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#1238613 - 03/13/12 12:37 PM Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders?
GliderFun Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 320
Loc: NY
I'm not sure if this is the right section. I started writing this thread in "Fact or Fiction" but thought this may be better suited for this thread.



I recently contacted LGRS after reading one of their petfinder ads and being appalled by the misinformation that may ACTUALLY be contributing to people dumping, re-homing, euthanizing, surrendering and overall abandoning their sugar gliders.

LGRS is a well known sugar glider rescue and sanctuary (from what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong). I haven't done significant research on this rescue to find out if they are 100% on the up and up or not, but from the small amount of research I have done, they seem to have a large online presence and most of their information is correct. They SEEM to be in it for the good of the glider, but yet, I find this. So I am unsure at this point, what to think.

They post in their ads:

"We do not ship animals because it is not healthy for them and can cause death and suffering."


I definitely think any well respected and legitimate rescue with plenty of online presence should NOT put misinformation like this in their ads.

I think it will hurt sugar gliders in the long run causing more to be abandoned when their owners, who must move for whatever reason, stumble upon this when searching for options in order to keep their beloved pets.

I think that if someone is on the fence about keeping their glider(s) or re-homing their glider due to the fact that they are worried about shipping their glider(s), this information from a supposed "reputable" source would be enough to push them over the edge and re-home, sell, euthanize, surrender, and abandon their sugar glider(s).

I have shipped my sugar gliders a number of times across the country in all kinds of weather and have never once had any issues. I move a lot so it's important to find the safest method to transport my gliders and I found that shipping via airline is not only quick, effective, but also extremely safe.

I know of several people who have shipped gliders for a number of years without incident.


Upon contacting them with my concerns for the sugar glider population I received a very short, vague, email from them. Also very disappointing. PM me for the info.

That was all. I did not receive anything on my concerns that their misinformation may be hurting sugar gliders all over the county, they did not address anything except that. I find that to be very unprofessional and for a rescue organization that is supposed to be reputable and that makes me uncomfortable about ever donating or supporting them in the future.

Now let me also address THEIR concerns. Yes, it is possible that a sugar glider can suffer and die during shipping.

It is also possible that we can be struck by lightening while getting struck by a car while walking across the street. It's possible but I feel that it's very unlikely in this day and age.

If the rescue does not want to deal with the HASSLE and EXPENSE of shipping sugar gliders, then that's another story, put THAT in your ad, but please don't put misinformation that may lead to the suffering of the very animal you came into existence to protect.


I was going to let it go, but after "sleeping on it" last night, I just can't sit back while a reputable and known source is possibly the cause for some gliders suffering and not caring about it (as per the response I received).





What are your thoughts on shipping sugar gliders?
What are your thoughts on the rest of this topic?

The above is my opinion on shipping gliders and my opinion on LGRS at this point. I just have concerns on the welfare of the gliders.


Edited by DCMuffin (03/13/12 01:31 PM)
Edit Reason: Edited text

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#1238619 - 03/13/12 01:07 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
jjmurph
Unregistered


I have not had any personal experience with Ed and Gail, but from what I have seen over in GG they are wonderful suggie slaves. One of the main reasons they do not ship is because before adopting a glider the new owner has to take several classes at their rescue. They are shown the proper care and husbandry needed to take care of Gliders. Honestly I don't think it is that awful of an idea not to ship. Yes, a lot of people ship and it isn't that bad, but there are also risks. I have a lot of respect for what Ed and Gail do. They have over 95 gliders among other animals at their rescue yet still time find time to help new owners over on GG.


Edited by jjmurph (03/13/12 01:09 PM)

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#1238620 - 03/13/12 01:08 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
animalloversfb Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 212
Loc: VA
I would suggest that you call and talk to them, and hopefully you will get more answers as to why they feel that way.

I know the main reason they do not ship is because they require all adopters to visit their Sanctuary and participate in a workshop on glider care. They want to meet the people they adopt to and be there to introduce the gliders to their new families. It is also harder to follow up or get the gliders back if the home doesn't work out if shipping has to be arranged(& paid for!)

