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#123972 - 07/25/06 02:10 AM Longevity After Rejection?

Sophie was rejected at birth, from day one.. and one of the hardest battles I've ever fought in my life.. was the battle to save her life.. She was two this past April, and she will forever be one of my most proudest achievments..

We've been getting along splendidly these two long years. But Sophie has ALWAYS been tiny.. underweight.. fragile.. and lately she has me worried.. because I want to keep her for always, of course.. and I most definitely don't want to be caught off gaurd and lose her unexpectedly, it would probably kill me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" /> So here I am...

For those of you out there who've had to raise a joey yourself, with zero help from Mom.. for those of you with little ones, months, or.. years later.. who just need a little something extra.. what extra do you reccomend for long life, and real health.. and happiness..? And not just enough to get by?

Lately Sophie seems weaker than usual. And she was never OVERLY active before.. She hasn't changed much.. just seems.. more tired lately.. and other than getting her up early for extra love and attention and mealies.. what can I do for her.. to get some weight on her.. to give her a little more energy? Should I be worried? (like I said, she doesnt look sick, just.. tired). Of course, I FULLY admit to being a little over-anxious and paranoid about this particular glider because I'm so attatched to her. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> lol.

I'll be getting her companion neutered soon after the SGGA this year.. They arent having joeys.. I think maybe Sophie just doesn't want them.. and therefore, the mating is just unnecesary stress she doesn't need.. but that's only one step of many to ensure Sophie gets to steal as many more days of life as she can..

#123973 - 07/25/06 07:11 AM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

My rejected ones are only less than a year so I don't have much for longevity, but I can tell you that even after a male is neutered they sometimes still will try to mate.. the neutering only prevents children.

I would say that Sophie is lucky to have you and I'm sure she's going to have a life filled with love.

#123974 - 07/25/06 07:14 AM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
You could write a book on the various reasons joeys are rejected. sounds like in your little glider's case it was because of birth defects. The glider looks normal but has something wrong that keeps them from developing normally to full size. Sometimes these gliders will outgrow their early problems and lead a normal life. Others never seem to be able to overcome the early defects and live shortened lives. We have had them go both directions.

We had one little female who was rejected as a joey. We hand raised her. She was a petite glider and other than her size seemed very normal. But until she was about three months the other gliders wouldn't have anything to do with her. It was like her smell was repulsive. Finally she must have out grown her problem. Other gliders started to accept her even though she remained a small glider. She is now about four years old and leads a normal captive glider life. Of course at this time we cannot predict how long she will live but don't tell her. Right now she thinks it is forever.
Charlie H
Rescue & Rehabilation

#123975 - 07/27/06 06:29 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

Aww.. Tonia.. ThankYou for saying so.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cloud9.gif" alt="" /> I fought like mad to keep Soph alive.. it was the longest ten weeks of my life, not sleeping for fear I'd miss one of her feedings.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" /> But she was totally worth it.. she's spoiled beyond rotten now though because of it.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" /> lol.

Charlie.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> ThankYou.. I don't know why Mom rejected her (her twin sister), and twin brothers before her.. I just assumed mom was too old, too set in her ways.. too humanized after four years of just her.. and me.. inseperable.. but whatever the reason.. I couldn't accept letting her go..

But you've given me hope that tiiiny rejected princesses can live full lives. Over four years old is awesome.. for a glider who was thrown away and meant to die if nature had it's way.. So I won't worry EVERY single day that Sophie is going to leave me..

I must try to get it through my head that EVERY stollen day is precious and more than she could or would have had.. She's just precious to me.. so.. I tend to worry about her more than average, lol.. (in a crazy obsessive paranoid sort of way I suppose, lol).

So do teensy glider frames have the opportunity to add on some healthy weight? I worry so, about her size.. thinking she'd have more energy, if she were bigger.. Is there ANYthing I can do to get some weight on her? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohwell.gif" alt="" /> I'll be borrowing a friend's scale at the SGGA in a couple days, but even while I don't know her exact weight.. I know (about) what it will tell me.. she's <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> tiny..

