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#123074 - 07/23/06 02:29 AM Glass enclosure okay?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello All,
I'm a newbie with sugar gliders. We just purchased a pair of 4 month old gliders, 'sugar' and 'spice', and I am going to be building their enclosure. They are temporarily in a large bird cage.
I want to display them in our living room/hearth room area so the enclosure has to be something other than a bird cage and fit with the rest of the decor.
One of my hobbies is trim carpentry, so I will be building their display enclosure.
I was planning on a vertical glass enclosure, sitting on a small pedestal type cabinet with a PVC coated screen bottom and slide out tray underneath for cleaning. The cabinet will also act as storage. The top of the enclosure will have a full PVC coated screen top with a flourescent light for evening viewing and a blue LED moonlight for ocassional night time viewing.
The habitat section of the enclosure will measure 30" wide x 30" long x 60" tall.
I will be placing two small 4" fans in the top, one blowing in and one blowing out that will be on a repeat cycle timer that will activate for 5 minutes every hour. I was hoping this would keep the odor down and provide adequate ventilation.
There will be plenty of climbing branches inside.
Is this acceptable if there is plenty of circulation, climbing oppurtunities, and places to sleep/hide?
Here is a very rough sketch of what I'm considering:
[]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/sonofgaladriel/sugarglidercage.jpg[/]
Also, is there a way to give a sugar glider a 'bath'? I was told that a water bath is out of the question, but that there is some kind of 'dust' or 'spray' that can be used to help keep them smelling nice. Any suggestions?
Thank you all,
Sean


Edited by SonOfGaladriel (07/24/06 09:20 AM)

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#123075 - 07/23/06 04:45 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
Hi Sean, Welcome to Glider Central. It's great to have you with us. While your cage idea does show alot of thought, I do have a few concerns. Depending on the strength of your fan, I'm not sure how much ventilation it would actually provide, and am not sure that a fan blowing directly into the glider cage would be wise. We generally recommend that room fans and vents do not blow directly at/on the glider cage. Also while you may have plenty of branches, you have no way of hanging them higher up in the cage.
Also.......how are you going to get into your glider cage?
If you want to have a glass or plexiglass front on your cage to allow for unimpared viewing, I certainly don't see a problem with that, but it may be better to have coated wire the other sides for ventilation and to provide hanging surfaces.
As to bathing gliders, they generally don't need it. They are very clean animals and should take care of grooming needs on their own. If they do get dirty beyond their capability to clean, the best way to bathe them would be to take a warm, damp washcloth and wrap your suggie in it. As they wiggle free, they give themselves a bath. Then you would need to keep them warm, and out of drafts until they dry.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



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#123076 - 07/23/06 08:25 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The cage sounds fantastic, however, as Chris said, I don't think it would be practical for gliders. There are many alternatives available online for customized cage items and accessories.

My store specializes in cage items that match your home decor. I love all the cute fleece type items, but I don't want them in my livingroom or to be the first thing people see when they walk into my home so my sister and I offer alternatives to that. We can make custom cage covers, etc., that will match your home decor'. You don't have to have a garish cage just because you have gliders! If you don't see fabric that you like, you can send photos of your existing decor and we can work with that as well.

I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, maybe Custom Cage Works, but they make some pretty fancy schmancy glider cages and you might get some inspiration on how to convert your idea into one that might work out for you.

FYI..my brother has two neutered boys so they're not as smelly as an intact male glider..he keeps them in a large closet. The closet actually has a window with a fan that draws out air and circulates fresh air...It does NOT alleviate the smell even though he keeps the cage pretty clean.

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#123077 - 07/23/06 09:09 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


With an enclosure made with glass/plexiglass, how can gliders jump all over? It would almost be like a glider going splat against the glass and slide right down. Gliders need exercise hence they need safe wire (pvc-coated wire is very highly recommended) so they can jump all over the place.

I am also worried about ventilation. Glass enclosure would trap the gliders' scents inside. I would not want to have air blown constantly at my face.

While the size of the enclosure is very nice, I would steer clear of flat panels such as glass/plexiglass. That is my opinion.