I don't think that their statement is going to cause gliders to be given up - there is a difference when you are shipping your pets on the same flight you are on(aka with people they're familiar with), then to ship them to a completely new home. Yes, shipping can be done safely, but even well-recommended carriers can make mistakes or not follow protocol. And even if everything goes right, the sights/sounds of being at an airport and on the plane probably is very frightening to many animals.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe any of the sugar glider rescues out there ship on a regular basis - they typically arrange railroads or stick to local adoptions. I'd love if LGRS railroaded, but I completely respect the reasons they do not.
_________________________
Sara
http://sugarglidershowroom.weebly.com/

:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:

:rbridge:


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#1238621 - 03/13/12 01:08 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
AbtZooGirl Offline
New Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 5
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio. USA
Originally Posted By: GliderFun


They post in their ads:

"We do not ship animals because it is not healthy for them and can cause death and suffering."


I know of several people who have shipped gliders for a number of years without incident.

Upon contacting them with my concerns for the sugar glider population I received a very short, vague, email from them. Also very disappointing.

"we do not ship gliders like cargo or as online breeders do."


What are your thoughts on shipping sugar gliders?
What are your thoughts on the rest of this topic?


I'm quoting the parts I feel I might have knowledge enough to respond about... I don't know the owners of LGRS like some people do so I can only speak about my opinion and the things I've heard :\ Which I guess is what most of us do anyway! :D

1.) I think the suffering portion of their statement might more refer to the stress than can occur during the shipping process.

2.) Yes plenty of people have had no issues per well adjusted gliders. They seem to take the stress of shipment rather well. In this case, I think we're talking about rescues though right? Rescues may not always be adjusted well enough, confident enough, or whatever... to handle the traumatic experience it COULD be to ship. There ARE some people who've had problems with shipping but it seems to me that's the exception and not the rule, however it is up to the owners of the rescue to decide what is a safe method of delivering the glider to the right home. I'm sure, also, that it has more to do with wanting to meet potential owners also.

3.) The brief response is probably due to the fact that they get a lot of emails in general and would rather focus on the people interested in offering a home than those who have a problem with a practice they've used for so long.

4.) I don't like the idea of shipping gliders because it seems like a 'tag'em and bag'em" method. It's impersonal to me.. I wouldn't personally do it. I would rather drive the distance. It makes it worth seeing where the glider came from.

I hope what I had to say offered some perspective.

Lindsay
_________________________
Do three dogs, three birds, five ferrets, and two gliders qualify my house as a zoo?

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#1238624 - 03/13/12 01:33 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
GliderFun Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 320
Loc: NY
Thanks everyone.

I personally have absolutely no problem not allowing shipping as a rescue, not wanting to ship rescues etc.

I respect that they want to meet the potential adopters, have them attend classes, not wanting to POTENTIALLY stress out rescues (though a 5 hour road trip would also stress them), etc. Those are all great reasons not to ship gliders.



But why not say that in the ad instead of their current statement?



I don't agree with their current statement. At one point I did take in a few gliders from homes that couldn't keep them.

I heard on 2 occasions in my BRIEF time taking in a few gliders that, "I am moving, they can't come with me, I'm flying and it's unsafe to ship my gliders".

I hear that a lot with dogs and cats and I participated in dog/cat rescue for some time.



I think that it's especially important for our rescues to spread TRUTHS and not potential misinformation that could potentially cause people to dump their gliders (as they did in the case of the two I took in).



The times I shipped my gliders I was not on the same plane. I drove all my trips and never flew because I needed to drive with a moving van. My gliders flew either before me or after me depending on whether or not I had someone at the destination that I trusted with my gliders.

I believe pets are not disposable and you don't just dump them when you move, etc. I believe in doing the proper research on what to do with your pets in case you have to move, even if you don't think you are going to have to move. Shipping is a safe and viable option in order to not dump your family members.


I see it every day, "I don't want to bring my [dog, cat, etc] with me because I don't want my animal to suffer in the plane"

Those people dump their animals at shelters, on craigslist, etc.

