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#1280919 - 08/08/12 01:52 PM Possible broken leg...need advice quickly
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
One of my 6 week old joeys had a swollen toe on saturday and I took her to an emergency vet that had no experience with gliders. The vet thought maybe a hair had gotten wrapped around her toe from being in my hair...she loves to snuggle up in my long hair. I always check her toes after she is in my hair but thought maybe i had missed something. Well the toe is looking better but now her leg right above the paw is swollen and feels broken. I have a vet appointment for 3pm today with my regular vet but I want information from someone who may have dealt with broken legs before. What do they usually do for a broken leg? She seems to still be using the leg but favoring it a bit. I have no idea what could have happened to her. Could getting a claw stuck in the fleece and twisting to get away break a leg? Could she have had the broken leg since saturday and the other vet and i just didn't realize it until it swelled up? I more tend to think she did this after but i don't know.
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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#1280922 - 08/08/12 02:00 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
There are basically three ways to deal with a broken leg.


One is to amputate. (last resort)

Two is depending on where the break is, pinning the bone is an option.

Third is to put her in a hospital cage where she has limited movement and let it heal on it's own. Up-ing her calcium will help it heal.

It will depend on where the break is and how badly it is broken. Xray is needed to determine that though.

My Spryte had her back "thigh" bone broken and it was pinned.

I think Val has more info on The Sweet Spot about broken bones. I'd go read there too or contact Val.
_________________________
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Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1280927 - 08/08/12 02:09 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
Thanks Dancing. I am just worried sick about my little one. It's driving me absolutely crazy trying to figure out what happened to her. She has been with me most of the time since she hurt her toe and in a hospital cage when not with me. The only thing I can pinpoint was a few times she has caught her sore toe on the fleece and i had to unhook her. I guess it could have happened at the same time as the toe when in the cage with mom and dad. I'm frustrated that the vet couldn't see us until 3 today.
Should i be requesting pain meds for her when she is so young?
I can't believe something bad happened to my baby. I am so overprotective with them. I just feel like a horrible mom that I let this happen and worst that I have no idea what happened frown
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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#1280937 - 08/08/12 02:53 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
IslandGliders Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/29/10
Posts: 4182
Loc: Maine
You are not a horrible mum hug2 This stuff can happen to anyone.

Are you positive it's broken? Don't wrack your brain trying to figure out how it broke if you don't know if it's broken yet. It could just be a sprain.

Please keep us posted! I hope your little one has a speedy recovery!

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#1280942 - 08/08/12 03:29 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
You are not a horrible mum. Accidents happen. In one way or another, they happen to all of us. I don't know of any person that has had gliders that have not had an accident or illness (that have had their gliders more than "just a minute").

Like with human children. We can do our best to provide the best environment we can but they still get their bumps and bruises.

Pain meds are based on weight. If you can, I would see about getting some. It is better to have it on hand and not use it than need it and not have it.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1280974 - 08/08/12 06:58 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
Well poor baby Roo does have a broken leg...it is broken right above her left paw. The vet is pretty sure she is also going to loose her middle toe that looked like it had a string or hair wrapped around it. I came home and went through the bonding pouches and the pouches in all my cages trying to find a loose thread that could have hurt her or could be harmful to any of the others. I didn't find anything but the vet thinks it is likely she got tangled in a thread on her toe and twisted her leg until it broke trying to get free. He gave us batryl for likely infection to start in the toe but he didn't want to do pain meds unless absolutely needed because he said at this small size the pain meds could do way more harm than good. She seems to be using the leg some and not acting like it hurts too much frown The vet says her toe should turn black in the next few days and hopefully fall off on it's own but if it doesn't fall off or gets infected he'll amputate it. I just can't help crying over my tiny baby suffering so much because i didn't keep her safe enough. She now needs to stay in a hospital cage and not be with mommy and daddy. He says I can let her nurse under supervision but not to leave them alone together at all. Mom or dad may try to chew her injured foot off or kill her because she is injured.
PLEASE everyone check and double check bonding pouches and sleeping pouches for threads and check those tiny paws anytime they have been near your hair. I always thought i was doing a good job of this but good isn't good enough...you have to be super vigilant.
Now i've promised Roo I will cater to her and do everything she wants or needs while she gets better.
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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#1280979 - 08/08/12 07:07 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
IslandGliders Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/29/10
Posts: 4182
Loc: Maine
Gentle hug2 to Roo, and to you, too, Connie. Please don't beat yourself up. These little critters sometimes find ways to injure themselves no matter how diligent we are.

