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#122777 - 07/22/06 08:21 AM Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies?
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
It has been a very sad couple of days, and I need to KNOW SOME FACTS as soon as possible!

My friend (Jackie) who adopted Moonbeam and Ernie called me Thursday in a fit of tears: She found Moonbeam on the bottom of the cage & rushed her to the vet's office. The first thing the vet noticed was that Moon was dehydrated, so she was given sub-q fluids. The vet said she was acting very lothargic & the possibility of her having caught a "tainted bug" was on the list of things that could have happened (Jackie lives in an apartment complex). Most sad to say, Moonbeam died at the vet's office. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />

Jackie had a necropsy set up for Moonbeam, and the results were even more frightening to me than just the tainted bug thing: Moonbeam died of kidney failure & there were indications that it was caused from DIABETES!!! She's having a full series of blood tests done on Ernie to make sure there's nothing else going on, but this news has my LAST NERVE ON EDGE!!!!

I've been reviewing a lot of posts from the past on the subject of diabetes, from tests done to confirm its existence to adjusting diets. But the one thing I haven't read ANYWHERE is whether or not DIABETES IS A HEREDITARY ILLNESS IN SUGGIES.

I am asking anyone and everyone on this board to help me research this question.....I have 7 suggies who are in this family tree & need to MOVE QUICKLY if there's even a CHANCE that it is hereditary! I know that in humans, diabetes can play "hit & skip" genetically from one generation to the next, and there are NUMEROUS health issues related to this illness/disease.

Any input will be warmly welcomed!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry

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#122778 - 07/22/06 11:13 AM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh honey, I'm sorry to hear this - unfortunately, I can't be of any help to you, but I believe Xfilefan researched this issue a bit when they thought Chronos had it. You may want to PM her.

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#122779 - 07/22/06 12:18 PM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> I'm so sorry for the lose of Moon! Poor Ernie! I know how excited you were for Ernie to have a friend and companion. He's such a sweet boy. Please make sure you let us (me) know about his test results. I'm going to be so worried about that baby! (you know how I feel about Ernie!)

As for the diabetes...that is a very good question and something that does need researched. I don't have any experience with gliders and diabetes. I do know that other animals such as dogs can develope diabetes.

My mother's dog...well...she was very spoiled. My mother gave her treats constantly and often not very healthy ones. This caused her to get fat. Then she got sick and the vet determined it was diabetes. She ended up having to have insulin shots twice a day for the rest of her life (about another 5 years post diagnosis)

The vet said...like humans, there are different types of diabetes that animals can develope. There is the early onset. (childhood diabetes). Basically, the animal is diabetic because it is diabetic, no real reason known for the cause other then possibly genetics.

Then there is "type 2" diabetes which is often caused by being over weight or improper diet (to much processed sugars). Sometimes diet management can bring it back under control but often it will require daily insulin supliment.

One of the mistaken ideas about diabetes is many people think that "if I eliminate all sugars from the diet, then there won't be anymore problem" and that is a false idea. Sugars are an important part of the body's requirements (sugars are energy foods) but it has to be the right types of sugars (natural sugars, not processed) and it has to be in balance with other foods such as protiens.

My neice was diabetic and I saw her get sick from eating an orange once. While an all natural food, on that one day, the orange contained to much sugar for her body to process and her blood sugar got out of balance quickly.

I do know that with diabetics, exersize is VITAL. Exersizing helps the body burn off excess sugars that the kidneys can not process making it less work for the pancreas (what makes insulin).

I don't know if any of this helps. I'm no expert on diabetes by a long shot. I'm just trying to open some doors on the thought processes.
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#122780 - 07/22/06 06:14 PM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I also am no expert, unfortunately, but I would think the similarities in diabetes in humans might transfer to sugar gliders and other animals.