Maybe I'm jaded from being part of rescue organizations and seeing this all the time, but I feel their statement can cause more bad than good and is completely unnecessary.

They seem to be pro education, it would be nice for them to EDUCATE on the FACTS of shipping. And if they are unaware of the FACTS, then they should do some more research. I read through their website and they did extensive dietary research and other research, but they are lacking in this department.


I also want to add I have nothing against their rescue, practices, etc. I think they stand for the good of the glider.

Maybe they are just uneducated with shipping gliders and don't realize how much harm an "authority" figure can cause by posting misinformation.

I was let down by their callus attitude towards my email.


Edited by GliderFun (03/13/12 01:34 PM)

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#1238627 - 03/13/12 01:39 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Ok, I'm going to give my input.

For years I did rescue work. And I did NOT ship any of the RESCUES to new homes. The reason is most rescues have already been through so much stress that I felt the added stress of shipping could cause further harm. Rescues are special needs from the get go. They either have had really bad lives where they were neglected (or worse) and have serious trust issues with humans. Add to that the shipping and all that MIGHT go wrong and there is a much higher risk of stress related death. If the rescue was from a great home, they may have bonded very well with their owners and now they are with strangers, scared, uncertain and stressed. Again, putting them through shipping causes more stress and can cause some real fear issues.

Meeting up with the new owners helps the rescuers to gauge if this particular "match" is a good match. Older gliders sometimes will take to one person but absolutely hate someone else. As a rescuer, it is their job to make sure each human/glider pairing is the best possible. Those face to face meetings usually are not possible if the glider is being shipped.

I have had gliders shipped to me and I've had both good and bad experiences with the process. I have also shipped gliders and fortunately, it went smoothly BUT...my stress levels were through the roof because of the bad experience I had previously. So I choose not to have gliders shipped and I choose not to ship EXCEPT as an extreme last option.

I do know that Ed and Gail stepped up and helped get some gliders shipped from Hawaii to them to prevent those gliders from being put down (Hawaii's policy).

I do also believe that in some rescue cases, where immediate medical attention is needed, shipping is often much better than a railroad as it does get the glider to help quicker. But it does add to the stress for the glider.


Perhaps Ed/Gail will alter their wording so that people don't think they can't take their gliders with them when they move?
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1238630 - 03/13/12 01:45 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: Dancing]
GliderFun Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 320
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Dancing
Ok, I'm going to give my input.

For years I did rescue work. And I did NOT ship any of the RESCUES to new homes. The reason is most rescues have already been through so much stress that I felt the added stress of shipping could cause further harm. Rescues are special needs from the get go. They either have had really bad lives where they were neglected (or worse) and have serious trust issues with humans. Add to that the shipping and all that MIGHT go wrong and there is a much higher risk of stress related death. If the rescue was from a great home, they may have bonded very well with their owners and now they are with strangers, scared, uncertain and stressed. Again, putting them through shipping causes more stress and can cause some real fear issues.







I definitely agree with most of this, though I haven't seen extensive fear issues due to shipping *shrug*


Again, I don't necessarily think NOT shipping rescues is a bad thing, that's not my *issue* here.

It's the fact that there is a negative blanket statement being passed around as fact by an "authority" figure that may cause undue distress for gliders when their owners choose to dump them rather than ship them due to seeing this statement.

I think the rescue could do a better job informing owners about their option to ship gliders rather than dump them, as well as removing that statement from all their petfinder ads as to not give owners the wrong idea if they are considering shipping their pets.

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#1238635 - 03/13/12 01:58 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
I haven't seen extensive fear issues due to shipping *shrug*


I have seen this extensive fear with a glider that was shipped to me. (she was not a rescue) She went through a very tramatic experience on her way here (long story). She still (6 years later) does not trust me. She does trust my husband to an extent though and became his glider.

I also had some rescues shipped to me from CA. Each of them had serious trust issues when they got here even though none of that behavior was seen by the rescuer in CA. Another group of rescues shipped out of CA did not survive the trip at all which caused severe trauma for the family that picked them up at the airport! They were expecting their new gliders and what they found when they opened the shipping crate were 7 dead gliders. Things CAN go wrong. Things DO go wrong.