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#1280984 - 08/08/12 07:25 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
Thanks so much for the support Hannah. I know lil Roo will be ok. I'm glad Harold was so suppportive about me rushing her back into the vet. I felt so much better after Having Dr. Tebay see her and tell me what to do.
Now I'm wondering if it will be ok to sell her or if I should be keeping her. I so much do not need another glider but I will worry terribly about someone else being able to take care of her if she has an injury.
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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#1280985 - 08/08/12 07:30 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
Lunalove Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 366
Loc: NY, USA
awww Connie im sooo sorry to hear about little Roo!! You are an awesome momma for getting her to the vet and doing all you can for her!! Things happen and no matter how protective we are we cant protect them from everything!! I have had to learn this with my skin kids with broken legs and elbows!! I too beat myself up, i think its just a motherly thing we do but hugs to you and Roo and she will be better before you know it!! hug2 mlove
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Tricia, fuzzbutt slave and lovin it!

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#1280999 - 08/08/12 08:37 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Is it normal for them to allow the toe to turn black and fall off?
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Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


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#1281001 - 08/08/12 08:43 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: GliderNursery]
animalloversfb Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 212
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
Is it normal for them to allow the toe to turn black and fall off?


That is what I was wondering...I think that sounds incredibly painful and is just asking for infection to set in. At least with tails and penis', you amputate above the injury to ensure only healthy tissue is left and minimize risk of infection...if its left, often times the necrosis continues to spread.
_________________________
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http://sugarglidershowroom.weebly.com/

:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:

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#1281003 - 08/08/12 08:48 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
No it is not, Shelly. In gliders, it is always best to do a clean amputation. Perhaps they are deferring because of her young age.

Broken bone after care instructions:
http://thesweetspot.forumotion.net/t6-broken-leg-after-care-and-rehabilitation-instructions

Also everyone remember that they are never too young to start clipping those nails if they are getting caught.

Connie, your baby will be just fine if you follow the instructions above and your vet's treatment plan. I have treated many, many broken bones and all of them healed without further complications. smile
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#1281005 - 08/08/12 09:03 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
I didn't think so Val, thanks for clarifying that.
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Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


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#1281010 - 08/08/12 09:12 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
Val should i be concerned that my vet wants to let the toe fall off? He said his major reason for doing it that way was because at not quite 6 weeks old he thinks the anesthisia could be deadly. he said he had to put a momma glider under once to remove a toothpick through her leg and she had 2 joeys about a week from coming oop and when he put her under it killed both the joeys. I was ok with waiting right now because as far as I can tell her toe is looking better not worse. It still has a healthy pink tone to it so I didn't want him to jump the gun and remove her toe if there is a chance it may heal.
Clipping nails is another thing i questioned the vet about....her nails on that paw are getting stuck on everything. I asked if it was ok to clip them with her toe injury and broken leg and he told me not to do it for at least two more weeks because it could cause more damage to the broken leg. I understand his point but I am very worried that she may do more harm to herself by that foot getting stuck on the fleece. Any advice????
Also I read the thread on the sweet spot and was very thankful for it. It mentioned somewhere on there giving liquid calcium to help heal the break. My vet said no way to this because he says giving too much calcium can have worse effects than not enough. However he looked up the original HPW diet that I am using and he doesn't think it is a high enough calcium content. He has me scared to be adding calcium so what should I do? I wouldn't think Roo would have a calcium deficiency since all she has eaten so far is momma's milk. Now I am going to have to suppliment Roo because she can't stay with mom and dad. I'll still let her nurse a few times a day as long as Lulu will allow it. Will she get enough calcium with brisky's booster milk?
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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#1281037 - 08/08/12 11:44 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
I asked if it was ok to clip them with her toe injury and broken leg and he told me not to do it for at least two more weeks because it could cause more damage to the broken leg. I understand his point but I am very worried that she may do more harm to herself by that foot getting stuck on the fleece. Any advice????


