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#1229652 - 02/17/12 08:13 AM Fighting
miker300
Unregistered


I have two female gliders. They fight every night. It seems like one is very dominant over the other. They seem to only fight after I have put food into the cage. I used to keep dry food in the cage so they could eat whenever they wanted some. I would add fruits and vegetables at night and they would fight over them. I noticed that they were looking a little overweight so I talked to the people who I buy my food from and they said I should only give about 10 pieces per glider per night, so I stopped leaving the dry food in the cage. Now the fighting has increased. They sleep together in the same pouch and they play together too, but when food is introduced the one goes crazy. She will actually put her food down and chase the other one for several seconds. The entire time, they are both screaming. I try to leave food in seperate areas of the cage so they can go to neutral corners, but they still don't get along.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Has this happened to anyone else?

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#1229655 - 02/17/12 08:21 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
sitkasmom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 3039
Loc: Finally in the Mountains!
Are you talking about actual knock down drag out fighting, wrestling or tiffing (hissing and crabbing at each other) ?

sounds like they are food aggressive. My girls can be that way too... Especially if there is something for dinner that they love...

I have found putting multiple food dishes in complete opposite corners of the cage helps keep it in check. I have the two girls. I put in three bowls. One glider can not guard all three bowls at the same time.

They still squabble but thats roommates for you.

If you can yell "Hey!" Or "Knock it off" or clap your hands and they seperate, its not the hard core fighting to the death you have to worry about..
_________________________
"Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy."

Two Boys
Sitka,
Pudge

Monkeys:
Nanuk, Dayz & Elfie
MudBug & Tista
Teemo & Rune (Cyndra gangel )
Lils, Razz & Nut


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#1229660 - 02/17/12 08:28 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
miker300
Unregistered


Yes, I am talking about hissing, crabbing and biting. It almost sounds like two cats fighting each other. I have even witnessed the aggressive one biting and hanging on while the other is trying to run away. If I go in and try to seperate them, they don't stop. The only way I can get to them to stop is to open the cage and the one being chased runs up and sits on my shoulder to finish her mouthful of food.
I have two locations on either side of the cage where I put food. They don't have to eat from the same dish at all.

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#1229663 - 02/17/12 08:30 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
etrnalsunshinee Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 1714
Loc: New Jersey
Also, you can try getting an opaque glider kitchen and putting one set of food dishes inside and leaving the other outside. That way the food aggressive glider won't see the other eating and get so riled up smile :gluck:
_________________________
Amy

:wfb: Micah
:wfb: Momo

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#1229670 - 02/17/12 08:37 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
sitkasmom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 3039
Loc: Finally in the Mountains!
Originally Posted By: miker300
Yes, I am talking about hissing, crabbing and biting. It almost sounds like two cats fighting each other. I have even witnessed the aggressive one biting and hanging on while the other is trying to run away. If I go in and try to seperate them, they don't stop. The only way I can get to them to stop is to open the cage and the one being chased runs up and sits on my shoulder to finish her mouthful of food.
I have two locations on either side of the cage where I put food. They don't have to eat from the same dish at all.


You need more than two places for food with them. I wouldn't use a kitchen because the less aggressive one can get cornered. I would suggest getting some of the hanging food bowls and put them all over the cage. Make it so they can't guard all of them at the same time. Make it so they have to forage for their dinner, that way they are concentrating on finding food, not guarding it.
_________________________
"Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy."

Two Boys
Sitka,
Pudge

Monkeys:
Nanuk, Dayz & Elfie
MudBug & Tista
Teemo & Rune (Cyndra gangel )
Lils, Razz & Nut


Top
#1229674 - 02/17/12 08:44 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
miker300
Unregistered


Actually one of the places where I put the food is inside a large fabric cube that has two exits. The aggressive one (Sky) grabs food and goes into the exercise wheel and the other usually goes into the cube, but the aggressive one seeks out the other (Gizmo).

I have been trying different things for a couple of months.

Another curious thing is that Sky is the aggressor towards Gizmo, but she is the nicer of the two to me. She will cuddle and sleep with me, and Gizmo is the one who will not lay still with me.

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#1229677 - 02/17/12 08:50 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Originally Posted By: miker300
I have two female gliders. They fight every night. It seems like one is very dominant over the other. They seem to only fight after I have put food into the cage. I used to keep dry food in the cage so they could eat whenever they wanted some. I would add fruits and vegetables at night and they would fight over them. I noticed that they were looking a little overweight so I talked to the people who I buy my food from and they said I should only give about 10 pieces per glider per night, so I stopped leaving the dry food in the cage. Now the fighting has increased. They sleep together in the same pouch and they play together too, but when food is introduced the one goes crazy. She will actually put her food down and chase the other one for several seconds. The entire time, they are both screaming. I try to leave food in seperate areas of the cage so they can go to neutral corners, but they still don't get along.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Has this happened to anyone else?