I "get" what you are saying about their wording choice. I do. But I also "get" their standpoint on shipping gliders, especially rescues.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1238636 - 03/13/12 02:01 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I need to add...when doing railroads, the gliders are with humans, usually those experienced with gliders, that can check on them, provide fresh water/food to them and be able to get them to the vet along the way if that is needed. They can also be there to help reassure the gliders that they are safe. I've helped in many railroads and just feel it is the less stressful way for healthy, non emergency, transportations to take place. Best is for the owner to pick up their new glider.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1238637 - 03/13/12 02:04 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
GliderFun Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 320
Loc: NY
Interesting!!!

Were the gliders that were shipped to you, and the ones who passed away from CA all come from the same "rescue"?

Were they vet checked prior to boarding the plane?

Were they given something for moisture during their trip?

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#1238640 - 03/13/12 02:25 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Yes, both from the same rescue. Yes, they had vet checks prior to shipping. Yes, they all had fruit in with them.

Like I said, rescues are "different". Shipping your own bonded gliders when you are traveling is different from them going to a stranger. You know your gliders and are there to get them at their destination. You can know right away if there is a problem because you already know their personalities and temperaments. You know if they are "off".
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1238652 - 03/13/12 02:56 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
GliderFun Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 320
Loc: NY
I agree 100%.

Interesting to me that the exact same rescue shipped both gliders that had problems during shipping.

Again, I don't necessarily advocate shipping rescues.

I don't care whether or not they ship their rescues and I think it's better that they don't so they can get to know the new owners, have the gliders meet the owners prior to going home with them, etc.

But I think the statement in their ads can contribute to gliders being dumped instead of brought with their owners for irrational fear of something terrible happening.

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#1238664 - 03/13/12 04:05 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
animalloversfb Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 212
Loc: VA
Even in dog/cat rescue, you get that excuse and most dog/cat rescues simply state they do not ship without listing reasons(although some do and its usually that they want to meet the new family in person).

Its an excuse and people who want an excuse to dump their pets will use whatever one is convenient to justify it in their mind. If someone is going to re-home/euthanize/dump their pets because they saw that on LGRS's website and didn't get more information from them and other sources about shipping and how to do it safely, chances are they're using it as a way to justify to themselves why they "can't" keep them. I guarantee more people do not move with their gliders because they were getting tired of their care and they were one thing they didn't have to worry about how to transport. Those of us(like you) who want to keep our pets until they pass on would find out more information and transport them the safest ways possible.
_________________________
Sara
http://sugarglidershowroom.weebly.com/

:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:

:rbridge:


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#1238675 - 03/13/12 04:14 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
AmandaSnyder Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/17/11
Posts: 794
Loc: Wv,USA
I dont think it will contribute to anyone dropping there animal, if a person loves there pet and wants to keep them they will do whatever it takes.

They can research other places and talk to there vet about hipping and get there input.

All im saying is i dont think there statement makes people want to dump there animals yeah it might make them think it isnt safe.But if they have decided to dump there animals that is there decision and no one can force that appone them i know for a fact no matter what i read online or hear i will do whats best for my pets as they are part of my family.

I get what you are saying also. This is just my op
_________________________
Amanda Lynn Snyder
Mommy & Slave To:
3 young human boys(Caleb,Cayden,Cameron)
4 :grey: Ma & Pa/ Adam & Eve

1 :rtmo: Oreo 1 :lue: Almond :wfb: Joy
1 German Shepard JaJa
Most of all Very Happy Hubby!
RIP Twix i miss u!!!

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#1238678 - 03/13/12 04:18 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
JeremysDad Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 311
Loc: Raymond, NH, USA
Well they also use the wet intro method. They said it was an extreme case because they SM because of being alone. They posted it on GG.
_________________________
Jeremy, Lexie and Zoey
Mimi & Pepper, Skeeter, Beaker & Alladin, Nell & Ling
Group Leader - Mill Breeder Project

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#1238692 - 03/13/12 04:34 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
It would be wonderful if every website out there had accurate information, regardless of who owns the site.