If you can clip her nails while she is sleeping so that you don't have to in any way pull on or twist her leg, I would clip the nails. If not, you risk her snagging and doing more damage.

Also, I would go with a different fabric instead of fleece for now. 200 thread count (or higher) sheets BUT you must turn and sew the edges so there is no unraveling. Or denim (same with the edges). While not as soft and fluffy, it also does not snag like fleece. Set her up a bed with very small peices of fleece (like 1/2 inch squares) if you want the "coosh" effect. But that way, if she snags, she will just drag around the little bit of fleece instead of it dragging her.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1281040 - 08/09/12 12:00 AM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
Thanks again Dancing. I will sew up some new pouches for her tomorrow. I already decided to try clipping her claws on that paw and got 3 claws clipped before she woke up. We'll have to finish another time. The 3 claws I got I managed to clip barely even touching her foot so I know I didn't do any harm. I stopped as soon as she woke up and pulled her foot back.
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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#1281049 - 08/09/12 03:26 AM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Good job Connie!
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1281207 - 08/09/12 07:45 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
Roo's leg is looking awful today. It's very bruised and lumpy. I am hoping and praying she doesn't end up loosing her whole leg frown For a good note her toe is actually looking a lot better. It's still swollen but not as much as it was and the toe is looking pink like the other toes and not purple like it had been. I would not think the toe would look a healthy pink if it was going to fall off. Getting Roo to take the baytril twice a day is proving to be a true challenge. She absolutelty hates it.
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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#1281228 - 08/09/12 09:23 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Connie, are you following both the instructions of your vet AND the information Val gave you above? What was the reasoning for your vet not to do a clean amputation?
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1281241 - 08/09/12 11:39 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
Aimee I am following as close as I can to the advice from the vet and Val. The vet did advise me not to clip the nails on her broken leg paw but I ended up clipping a few of the nails while she slept being very careful not to move the paw or leg. Once she woke up I left the other few nails for another time. I went against the vet's advice on that because she was getting her nails stuck and that seemed to be causing more tugging on her leg than me clipping them.
His reason for not wanting to amputate was because he thought the anesthisia might be harmful to such a young glider. So far I am not at all sure the toe will fall off or need to be amputated because it's looking pretty good today. I'm keeping Roo in a hospital cage so she has nothing to climb on or fall from. Val's info said it would take 5-8 weeks for the leg to heel( I think that was the amoutn of time...not possitive) My vet said he thought in a joey this young it would heel in about 2 weeks. He wants to see her back no matter what in 2 weeks or sooner if the toe is having any problems. Honestly I had a bit of concern over him thinking the toe should just fall off, but so far he has been an excellent vet with any issues the gliders have had. He is not a glider specialist or anything but his vet SCHOOL ROOMATE and good friend is an exotic pet specialist and treats gliders regularly so he called him about Roo's leg and toe for advice. My other concern was he chose not to give any pain meds because he thinks there is too much of a risk of harming other organs like the liver and kidneys if the dose is at all too much. He tried to calculate a pain med dose for her and it was so miniscule he had no idea how we would even deliver it or get it down to a small enough dose.
Has anyone tried the pain patches for gliders? Dr Tebay said he recieved an email a few weeks ago about a new patch for gliders...you shave their head and apply the patch the the back of their head and it delivers a very small dose of pain meds over an extended period of time. He said he had never heard of these being used on gliders but that he has used something like them on cats.
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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#1281253 - 08/10/12 06:23 AM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
kybluesky Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 94
Loc: Kentucky
Poor baby Roo!! To help with taking the baytril my vet mixed it with grenadine. It worked great!!