#123976 - 07/27/06 08:28 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
I have 2 that are now 5 and 6 years old. They are doing great.
Love and kindness is a gift. Use it freely....
My Gallery

#123977 - 07/27/06 09:07 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

Ohhh. That's AWEsome. ThankYou for posting a little more hope for me to hold on to, Ellen. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

#123978 - 07/27/06 11:45 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

If anyone experienced in rejected tiny ones, or unwell gliders will be attending the SGGA this year, and wouldn't mind taking a look a Sophie for a moment.. please let me know.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> ThanksMuch. Ame.

#123979 - 07/28/06 03:35 AM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

I was reading a post earlier, on how to tell 'the look' of a sick glider. WHAT a helpful post that was.. When of If someone peeks in on this thread, I took this of Sophie a couple minutes ago while I was clipping her nails.. she's comfy and lying down, lol.. but if someone takes a look at it, does she look sick to you? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

606557-SophieJuly06.jpg (51 downloads)

#123980 - 07/28/06 05:47 AM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

Hi Amy, I have 3 hand reared gliders now, 1 is 3 years, she started off life in a bad way. Her mum was a rescue who had been fed seeds and that's it! So Dinx was incredibly small, we took her to an experienced friend who commented on her size and her colour (she was orange!!), he took a fecal sample and said her kidney's were failing, he gave us some meds and she pulled through! It was a tough battle, and I was convinced I'd lose her, but 3 years later she's a beautiful, sweet, big girl. She's only just turning grey, well, she's in the final stages of turning grey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My latest two are only babies, we found them at the beginning of May so they're just 3 months OOP. One (Molly) is a normalish size, she's a little smaller than our usual 3 month joeys, but Lily is tiny, she's barely grown at all in the last 2 months! She's a real tiddler, but she seems healthy enough, she's always first to the food bowl and first out of the cage as soon as the door is opened, she was also the first out of the two to discover she could climb the wall <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> But I have to admit I'm a little worried about her anyway.

I found one of the best things is Wombaroo High Protein Supplement - certainly since I've been using it Dinx's fur has improved dramatically. She's filled out a lot too - but that could be because of her age, I'm not sure! But definately give the WHPS a try! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Edit: I should also say that Dinx has never had an illness in her life - other than the kidney problem when she was a baby. So it is possible for hand reared gliders to live a healthy, illness free life.

Edited by moorie999 (07/28/06 05:49 AM)

#123981 - 07/28/06 10:49 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ozzi]

It is hard to tell from that picture since alot of her is covered. But to me no she does not look sick from that picture. She is a cutie pie! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/muchlove.gif" alt="" />

#123982 - 07/30/06 04:48 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: RSXTC]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Just look into her eyes...I see a litle angel full of love and life! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" /> I'm a fairly new suggie mom, but from what I've read giving her ensure will help with the weight gain. However, sometimes if a glider has a small bone structure/frame they might not be able to handle anymore weight than what they have gained after thier first year. So if she still feels or looks the same in weight after all this time most likely she will stay this tiny. Just my opinion..but boy is she a beautiful little angel! and she knows it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

#123983 - 07/30/06 04:59 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I have no experience with rejected joeys (only one experience with a joey), but she looks happy and healthy to me. Her tail is bushy, her eyes are bright. She is a little doll. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

#123984 - 07/31/06 12:12 AM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

ThankYou guys.. so so much, for complimenting little miss Sophie. She IS a doll, and everyone this weekend at the SGGA said she looked beautiful and healthy too. That her eyes were bright and her ears were perky, and her coat was silky soft, and she was tiny, but looked great.. Healthy..

And then Megi and I weighed her.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohwell.gif" alt="" /> with Karin and John and Kristin and Dave and Eddie looking on waiting expectantly to hear what her weight was..