I'm going to take a different stand on this. Personally, I feel that a railroad can be more stressful on a glider. The going from home to home to home, on the road multiple times for how many hours, dealing with several new people along the way...that all seems much more stressful than a few (to several) hour plan ride during their sleeping hours.

I know that some railroads on quick, and with only a couple of people involved. I also know that connecting flights can be missed and gliders can be sitting in a travel cage for several hours while awake.

Any mode of transportation CAN be stressful on a sugar glider. We just have to try to make whichever method we choose as low stress as possible for the gliders sake.

There are exceptions to every situation, to each their own.
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1238696 - 03/13/12 04:38 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
AmandaSnyder Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/17/11
Posts: 794
Loc: Wv,USA
What is wet intro does that mean u just throw the gliders together. If they did im sure it was for a very good reason as some rescues come to them very lonely and either self mutilate or over groom,im sure there was a reason.

I personally dont know these people but i ran a small rescue and you do what ever needs to be done for those babys and i put rescues together before without a long intro,i mean if its needed its needed.
_________________________
Amanda Lynn Snyder
Mommy & Slave To:
3 young human boys(Caleb,Cayden,Cameron)
4 :grey: Ma & Pa/ Adam & Eve

1 :rtmo: Oreo 1 :lue: Almond :wfb: Joy
1 German Shepard JaJa
Most of all Very Happy Hubby!
RIP Twix i miss u!!!

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#1238703 - 03/13/12 04:51 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11940
Loc: Wisconsin
Most of the rescues that I know around here, reptile, dog, cat....... all require that you have an interview in person.

The reptile rescue actually does home inspections and follow up visits.

That would most definitely mean no shipping.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Widget, Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1238782 - 03/13/12 07:31 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
GliderFun Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 320
Loc: NY
I see what some of you are saying, about "if they cared for their glider they would do additional research"

But if someone is told that shipping gliders is going to harm them and is told by someone they think they can trust to give them accurate information on glider care, they may not look elsewhere. That doesn't make them a bad owner in my eyes NECESSARILY.

They may want to do what's best for their glider, thought they dealt with a reputable source for information, and just surrender their glider to a rescue. They may think that's the only reasonable answer and since they asked a RESCUE they got the correct answer.

Or, if they adopted from the rescue and are told this. The rescue might wind up with the glider back if the family has to move.

And about asking vets. Not all vets are 100% knowledgable on everything either. Try asking a vet about proper diet for a glider or even a giant breed dog. lol I was told to feed my Newfoundland Puppies a high protein puppy chow by my vet LOL!!! That's a sure fire way to cause a whole slew of problems for my dogs.



Again, I agree with not shipping rescues due to the fact that you want to do a home check or meet the owners, etc. smile

Also, Shelly, I agree with you 100% as well. Nice thinking outside the box!

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#1238813 - 03/13/12 09:05 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
animalloversfb Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 212
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: GliderFun
I see what some of you are saying, about "if they cared for their glider they would do additional research"

But if someone is told that shipping gliders is going to harm them and is told by someone they think they can trust to give them accurate information on glider care, they may not look elsewhere. That doesn't make them a bad owner in my eyes NECESSARILY.

They may want to do what's best for their glider, thought they dealt with a reputable source for information, and just surrender their glider to a rescue. They may think that's the only reasonable answer and since they asked a RESCUE they got the correct answer.

Or, if they adopted from the rescue and are told this. The rescue might wind up with the glider back if the family has to move.

And about asking vets. Not all vets are 100% knowledgable on everything either. Try asking a vet about proper diet for a glider or even a giant breed dog. lol I was told to feed my Newfoundland Puppies a high protein puppy chow by my vet LOL!!! That's a sure fire way to cause a whole slew of problems for my dogs.



Have you called Ed/Gail from LGRS and asked them for advice on transport/shipping? If someone is going to take ONE LINE from a petfinder ad of animals for adoption as gospel, then they're obviously not doing much research and just looking for an excuse to dump their pets. I bet if they saw that and then talked to Ed/Gail, they would be given a thorough response on how to transport safely and how to ship as safely as possible if that is the only way to keep them with their current family.