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#1281262 - 08/10/12 08:28 AM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
I'm curious as to why he's got her on Baytril? Maybe I missed it somewhere in the thread.

Have your vet contact Dr. Walsh - this is why we have the consult vet list. He will be able to talk with your vet and help with correct dosage on pain meds, if she's able to have it.
_________________________
Aimee & The Monkeys

www.gliderchef.com

www.thejumpinmonkey.com

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#1281287 - 08/10/12 10:58 AM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12070
Loc: Wisconsin
Amy,

It sounds as if she is on the antibiotic because they thought the toe was going die and become necrotic, then fall off.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1281288 - 08/10/12 11:02 AM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
I can't see a pain patch working on a glider. I would think they would work hard at getting it off, thereby it not being on long enough to administer the proper dosage of pain med into their system. dunno Just my opinion.
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1281297 - 08/10/12 11:43 AM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
Feather is right about the baytril it was because he thinks the toe is going to fall off. I really don't think it is..it is looking so much better.
Shelly that is the same thing Dr. Tebay said about the patch. How in the world would you keep it on.
I will give Dr. Tebay Dr. Walsh's number. Is it listed in the vet list? What state is he in? I also worry about insulting Dr. Tebay. He is seriouslhy the best vet around here and i don't want to make him feel like i don't trust him by asking him to consult with another vet.
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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#1281298 - 08/10/12 11:48 AM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Vet Consult List

FYI - This list is available under the vet listing on Sugar Glider Help.
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1281299 - 08/10/12 11:51 AM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3089
Loc: Central Connecticut
It is hard enough to keep a pain patch on a dog or cat I would never use one on a glider.
IF they got it off or got it open by scratching with their feet trying to get it off they would overdose in the medication just by cleaning their foot.

Also I could be wrong but using Baytril in an animal so young could cause future problems. Please double check with your vet.

Get well soon little one.


Edited by BCChins (08/10/12 12:15 PM)
_________________________
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Brenda &
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#1281307 - 08/10/12 12:55 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
lilangels Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 3745
Loc: Butte, Mt. USA
I can't believe how hard it is to have a sick baby. Everyone has such different opinions on what is right and what is wrong. How in the world am I supposed to know what to do for my poor baby Roo?
Has anyone had a 6 week old or younger joey who has been on pain meds? Or one that young who has had surgery and been under anesthisia? I would really like to talk with someone who has experienced anything like this in a very young joey. We don't have many options for vets in montana. I have been to 4 already and my current vet is by far the most knowledgable with the gliders. I am just worried sick about Roo and so confused on what to do for her. Now I am worrying about the bartyil, the leg and the toe, whether or not she needs or can even have pain meds, and whether or not the hpw original diet is giving all my gliders enough calcium. HELP :tant2:
_________________________
Connie: soon to be wife to Harold, mom to 3 children, 2 precious kitties, and my treasured gliders.

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#1281311 - 08/10/12 01:19 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3089
Loc: Central Connecticut
It is very hard and stressful and I am sorry for you and your baby.

Google Enroflaxin and read up on it.

Have you spoken to Val on the phone. She has had this come though her rescue I am sure is is probably your best source of information on this other then a vet to vet conference.
_________________________
Have a Good Day
Brenda &
Mr. Magoo

Friendly Reminder please have an e-collar ready before you need it......

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#1281314 - 08/10/12 01:36 PM Re: Possible broken leg...need advice quickly [Re: lilangels]
kybluesky Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 94
Loc: Kentucky
If you trust your vet listen to him and not the varying opinions. I have read so many post with posters saying we are not vets and the same posters are very quick to point out they believe the vets opinion is wrong. Just as everybody here has an opinion different vets will have differing opinions also. It doesn't mean either vet is wrong.

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