2 year and 3 month old Sophie.. weighs FIFTY EIGHT grams.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

We all took a collective sigh.. no one was pleased with the news.. but it definitely spoke volumes. We all agreed it wasn't good. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I want to try Darcy's for her I think. If anyone has any opinions or comments.. I'd love to hear them.. I'll be looking up where I can get calcium carbonate and acacia gum now..

I'm still worried about her. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/needhug.gif" alt="" />

Anyone have anything encouraging to say? lol.
Any Pro Darcy's folks out there to add some support?

-sigh- 58 grams. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />

#123985 - 07/31/06 12:16 AM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

I should also add that it's not her diet, it's her.

I have an eight year old female, 120 grams.
An eight year old Male, 116 grams.
A four year old male, 90 grams.
and a one year old Male, 110 grams.

And Sophie the lightweight of the Bunch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
(just thought I should add that in, lol).

#123986 - 07/31/06 01:55 AM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

I can't find acacia gum to buy, OR calcium carbonate.. you guys holding out on me? lol. Anyone (pretty please) know where I might be able to find some?

#123987 - 07/31/06 02:48 AM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]
SugarBaby22 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 5697
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Ames.. my dear. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> So sorry to hear that you're worrying about Miss Sophie. She's beautiful and healthy looking to me.. just very small, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> She can be small as long as she is healthy and thriving!

I just saw a photo of she and Mr. Cypress in the SGGA gallery ~ she looks GREAT to me.. and him too! Kiss them for me.. can't wait to see them all next year.

Goodness.. for the life of me I cannot remember where I saw Acacia Gum.. and I'm determined to find it! Anything for you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I do know that Miss Tonia over at Gliders Anonymous sells calcium carbonate powder.. and you can find it HERE: Gliders Anonymous Store

I'll be back.. once I find that Acacia Gum! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohwell.gif" alt="" />

#123988 - 07/31/06 02:54 AM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]
SugarBaby22 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 5697
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> Here ya go: *Supplements* <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

#123989 - 07/31/06 02:37 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

Wheeeee Linda I Love You! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

ThankYou very much for finding them for me.. I swear, I looked and looked.. lol.. and was like.. Gah, they gotta sell it SOMEwhere.. hehe. lol.

I soo wish you could have been there this weekend, they would have loved to have met you.. (well, Sophie.. Cy would have loved to see you AGAIN, lol). I had so many compliments on him.. I'm sure we BOTH would have been proud of him if you had been there. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

ThankYou also for the comforting words on Miss Sophie. You KNOW I'm still gonna worry about her, lol.. she's ust ssoooo small. But if she can be small and still be okay.. that is definitely good to hear.

I'd still love any and all experienced help advice with her though..

Linda, THANKS AGAIN for the links, I owe ya one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> LuvAme..

#123990 - 07/31/06 03:29 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

Hi Ames!
Sorry to hear Miss Sophie's giving you concern <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />!

I think you know that I feed all my gliders Darcy's. They're all doing fabulous on it! Everyone is very good weights and all their joeys have all been nice and big and very healthy.
I think it's definitely worth a try for Miss Sophie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />! Hopefully it will help her put on some weight... but at the very least, it won't hurt to try it!

Anyway, I get my acacia gum from I've also been adding bee pollen too... that I also get at ExoticNutrition.
For calcium, I use JurassiCal that I get at PetSmart. I think Petco sells it too.

Let me know if you need any help with the diet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

#123991 - 07/31/06 05:14 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

Aww that's good to here Steph, thankyou.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> You're right, I think I DID know that.. which puts to rest my fears that my other good weight gliders will balloon up and get TOO big.. because I don't want that either.. I want them to all be perfect.. that's not unreasonable... is it? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> lol.

I feel so weird and new to this.. As long as I've had gliders I never really looked in to darcy's and don't know much at all about it.. so I'm floundering.. it's like.. Ack, what do I do?!?! lol. But yes.. If there's ANYthing I can do.. to 'ensure' (ha ha, lol) that Sophie stays here with me as long as she POSSIBLY can, then I'm going to try it.

