum colored mosaic (in my opinion) would be preferable. There is essentially no difference. For a breeder though, there are some genetic avenues left to be explored. What happens when you pair the Silverbelle line with the Haley line? Can you produce a platinum het cremino? Can a platinum het cremino produce a cremino het platinum? Can you combine cremino and platinum to make a joey that is BOTH colors, and if so, how does that work with breeding? If a platinum/cremino joey can be produced, is it possible to have a plat/cremino joey that is het for plat, leu, cremino AND albino? It just comes down to what breeders would like to do. I wouldn't recommend paying $3k for a pet-only platinum when you could get a beautiful plat colored mo for $600 pet only.
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Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#1227168 - 02/09/12 10:49 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: Bourbon]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
so if people could get the same colors with a plat mo or a plat colored mo then why should they pay more just to have it on paper they are a plat?? obviously they are able to reproduce the plat mos so they look like plats...

and obviously the dusted silver mos can be reproduced... maybe sparsely but isn't it the coloring the looks of the glider that people buy?


There is no guarantee that with a silver mosaic parent they will ever reproduce a silver mosaic joey. When it comes to mosaic joeys, you never know what they will look like. With platinums, you know the joeys will be either platinum or grey hets.

Whether people like the concept or not, pricing is based on supply, demand, and the economy. Within the past few years, most of the color gliders prices have come way down. People pay for what "they want". If they truly want a platinum, they pay for a platinum, and won't settle for anything else. It's all personal preference.

With mosaics being so easy to reproduce, why are they valued any higher than a WF? Simply because people want them and are willing to pay those prices.
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#1227174 - 02/09/12 11:07 PM Re: Yet another Platinum Post [Re: GliderNursery]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery

With mosaics being so easy to reproduce, why are they valued any higher than a WF? Simply because people want them and are willing to pay those prices.


Exactly...white faces used to go for $2000 each too. They multiplied quickly, though, and their price dropped out quickly as well. Mosaic prices have dropped dramatically because of how easy they are to produce, but there is still enough demand for them that their prices stay above the $1000 mark (usually). I think a big factor is also that they all come out looking different. You can have a colony of white faced gliders that you can't tell apart, but if you have a colony of mosaics it's likely that every one will look a little different.
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mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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