I do not believe that a rescue would rather have a glider(s) surrendered to them if shipping is the only way for their family to keep them.
_________________________
Sara
http://sugarglidershowroom.weebly.com/

:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:

:rbridge:


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#1238822 - 03/13/12 09:19 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
I just wanted to put my two cents in about shipping...

I feel that the stress of shipping comes entirely from the handling of the crates on any given flight. I flew with two in the cabin with me in January (for medical reasons), one of which had only known me for a week or so, and both gliders handled the trip without a single problem. I was genuinely worried that the altitude or sound of the plane would upset them, but there was no indication of a problem. In fact, the older girl that I brought with me went through 5 different take-offs and landings, and didn't bat an eye, even when she was awake.

A week or two after I got home, I picked up a glider from the airport. He is 2 years old, and he had been neutered for 3 weeks. The breeder I got him from said that she'd never heard him utter a single crab until shortly before he came to me, nor did he bite. I believe her 100% too, because this boy acts like quite a gentleman. Since he got off the plane though, he has been very pouch protective and ornery. He's learning to trust me, and will happily ride in my shirt all day--another sign of his previous attitude--but I am certain that the handling of his crate on his way here from TN has left a mark on his personality, and I think it will take a while before he gets over the trauma of shipping and then moving on to a new environment.

I am not saying that shipping is wrong. I have done it before, in and out, and I may do it again. I will say, however, that if at all possible I would avoid it. I definitely don't think rescues that may already have psychological damage ought to be subjected to such a stressful ordeal unless there is a greater purpose to consider. I don't necessarily think that the phrase you quoted ought to be left without explanation or a little more detail, but I don't feel that it's an entirely untrue statement, either.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#1238823 - 03/13/12 09:23 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: animalloversfb]
shadow_ Offline
In Pouch

Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 29
Loc: missouri
Originally Posted By: animalloversfb
Originally Posted By: GliderFun
I see what some of you are saying, about "if they cared for their glider they would do additional research"

But if someone is told that shipping gliders is going to harm them and is told by someone they think they can trust to give them accurate information on glider care, they may not look elsewhere. That doesn't make them a bad owner in my eyes NECESSARILY.

They may want to do what's best for their glider, thought they dealt with a reputable source for information, and just surrender their glider to a rescue. They may think that's the only reasonable answer and since they asked a RESCUE they got the correct answer.

Or, if they adopted from the rescue and are told this. The rescue might wind up with the glider back if the family has to move.

And about asking vets. Not all vets are 100% knowledgable on everything either. Try asking a vet about proper diet for a glider or even a giant breed dog. lol I was told to feed my Newfoundland Puppies a high protein puppy chow by my vet LOL!!! That's a sure fire way to cause a whole slew of problems for my dogs.



Have you called Ed/Gail from LGRS and asked them for advice on transport/shipping? If someone is going to take ONE LINE from a petfinder ad of animals for adoption as gospel, then they're obviously not doing much research and just looking for an excuse to dump their pets. I bet if they saw that and then talked to Ed/Gail, they would be given a thorough response on how to transport safely and how to ship as safely as possible if that is the only way to keep them with their current family.

I do not believe that a rescue would rather have a glider(s) surrendered to them if shipping is the only way for their family to keep them.


yeah i agree. and calling them is always the best way to get in touch with them. taking care of like 100 gliders and a farm must take a lot of time to do. anytime i have messaged him or spoke to him on the forum he has never given me a short answer.
_________________________
2 sugar glider brothers named Rune and Vash
sugar glider and a Halloween addict :D

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#1238830 - 03/13/12 09:39 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
AmandaSnyder Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/17/11
Posts: 794
Loc: Wv,USA
I dont think in any way they are trying to encurage people to dump there gider. I just think they dont agree with shipping rescue which i dont agree with.