So sorry to hear about Moonbeam. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
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#122781 - 07/22/06 10:45 PM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] Denise: I am so sorry for your loss. Losing a good friend is never easy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />

As to diabetes, I don't recall ever seeing this reported before. There are other nutritional issues that will manifest themselves in kidney damage. You might want to wait until the final results of the tests are received before you blame diabetes. Just out of curiosity, could you describe the diet that you were using? Thanks. [/]

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#122782 - 07/23/06 08:05 AM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Yours is the first diagnosed case of diabetes in a glider I have ever seen. I would suppose (as in people) it could be hereditary-but would be willing to bet that the rest are fine. You can have the vet test their blood sugar levels-a dead giveaway--PLEASE forgive the pun--of diabetes. There will also be ketones present in the urine with diabetes, and excessive amounts of urination, along with excessive thirst.

I am so sorry for your loss. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I hope this helps some.


Edited by Xfilefan (07/23/06 08:06 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#122783 - 07/23/06 09:39 AM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
Thank you all for your input. I have a basic plan underway and will, of course, keep you informed of what happens.

First and foremost, I've forewarned the OTHER owner of the suggie from this colony (Magic, owned by LAB123--aka Leigh). We are both scheduling vet appointments on Monday to have EVERYONE in for blood sugar tests. We have both decided that we are taking NO CHANCES in this problem going undetected with ANY of our sweet furry-faced loves!

In the same breath, I've contacted Jackie (Moonbeam's owner) to get a copy of Moon's necropsy for our vets to review--with all the technical terminologies inclusive. We're doing this so there will be no mis-interpretation in translation from vet to petowner back to vet again. Leigh's and my vet will UNDERSTAND the cause for our concern & going to these "extremes" AND to give us a "starting point" for monitoring blood sugars, ketones, etc etc, in the months to come.

I've also been in close contact with Bourbon about what has evolved so far and the issue of everyone's diet (not just the colony in question but ALL OF MY SUGGIES): As of yesterday, I'm "going back to the basic of basics" on their menu----ONLY peas, corn, green beans & carrots for veggies; ONLY cantelope, watermelon, apples & grapes for their fruits. NOTHING ELSE!!! (goodbye sweet potatoes, tomatoes, plums, and mangoes! farewell pumpkin seeds, nuts & yogies) Their insect fare will consist of mealworms (NO CRICKETS to eliminiate the possibility of any aflotoxins "skewing" the test results) and MAYBE grasshoppers and Japanese beetles with Bourbon's blessing (not discussed, not included yet). And IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING that BML will be in their cages EACH AND EVERY NIGHT (admittedly, this has been an addition in my suggies' diet only for the past 2-3 weeks....for Moon & Ernie, it was 4 DAYS....mega-applause to Bourbon for sharing the "new" mixing method for BML that FINALLY tasted good enough for them to eat it!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

Exercise is such a NON-ISSUE because I hear EVERYONE'S wheel spinning nightly....and they're allowed at least 30 minutes per family to have "outside play" time. That can be expanded if anyone out there thinks this is not adequate, but with 4 cages to "rotate", it takes a good share of my evening (MIND YOU, I'M NOT BEGRUDGING....just the facts).

As I said before, I'm on a course to FIND SOME ANSWERS for myself, my babies, and for ALL OF YOU OUT THERE! I will keep you all posted as things progress. I will also accept every spare hug & prayer you can send our way. Modifications are never easy, but they WILL BE DONE...for the good of the gliders!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />


Edited by minkasmom (07/23/06 09:42 AM)
_________________________
Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry

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#122784 - 07/23/06 01:20 PM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
sounds like you have a great plan of action. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> I have an abundance of prayers and hugs to share, so here you go: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#122785 - 07/24/06 10:58 AM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />I HAVE SOME FANTASTIC NEWS TO SHARE WITH EVERYONE!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" />

I called my vet's office this morning, and he told me that there was an article written RECENTLY concerning sugar gliders having diabetes!! This article discussed not only the exsistence of it, but also MEDICATIONS that are available *IF* the diagnosis indicates the necessity for it!! A simple urine sample can tell us whether or not we need to delve into blood work to confirm the existence of diabetes......SO all of my "M" children will be going into the vet's tomorrow morning to get the urine tests done & we're going to take things from there. I'm VERY VERY OPTIMISTIC that the babies will be more than willing to give me a sample when we get there, it's just going to get a bit tedious keeping track of who has & who hasn't given a sample.....I'll have 3 pouches with me, pull one out, get the test done, put that one back into a DIFFERENT pouch and REPEAT six times over.