Jen

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#123078 - 07/23/06 09:16 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Please no glass they need to climb. Cage sounds great but not for a glider.Look at others cage ideas

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#123079 - 07/23/06 12:11 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Great looking cage but I dont think its ideal for gliders either, with mesh they have all the sides to climb on and run around giving them more exercise, also it give you lots of options to where you hang and put stuff for them. I dont think they will like the fan and they dont like lights so how about making a cage using mesh instead of glass as you certaintly sound clever enough. Good luck and be sure to post a pic of your cage when uv made it.Have a look at the cage posts and you will get some great ideas. Ive attached a pic of the cage I made and they love it.


Attachments
604346-ResizeWizard-1.jpg (113 downloads)


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#123080 - 07/23/06 12:24 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


You are very talented to make an enclosure like that. I just want to share a link to give you more ideas. Istead of having the whole thing made of plexi glass. maybe you can have the top, sides and bottom made with wiring so that your glider can run around, you can hang things, and also get plenty of ventilation. I think these cages are beautiful. Maybe they will inspire you. Cages by Design

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#123081 - 07/23/06 01:00 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: anjill_tree]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow those cage are amazing....I want one!!!!!

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#123082 - 07/23/06 01:04 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


yes they are gorgeous. you can send for a free catalog. you can also use their calculator to see how much it would cost you to create a custom cage. It is very expesive but I am sure it would look beautiful!

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#123083 - 07/23/06 04:49 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: anjill_tree]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh, that is the company I was trying to think of above. I have their catalog and their cages are AWESOME. I'm getting a parrot soon and I've been checking those out and, they will customize them for suggies too.

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#123084 - 07/23/06 05:23 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Welcome to GliderCENTRAL, Sean! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

How great that you have the skills and talent to build a nice cage! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

I, however, must agree with the expressed concerns. Ideally, gliders would have a large enclosure that they can glide (or at least, leap) around in, from cage side to cage side. With glass or plexiglass walls, even with branches in the cage, there really isn't a safe and effective place for them to land. How about if you designed a corner cage, and made two sides (as well as the top and bottom) with the pvc-coated wire, and the front panel a large glass door that opens? The front could also include strips of the pvc-coated wire, which (with your talent), could be artfully included. You'd need to make sure the cage isn't flush against the corner so air can circulate, but maybe that would help.

You'll also want to think about where you can place or hang toys such as a glider-safe exercise wheel, or where you'll put their feeding stations and water bottles. With glass walls, there's no place to hang shelves, or anything. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

The slide-out tray at the bottom is a definite must! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> So is having built-in storage (although with my accessories, I'd need storage at least the size of the cage <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> ).

The cages in that site by Cages By Design are incredible. Well out of my price range, but with your talent, probably something you could make or incorporate into your designs, eh?

You'll definitely have to post pictures after your masterpiece is completed!
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

• 2003: Hiroshi (M)
• 2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
• 2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#123085 - 07/23/06 05:36 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Hello Neighbor, I'm in Prescott KS, about an hour south of you! Welcome to GC!

Anyway, One of our members makes her cages out of plexiglass similiar to what you have in mind. And I have to admit, my first reaction to them was the same as the reactions you are getting above. However, I got a chance to see one for myself in Feb. and got to say...I LOVED IT!

The gliders tend to play more with toys and jump around the cage even more compared to just running on the wire sides of the cage.

With a safe (no galvanized wire) mesh bottom on it for waste to fall through and a mesh top, there will be plenty of ventilation. I don't know about the lighting though. A low watt red or blue light for night time would probably be fine but I wouldn't suggest the floresant light during the day time. They should be in a room that is exposed to natural light changes so their internal clock doesn't get messed up.
Using plexi glass, you can drill holes in the sides to allow a way to hang more things such as pouches and food dishes that you would have a difficult time doing with actual glass.

Just remember to properly treat all wood with either shallac or poly urithane or you will just be wasting your time and money. Once urine has a chance to soak in, it will stink forever.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#123086 - 07/23/06 05:55 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
ScootersPet Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/09/05
Posts: 2092
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Kayla (kaylasglidergoodies.com---AKA Butlerfamilyzoo) Uses plexi-glass cages. She said she wont use anything else for her babies. Her cages are very nice looking. HERE is a link to her site..if you scroll down a little bit, you can see a picture of a cage that she has for sale with two boys, it is VERY nice looking and if you have enough ventalation and things for them to climb on, i think it will be fine <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________