I bet if someone who rescued from them called and said were moving and must fly do u think it will be ok for them to fly,thye would probly say if u could drive it would be better but if u have to go ahead make sure to have them seen before and after the trip.Make sure they have apples maybe grapes.Im sure they wouldnt say no u cant do it your glider will die or suffer from the trip.

It seems to me there just trying to push away people who just want to get a glider shipped to them without having to meet them or anything.

Like ive said i personally think if a person was moving and wanted there pet to go with them they would take any messure to do so,i know i wouldnt look on one sit and say all well guess i got to leave my family member here because these people dont like to ship.

I think your taking this way to far these people arent trying to harm any animals in any way,why dont u just contact them and see if they will change there words a bit but your not going to get anywhere talking about them on the computer,just contact them.

Im not trying to be rude i just really think u should contact them and talk with them about how you feel about them wording it that way and how u think it may cause people to want to give there pets up.Good Luck
_________________________
Amanda Lynn Snyder
Mommy & Slave To:
3 young human boys(Caleb,Cayden,Cameron)
4 :grey: Ma & Pa/ Adam & Eve

1 :rtmo: Oreo 1 :lue: Almond :wfb: Joy
1 German Shepard JaJa
Most of all Very Happy Hubby!
RIP Twix i miss u!!!

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#1238869 - 03/13/12 11:47 PM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
GliderFun Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 320
Loc: NY
I got another email back from the gentleman who runs the rescue (don't know if I can put names) and he seemed to be all over the place in his response.

I don't know how the topic was brought up, but he expressed his concerns regarding mill breeders (not sure where that came from) and then basically stated that airlines were supporting mill breeders and mill breeders shipped via airlines so he doesn't support shipping gliders through airlines, only bringing them as carry on baggage.

I'm very confused by his response. I personally don't agree with him when he said that it is THEIR STANCE (LGRS) that anyone who advocates shipping sugar gliders isn't necessarily on the side of rescues and saving gliders lives. I support rescues and I am all for saving gliders in need. I am also 100% pro shipping. I don't see the correlation and I am quite taken back at that statement.


I don't feel I'm going to get anywhere as he
1- keeps going off topic and blaming airlines for enabling mill breeders
2- doesn't seem open to other points of view
3- LGRS already has an opinion about anyone who advocates shipping of sugar gliders, and it's not a good opinion as he already stated to me.
and he made it perfectly clear that regardless of my concerns I will not be impacting his "policy", though, that's not what I'm trying to do, I just think the wording in his ads are in extreme poor taste.

As an public face for sugar gliders, I think it's his responsibility to be on top of how he words things as even the slightest thing can impact the lives of gliders.


I agree with most of your points about people not caring enough to search elsewhere for more information, but, I also feel that if someone of "power" tells you something about how you should do things, and they are supposed to have more experience than you and are supposed to be like a mentor, you trust what they say.

I don't know what they would say if someone came to them and outright asked about shipping their gliders to their new homes. But since they don't believe in shipping, I don't think that conversation would be a positive one.

With great power comes great responsibility.

As far as calling them, I would prefer to keep everything in writing as it covers me as well as them. You can never be too careful!


Nothing in this post has been quoted from the original email, all is just paraphrased in my own words. If someone would like the text from the email, please PM me and I would be happy to send you the email I got back from LGRS.


Edited by GliderFun (03/13/12 11:49 PM)

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#1238874 - 03/14/12 12:23 AM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
shadow_ Offline
In Pouch

Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 29
Loc: missouri
just got done reading the email. and all i have to say is, you should be ashamed of yourself for how you twisted the words in the email and made it look on your post. what ed says in the email is completely different from what your saying and more logical sounding with good reasons. he was not all over the place the email flowed well to one point to the next.
i encourage everyone to request the email and not base your opinion on ed or what he thinks about shipping based on a paraphrased version of his email.
i wont go into what is in the email because paraphrasing it will do no good. you need to read the whole thing(just Ed's email)

again please ask to see the email he brings up many good points that will let you see why he does this.
_________________________
2 sugar glider brothers named Rune and Vash
sugar glider and a Halloween addict :D

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#1238875 - 03/14/12 12:29 AM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Ok, going to go out on a limb here. You are taking ONE line from ONE site and making a federal case out of it. Really. Let's look at other sites. PP tells how GREAT gliders are with all other pets and make great pets for small children. They claim that they don't need vets and are as easy to care for as hamsters. Now WE all know that is not true. But if you only go to one site, you have to deal with the information you find on that one site.