I just couldn't WAIT to share all this with everyone <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" /> Keep the <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> and prayers coming for all of us!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" />

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#122786 - 07/24/06 12:47 PM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....I HAVE SOME FANTASTIC NEWS TO SHARE WITH EVERYONE!!!!!.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"] Thanks for the information. That is very interesting!! Do you know who wrote the paper and what vet school they are associated with?? [/]

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#122787 - 07/24/06 04:12 PM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


My husband (DPJ) has Type I Diabetes (Juvenile). Neither of his parents, none of his grandparents have it, but out of five children, three (including my husband) have diabetes.

Type I (at least in humans) is VERY rare. Researchers are still not sure what exactly causes Type I, but they do believe it is a combination of a genetic disorder and an illness (like the cold). After the onset of this unknown illness, the body for some reason sees the pancreas as a threat and attacks it until it is destroyed. This is because Type I can happen at any age in childhood, and with the rare case (as with my husband) later in years (he was in his early 20's).

Two of David's brothers have had children (5 total) and so far none have it (in their teens).


Type II Diabetes is the more common type. This can occur at any age, and is usually attributed with obesity. Those with Type II intake so many carbs (sugar is a carbohydrate - they don't count the sugars they take in, they count the carbs) that their pancreas (the organ that distributes insulin) can't keep up.

In humans, those with Type II diabetes can lose diabetes if they control their diet and exercize.

Those with Type I, their pancreas is destroyed and will never work again.

A forewarning - with diabetes, there is a risk when insulin isn't taken (and blood sugar levels get too high). There is also a risk if too much insulin is taken. When blood sugar levels crash, it occurs quickly. Either way can result in death.

I don't know how close diabetes in sugar gliders is to diabetes in humans. But I thought this may help you out.

If they are similar, and if the poor glider that died of diabetes had type II, there is little risk to any glider related. If she died of type I, her relatives may not be exposed to it yet and it may happen at any time.

I really hope this little lesson was helpful

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#122788 - 07/24/06 07:54 PM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4212
Loc: Garland, TX
I just wanted to say that I too am a type I (or "childhood") diabetic - even tho' I am now 30+. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> What Minnie Mouse said previously is very true! Low blood sugar can be worse than high in the short term. Type I is considered genetic (at least the tendency toward it), but type II is not. From what I have read about other animals with diabetes, it is more closely related to type II, which is related to diet. Type II diabetics can have low blood sugar, but it is more rare. Hope your babies are good and that they (and you) don't have to deal with such a difficult disease! Keep us updated on the diagnosis!
_________________________
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Chairman Meow
Oscar & Thomas
Sam, Diego, Delilah, Delia :wfb:
Nevada, Noel
Marcel, Dakota, Latte
Dexter, Didi, Almond, Joy and Fitz
:grey:
Karl,Lenny,Jynxie,Chamille, Kee & Mr. Beans in my heart forever.
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#122789 - 07/24/06 08:50 PM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
To quickly answer your question, Randy, I was so excited to hear that an article had been written that I didn't catch that much information. I remember Doc Kerley said something about it being on the veterinarian's Information Network. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he may share a copy of it with me (or print it or whatever) because he led me to believe that it's one of those "for vets' eyes only" publications.

I've learned about diabetes through friends around me: what happens if sugar levels get too high, and how quickly a diabetic coma can set on when they go too low.