First, I urge you to take a look at the recognized diets out there for gliders.

This definitely sounds like food aggression, but what I'm concerned about is that they are fighting for food because they simply aren't getting ENOUGH and it begins to be a fight or flight type situation.

It's important for gliders to have a well balanced, nutritious meal plan. If you click on the word diet, it will take you to a page of links. There, you can look at each diet and decide which is right for you. In the meantime, with the aggression that is going on, here are the steps to take:

1) Choose a diet. While doing so, make sure they have ample sources of GOOD food. You can make scrambled eggs (no oils, no seasonings), boiled chicken (again, no oils, seasonings), some chicken babyfood, and a large variety of fruits and veggies. EVERY single night. For your two gliders, I recommend a Two TABLESPOONS of each protein source (babyfood, chicken, eggs) and 3 TABLESPOONS of fruits and veggies PER GLIDER. I know this sounds like a lot of food, and it is - there will likely be food left over. That's good and what needs to happen now. They need to learn that there will always be enough food there for each of them and that they don't have to fight for the last morsel.

2) Of those things I mentioned above, you need to spread the food throughout the cage, every night. This means SEVERAL feeding dishes, foraging toys, etc. in ALL parts of the cage. Some up high, some down low, some hanging on the walls of the cage, some hanging toys. Put EACH of the foods in every feeding dish. You want to make sure that there are many feeding stations so that no one glider can police each and every place.

3) Make sure the food is out BEFORE they wake at night.

These things should be done until the aggression subsides. Once they are on a regular diet, then you feed the diet, but with EXTRA amounts, as mentioned above - again, until the behavior goes away. At this point, you can taper back a bit, little by little, but always making sure there is plenty of food in the cage and in many different places or the behavior may begin again.

Food aggression is not uncommon, but it's important that it is taken care of before anyone becomes injured. Look at the diets today and find one that works and get them on it. It is very important for their health and well being.
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1229678 - 02/17/12 08:53 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
sitkasmom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 3039
Loc: Finally in the Mountains!
That's their personality.... They are all different thumb

I would recommend not using the cube for feedings. Use multiple stations. Try hiding the food in little foraging cups for them to search for it.
_________________________
"Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy."

Two Boys
Sitka,
Pudge

Monkeys:
Nanuk, Dayz & Elfie
MudBug & Tista
Teemo & Rune (Cyndra gangel )
Lils, Razz & Nut


Top
#1229697 - 02/17/12 09:52 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
miker300
Unregistered


Thanks DC & sitkasmom for the replies.

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#1229706 - 02/17/12 10:22 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
GidgetsMom Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 361
Loc: MI
Yes, I have to agree with Aimee (of course!). I hope you find a diet you feel comfortable with. The fruits and veggies are way better for their health vs the pellets. Plus you may even see a huge improvement in their coloring!

Good luck. smile
_________________________
Jen

Mommy to girls Gidget, Gizmo and
our new additions Guinness & Genevieve


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#1229707 - 02/17/12 10:26 AM Re: Fighting [Re: GidgetsMom]
sitkasmom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 3039
Loc: Finally in the Mountains!
Oh! And I forgot to add.. When doing treats make sure you give them both one at the SAME time.... One will eat theirs faster than the other and try to steal it. Tell them NO.

If you can't do the same treat in the pouch, when they are out you can do one in each hand on opposite sides of the cage.

They'll calm down when they are on a better diet and learn that the food and treats are never ending :rofl2:
_________________________
"Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy."

Two Boys
Sitka,
Pudge

Monkeys:
Nanuk, Dayz & Elfie
MudBug & Tista
Teemo & Rune (Cyndra gangel )
Lils, Razz & Nut


Top
#1229710 - 02/17/12 10:34 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
miker300
Unregistered


That's just the thing. They have always fought. No matter what diet they have been on. Ever since I introduced them to each other, they have fought at feeding times.

I haven't given up hope. I will keep trying.

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#1229716 - 02/17/12 10:45 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
sitkasmom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 3039
Loc: Finally in the Mountains!
Good smile Make sure they are on a healthy diet as Aimee (DCMuffin) suggested, and put their food all over the cage in different locations.

Keep treats for when you can supervise and control distribution.

When you see them fighting clap your hands, Holler No, or make a loud noise. When they stop and look at you tell them "No fighting" or "Knock it off"...
_________________________
"Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy."