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#123087 - 07/23/06 07:56 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
I currently own not only Kaylas gliders, but also the plexiglass cage. I must say in the beginning when Kayla first mentioned her cage on here I was one of the first to bombard her with questions and doubts. Then at the SGR in Texas (along with Dancing and many others) we were able to see one first hand. I changed my mind when I saw it and discussed it with her intensely. She answered every single question I had for her.
Since I have brought her babies here with me to live I must say I enjoy watching the gliders in that cage. Granted, they can not use the sides of the cage itself, however, they do use every single toy that is hanging up and show no problems of getting around in there from top to bottom. Not once have I ever seen one hit the side or even try to jump to it.
It has mesh wire on both the top and bottom for ventilation and stuff hanging from the top part as well. It is very easy to clean and as far as the lighting goes....well they need no additional lighting in there at all.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#123088 - 07/23/06 09:26 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Well, color me corrected! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I really have only ever seen this type of cage set-up (well, not as nice, of course) in pet stores, where they didn't seem to know much about gliders. I definitely would've thought it'd be awkward, stuffy, and even a bit stinky for them. Huh. Good to know! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

• 2003: Hiroshi (M)
• 2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
• 2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#123089 - 07/23/06 10:10 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Katty, I'm right there with you..I would never have thought a plexi glass cage would be suitable. But you do indeed learn something new every day <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/agree.gif" alt="" />

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#123090 - 07/23/06 10:32 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Me three! I have never seen one but I would take Teresa's and Peggy's word for it.


Jen

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#123091 - 07/24/06 12:03 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
I guess if it has air holes drilled here & there in the plexiglass it wouldn't be too bad. Plus it would allow you more hanging space. I'd like to see it when it's finished.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



Top
#123092 - 07/24/06 09:13 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello All,
Thank you for the welcome and of course the replies and suggestions. I am reconsidering the enclosure design based on the suggestions above. If I can find it, I may use a heavy gauge PVC coated weld wire for the sides and use glass for the front and back. I think this would be a great compromise. The problem is, I can't find any of this 1/2"x1/2" weld sire anywhere in town that is 30" wide.
I've tried my Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware. I'll be making trips to Sutherlands and try to find a 'feed' store today with hopes of finding some.
Oh, there was some concern as to how I would access the all glass enclosure. The front and back glass pane would be hinged with special glass hinges. The would swing out just like a door.
Also, the small 4" computer type fans will be on repeat cycle timers and would only come on for 5 minutes each 30 to 60 minutes. This would act more like a subtle 'breeze' and I doubt would bother the gliders.
The 24" flourescent lighting would only be on for a few hours after sunset, 7PM to 10PM just to eluminate the enclosure for us, not for the gliders. After 10PM, only the small blue LED moonlight would be on.
I have looked at the thread showing off everyone's enclosures and there are some very nice ones. But I've noted that no one has tried to create a 'naturalistic' type of enclosure for their gliders. I was wanting to create a 'biotope' type set up for them with natural looking branches, maybe a few plants (appropriate real or fake ones), while keeping it easy to clean and be accessible. I will 'hide' alot of their 'toys' and exercise wheel from the main view behind plantings and the main climbing structure.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and opinions.
Sean


Edited by SonOfGaladriel (07/24/06 09:33 AM)

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#123093 - 07/24/06 09:28 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]I have only ever found the vinyl coated hardware cloth in 24" wide bolts. However, you may want to consider using pet-proof screening instead (similar to what they make reptariums out of) for the top & sides. You would still need to use the hardware cloth for the bottom though, so you might have to piece two sections together - maybe by stapling them to a wooden bar that spans the center.
Please do attach pictures when you have it completed - I would love to see your design! The basic sketch looks like it will be very nice <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />.
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#123094 - 07/24/06 09:33 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sean, I just looked up in the catalog I got from Klubertanz where I get the caging supplies. Klubertanz carries pvc-coated wire in 1/2"x1/2", 30" wide and it comes only in 16 gauge. Look up at this site, www.klubertanz.com and ask for Richard. He will be more than happy to help you. I have gone to Klubertanz numerous times and they are very helpful. I must warn you, though, that the shipping is a tad high, but so well worth it! All of our cages are built with the pvc-coated wire from Klubertanz and we love it!

I hope this helps.