I'll try to find out & share that with all of you.
_________________________
Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry

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#122790 - 07/24/06 09:38 PM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"]Thanks!! I suspected it might be a paper that the layman would have a difficult time accessing. It would be interesting to see a copy.....even though probably 80% of it would be over out heads. Hope you can get a copy of it. [/]

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#122791 - 07/25/06 01:32 AM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


A couple additions to Minnie's excellent post:

First Diabetes in general - Both forms of diabetes have a genetic predisposition. Neither inherits automatically, but certain HLA genes are strongly linked to the ability to develop it. In type I (the old name juvenile onset - a bad name as adults can get it and now we see more teens with type II) the immune system attacks the pancreatic islet cells. They are the ones that make insulin. In the first of two models of type I, we believe an antibody made to take out a germ accidentally attacked the islet cells which had a similar three-dimensional structure. Most type I's present in a manner compatible with that mode. The other model involves a germ directly having a lethal effect on islet cells. Those patients present with a dramatically fast progression and don't "honeymoon" as most type I's do. Type I is irreversible, and will necessitate insulin.

Type II also has a genetic predisposition, but is not as strongly penetrant in families as type I. Those patients initially make insulin, but their tissues are resistant to it. Type II tends to progress over time, and most patients that have it long enough will eventually benefit from insulin addition because the natural history is to begin to fail on oral meds alone. It is not caused solely by diet. It is not caused solely by diet. It is not caused solely by diet. Many overweight patients can develop it, but so can thin ones without excessive carbs in the diet.

This glider - The initial post is very brief and not a lot of information is included, but there is plenty there to make one suspicious that Moonbeam did not have diabetes. At least there are many other possible explanations compatible with dehydration and kidney failure that are not caused by diabetes. During dehydration from any cause, the kidneys will shut down. To pickle a kidney due to elevated sugars, it takes a very long time. Blood sugars that are high enough and high long enough to ruin a kidney would give other symptoms well before a sudden death with kidneys already badly damaged. This does not fit together as a picture of a diabetic death. It just plain doesn't.

Many sick animals will have an elevated blood sugar from stress that is an expected response under extreme duress, and is not diabetes. Any sick one that has not eaten or drank well due to the illness on the way to dehydration will spill ketones as the body's metabolism shifts to one of burning fat during a fasting state. Normal stuff.

One other glider owner reported their veterinarian suspected diabetes that didn't make sense a while back. We mailed a glucose test machine to her and tested him, and he had normal sugars. Given that Moonbeam can't be tested, it is impossible to make a definitive diagnosis at this point. But this picture is not one of diabetes, for what it's worth in the pursuit of testing the rest of the pedigree.

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#122792 - 07/25/06 01:45 PM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
Schlep, I am in TOTAL AGREEMENT with you concerning the possibility of a mis-diagnosis! There is a pathological report from the veterinarian who did the necropsy on Moonbeam, and I firmly believe that answers are going to be found there! (we are STILL trying to get our hands on that report....one way or another, we WILL SUCCEED!!)

I'm VERY DELIGHTED AND RELIEVED to report that the glucose tests done on all the suggies from her colony came back NEGATIVE!!! The vet and I had quite the "processing line" going on: pull one out, encourage him/her to give us a sample, he'd do the test while I weighed & noted results, wipe the table & start over.

As you requested, Randy, I have more info on where this article came from: Exotic DVM Magazine, published in 2004, author(s) name begins with the letter "H"; these people are co-chairs of the International Conference for Exotics. Doc hasn't been able to find the EXACT article, but these are the things he remembers. And he IS still trying to find it and he WILL give me a copy....I'm in agreement that it probably has some INTENSE medical terminologies, but that's where a medical dictionary & ask.com will be handy, right?
_________________________
Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry

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#204988 - 01/22/07 03:42 AM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It'd be interesting to see the info and who wrote it.

Diabetes is a hereditary recessive disorder, but it can also be brought about by lifestyle choices and diet or other health conditions.

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#205011 - 01/22/07 06:55 AM Re: Is Diabetes Hereditary in Suggies? [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I'm glad all is going well for your bunch. With Chronos, the initial diagnosis was diabetes based on urine markers....but what it was was a UTI and scent gland infection that affected the kidneys...and that can mimic diabetes. The blood tests didn't support the diagnosis-ruled it out in fact. He's still struggling with those dratted scent glands on/off (and we're considering surgery). Please keep us updated if you find out anything else, and thank you for all the info so far.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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