Two Boys
Sitka,
Pudge

Monkeys:
Nanuk, Dayz & Elfie
MudBug & Tista
Teemo & Rune (Cyndra gangel )
Lils, Razz & Nut


Top
#1229737 - 02/17/12 11:18 AM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
For food aggressive gliders, the clapping, noises, etc. is not going to make them stop. This is a different scenario than regular bickering/fighting.

miker - do as I say in my post above. Feed loads of food and in many, many places throughout the cage. This is both about what diet you feed (because a poor diet will result in their bodies craving what they aren't getting) and the amount they are getting. Their behavior says to me that they aren't getting enough food or enough of something IN the food and this is why they are fighting.
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1229757 - 02/17/12 12:22 PM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
miker300
Unregistered


Let me describe the diet I have for them. I don't know if I can say the name of the website here, but I have bought a "chow" off of a seemingly reputable glider page. I give them that nightly, about 10 pieces each per night. Then I cycle between, 2 slices of fresh apple or about an ounce of mixed vegetable or about 5 pieces of dried fruits each(raisins, prunes, i.e.). I tried using the HPW complete for a while and to be honest, I think they were fighting then as well, but it seems to be worse lately.


The only thing I don't do is I don't have the food in there before they wake up. I go to bed about 11pm every night and they are usually up and stirring about 9:30 or 10pm. I tend to feed them right before I go to bed.

I am going to try to feed them before they wake and maybe give a little more.

Do you guys feed more than once a day?

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#1229763 - 02/17/12 12:34 PM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
sitkasmom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 3039
Loc: Finally in the Mountains!
Pellet diets are not recommened as a staple diet for gliders.

The HPW Complete is a nice diet. I just switched my boogers to it. I like that I can serve any fruits and veggies with it. I can also make the HPW Complete with Green Juice to mix things up and I know they are getting fruits and veggies with that...

Please do what DCMuffin advised, with the multiple feeding dishes....
_________________________
"Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy."

Two Boys
Sitka,
Pudge

Monkeys:
Nanuk, Dayz & Elfie
MudBug & Tista
Teemo & Rune (Cyndra gangel )
Lils, Razz & Nut


Top
#1229780 - 02/17/12 01:19 PM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Feeding a pellet food solely as their staple diet is just not as nutritious or well balanced as can be. It's possible their little bodies are just craving more. I'm curious, when you were feeding HPW, what were you feeding for fruits and veggies?

Try giving them the extra protein sources I told you about (babyfood, etc), putting one of each in every single dish, along with fruits and veggies. Do more than just apples or a veggie or two. Go to the grocery store, have fun in the produce section, go home and cut it up, toss it all in a bowl, mix it and then spoon it out in the several dishes, along with those protein sources. Feed it before they wake up. Remember that this behavior will not end overnight, it's going to be a process. Overfeed, it's very important with food aggression, so that there's food left over. I know it seems like a waste, but eventually, you can taper it back to an amount closer to what they will actually eat.
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1229785 - 02/17/12 01:24 PM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
I realize I didn't answer your last question about feeding more than once a day. Do you see your gliders get up during the day at all? You can always leave a snack in the cage throughout the day and in fact, that would be a much better use for your pellet food than as a staple in their diet at night. Put a few pieces in a dish in case they want to get up for a snack and that way, if anyone is hungry, they can come out and munch. But typically, no...they get fed once - at night and do so all night long.
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1229786 - 02/17/12 01:27 PM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
miker300
Unregistered


I know this might be bad, but I have always had pellet food. I was buying it from PetSmart and decided to try this new food from the website. I had a sample of it and they loved it. When I was using the HPW Complete I would take the frozen vegetables and blend them up and mix them in a blender and combine it with the HPWC in ice cube trays. I have always supplemented with dried and fresh fruits (mostly apples) as well. I haven't given much in the way of protein. I always assumed the pellets contained the protein they needed. I might try the scrambled eggs and see if that helps. The baby food also seems like a good idea.

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#1229788 - 02/17/12 01:31 PM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Unfortunately, there's much lacking in the dietary needs when it comes to pellets. And this is why I asked about HPW Complete, too. On the Complete diet, along with the mix itself, you also feed fruits and veggies. You should never just supplement with a fruit or a veggie. They should be an integral part of a glider's diet and a large source of water content, as well. Something that is ESPECIALLY important when feeding a pellet food because of the lack of any source of water at all.

Anyway...this is getting off topic of the behavior but I'll be more than happy to talk with you more via PM about it and you can always start yourself a new thread (or read the existing ones) in diet & Nutrition.
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1229791 - 02/17/12 01:41 PM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
miker300
Unregistered


It is possible the behavior is tied to the nutrition. I will try to improve their diet and see if that helps.

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#1229854 - 02/17/12 06:52 PM Re: Fighting [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
So glad to hear it - please keep us posted on the behavior and we're here for any questions you have. smile
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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