Jen

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#123095 - 07/24/06 09:46 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you Jen! I needed that link! I'm going to give Richard a call right now.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#123096 - 07/24/06 10:04 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


You are welcome, Sean! Glad to help ya! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />


Jen

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#123097 - 07/24/06 10:35 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sean, your enclosure sounds beautiful - a little forest in your living room! The computer fans might be ok although my gliders absolutely hate any breeze at all and will not come out of their pouches if they can feel one. If you are concerned about air exchange in the cage, if you use mesh sides and no direct or reflected sunlight enter the cage, you probably don't need the fans. As to light: the moonlight effect is nice for our observation of the gliders but a red light will accomplish the same thing - make it easy for us to see them in action but will not damage their eyes. Zoos often use the moonlight effect with nocturnal animal displays out in the visitor area so that the visitors do not trip or fall. Inside the exhibit, they use red lights which utilize the part of the light spectrum that will not adversely affect the animals' eyes. Even moonlighting flourescents do not support ocular health for the gliders. Plexiglass on the back will certainly help w/food flinging. The best thing for odors is consistent cleaning. Diluted vinegar will work to clean the glass or plexiglass that will have little bits of chewed up food and urine on them. Puppy pads or depends pads are good below grate liners that absorb urine. Just make the interior easy to wash - a hose or shower spray after spraying all over w/a nontoxic cleaner will keep your cage clean. Good luck! Your gliders are lucky to share your talent, craftsmanship and creativity.

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#123098 - 07/24/06 11:29 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you all very much for the input and the compliments. I hope I can build this enclosure well enough to warrant your praise. I'll definately post some pics when its completed and 'sugar and spice' are in their new home.
I've noted over the past several days, that the gliders spend all day sleeping in their pouch/nest, so I don't think that the ocassional breeze from the fan will bother them but it will go along way in keeping the air fresh inside the enclosure. I'll program the timer so the fan is off during the night time hours though.
I appreciate the concern about the blue LED, but I really don't think a single blue LED will bother the gliders. I'll see what a red LED looks like, but I am partial to the 'blue' look, but I'll do what is best for the gliders. I will locate it up very high and near the back of the top screen so that it will only barely elluminate the enclosure, most of which would be in shadows from the large branches and such. Again, this light will only be on from 10PM to maybe midnight and then it will go off. No artificial lights will be on from midnight to 8PM. Only indirect light from the windows.
I'll definately be putting 'puppy pads' on the pull out tray to make waste removal easier.


Edited by SonOfGaladriel (07/24/06 11:31 AM)

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#123099 - 07/24/06 11:55 AM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


one note- if you don't mind the green hardware cloth- I have ordered it several times in 30" rolls through Ace, I can look up the part # or you can searhc my old posts if you can't get your store to look it up for you- it comes in small rolls that are 30" wide by I think its 5 ft long (I think thats why we made the cages the height we did...)

Amie

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#123100 - 07/24/06 12:04 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
ScootersPet Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/09/05
Posts: 2092
Loc: Baltimore, MD
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
one note- if you don't mind the green hardware cloth- I have ordered it several times in 30" rolls through Ace, I can look up the part # or you can searhc my old posts if you can't get your store to look it up for you- it comes in small rolls that are 30" wide by I think its 5 ft long (I think thats why we made the cages the height we did...)

Amie

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
LOL I did the same thing, got my wire from Home Depot 30" wide by 5' long, so my cage is 30" wide by 5' high by 15" deep. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________



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#123101 - 07/24/06 12:08 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


In my experience, the 1/2"x1/2" green vinyl-coated hardware cloth has a very thin coating thus it does not last as long as the pvc-coated wire which is obtained at Klubertanz. Over time, the vinyl coating of the hardware cloth will wear down and start rusting. My husband had two cages and three travel cages built with the hardware cloth and they all had to be replaced, because of rust.

When gliders are in contact with rust, it very commonly causes UTI (urinary tract infection) and it can be very costly to correct by the vet.


Jen

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#123102 - 07/24/06 12:58 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks guys, but I checked out the wire at ACE and its too thin, only 19 gauge. Plus, I agree with Jen that the section I'd have on the bottom would eventually rust from urine and fall apart after awhile.
I went ahead and ordered some 14 gauge 3/4" x 3/4" black coated hardware cloth from Klubertanz. Hopefully it will be here by Friday.
Thanks again everyone!
Sean

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#123103 - 07/24/06 03:03 PM Re: Glass enclosure okay? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


3/4"x3/4"? I am afraid that the spacings are too big. Gliders can easily squeeze out through that big of an opening. It is recommended that the bar spacings be no bigger than 1"x1/2".


Jen

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