I can see where they may feel the airlines are supporting the mill breeders as the mill breeders ship HUNDREDS of gliders on a single flight to be sorted and distributed to their unsuspecting new owners from hotel rooms. And in that sense, I agree with Ed/Gail.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1238876 - 03/14/12 12:29 AM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
GliderFun Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 320
Loc: NY
wow, I am so sorry.

I stated here the way I read and took the email and I was confused by his email as well as appalled by what he stated.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but I think it's all over the place based on the fact that I emailed him only with concerns with the wording in his ad about shipping gliders and then it turned into what you saw in the email.

Please, anyone who wants to read the email, I have nothing to hide and I'm not ashamed with what I stated. If I misinterpreted what he said I'm sorry, but what I believe is true I stated.


"You are taking ONE line from ONE site and making a federal case out of it."
I'm not trying to make a federal case. I'm just making my point. I feel strongly about it and I don't think that a topic I feel strongly about is any less important than one someone else feels strongly about.

Also, (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is a non reputable source. I'm not sure what point you're making (confused, sorry frown ). I'm stating that a reputable source may be spreading misinformation that could potentially cause harm to gliders.

(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is a non reputable source that spreads lies and false information (seemingly purposely) to potential buyers and interested parties not caring what happens to the gliders.


I disagree that airlines are supporting mill breeders. Airlines do not discriminate who uses their services and I don't think any less of myself or anyone else who thinks shipping is an acceptable form of travel for sugar gliders or any other pets.


Edited by GliderFun (03/14/12 12:36 AM)

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#1238879 - 03/14/12 12:37 AM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
I have been to Ed and Gails for a couple of gatherings, spoken to them on the phone and helped with a few railroads. Call them to get your answers please. If you are wanting to know about the wet method bonding he or she does not mind answering that question and its only in extreme cases do they go to such an extreme measure from what I understand.
_________________________
USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm

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#1238881 - 03/14/12 12:52 AM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
Annie Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 02/25/12
Posts: 241
Loc: Missouri, USA
I think a false statement would be something to get mad at somebody about. Shipping can, in fact, cause them harm and I wouldn't call it a healthy thing to put them though. Most of them come out of the flight okay, but rescues are different. Also, we do a lot of things everyday that are not healthy for us, but they don't hurt us all. That doesn't make them healthy though. There's a statement on the rescue site that is a fact. It doesn't cause people to dump their gliders. That would be silly. smile


To be honest, if people didn't ship their pets because they read something about it not being healthy, no one would be eating at McDonalds. McDonalds isn't healthy, but we all eat it! Lesson: We, as humans, do what we want. If we dont want to give up our pets, we're not going to unless forced to.


This is all just my honest opinion and I'm not meaning to be mean to anyone. Just giving my own two cents. smile I also may make no sense... It's been a long day! lol
_________________________
Momma to Remi :wfb:

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#1238882 - 03/14/12 01:03 AM Re: Could LGRS be Contributing to 'dumped' gliders? [Re: GliderFun]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I brought up PP's site because there are THOUSANDS of people that believe the garbage they put on there and they believe them to be THE only reputable site to go to. I'm not saying they are right. I'm not saying they are reputable. I'm saying THOUSANDS of people THINK they are.

Honestly, your opinion is valid for you. It has caused us to think. But as has been said, your best bet would be to call Ed/Gail and discuss it with them. I've talked with Ed and he is a very reasonable person. As for his email being a bit all over the place...try taking care of the "farm" he has and see if your thoughts can stay completely focused all the time. I have just 3 horses, 5 adult dogs, 9 puppies, a cockatoo and 28 sugar gliders and I'm lucky if I remember to put the food in the dishes instead of the washing machine on some days.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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