If I can't find an answer to any specific questions I come across, I will definitely ask you about it. I was going to start asap, but I think I will spend a few days reading everything I can on it, and then get the stuff and go with it. So I know what I'm doing, lol.

#123992 - 08/01/06 10:40 AM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
Amy, a petite glider like that has a hard time keeping weight on. You know these people in highschool that ate and ate and ate and still weighed 90 pounds. Well she is one of those. My albino Princess got down to 58 grams after nursing the last two. I am happy if her weight is 70 grams. One thing that I have done is given her the highprotein supplement plus yogurt every night. She is 4.5 and in Jan after the last two babies she had that were weaned, she could not keep the weight on. I started her with the High Protein Supplement and she stays at 70 grams without me having to worry. She does not look like 70 grams because she is frail and tiny, but she is cause I weigh her a lot. Anyway the High Protein Supplement has done the trick. I just got a call this morning from Geoff and my shipment is being shipped today if you want to give it a try. The way I saw it, her protein intake had decreased because she doesn't eat enough of the BML. I had to supplement with another source of protein.
I have a female Hope that will be 5 years old on 9/11 this year. She was born on the day of the bombing. I will have her a party this year. She was rejected on Day one. I found out later her mom had a yeast in her pouch and was rejecting all joeys. I took this picture of her recently. Unfortunately for me, she is alpha. She doesn't crab, just possessive over everything in her cage. I don't have her on the High Protein, but she is still healthy.She is a cinnamon - the prettiest glider I have ever seen. I never got a cinnamon from her, because I always had her with Sammie when she was in her breeding years. Hope
ToandFro Gliders

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!


#123993 - 08/01/06 01:06 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]
SugarBaby22 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 5697
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Hope is BEAUTIFUL Sheila!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

#123994 - 08/01/06 03:23 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

Hhmm. I wonder if Darcy;s diet then.. or the High Protein Supplement would be better to try...?

Sheila, thank you for posting.. It's good to know that I'm not the only one experiencing the joys, and the worries of a tiny glider. If I might ask.. what IS the high protein supplement you feed your little one?

Looks like my decision got harder to make, with another option, lol.. but right now, I could use all the options available..

#123995 - 08/01/06 03:53 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]There are three females that I hand-raised and all are relatively healthy... Mareki was hand-raised from one week oop. She came oop on 2/14/03 and is actually overweight at 154 grams. Sugar was hand-raised from one week oop after she was attacked by her mother & lost part of her lower lip (her twin sister was cannibalized). She came oop on 3/25/04 and is now a healthy 128 grams. Allira was hand-raised from day one oop. She came oop on 7/15/04 and is now a healthy 122 grams. I know that doesn't help with the issue you're dealing with - but it does show that rejected joeys can live healthy lives in spite of being hand-raised. I agree with Tom that it is possible that the reason Sophie was rejected to begin with was due to some defect that is not obvious to us humans. Gliders seem to have an amazing instinct for flaws that us humans can't detect...
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah

Suz' Sugar Gliders

#123996 - 08/01/06 05:06 PM Re: Longevity After Rejection? [Re: ]

Right. That's quite possible. I may NEVER know about it though. Because Sophie's mother, (Aspen, my first glider, now eight years old), rejected Sophie, her twin sister Sadie, AND her twin boys before that, Darcy and Dixon.. I naturally first assumed.. that it wasn't the babies or that there was anything wrong with them.. but that she just didn't want them or know what to do with them.. So if there WAS something wrong with Sophie, it would have had to have been the same with all three of her other joeys. I dont know if it's possible for all four joeys to have the same common flaw, but if so, it's too late now, lol.. Cause I managed to keep her here anyway.. now she's stuck with me, lol.

It's good that it's possible to be a normal healthy weight if they've been rejected. Is it just as possible for the to be small sometimes no matter WHAT you try as well?

I believe you meant that you agree with Charlie though, not Tom.. but I know what you meant.


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