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#1282 - 01/08/03 02:41 PM SEIZURES!!! Help Please!
Anonymous
Unregistered


I posted about this in Behavior and anatomy, but since this has become more of a health issue I wanted to post here.

Kylie was shaking pretty badly last night when I got her out to play. She was more clumsy than usual and kept falling off of slick surfaces, which is normal, but not to such an extent. She did not eat any of her BML, fruits or veggies last night, but ate about 10 mealworms (I'm not sure of the exact number because she got to them before I counted) in the evening. This may be why she didn't eat last night, because I gave her the mealies much later than usual.

Today I gave her the liquid calcium the vet prescribed last week, but had to restrain her to do so. Afterwards, she was shaking really violently. She went into my shirt and kept shaking, then her head started moving (turning) left, right, left, right, etc. about 10 times. I decided not to wait around for replies and called the vet that is just down the road. They have some experience with sugar gliders since at least 2 of the employees there have them. It was 1:05 and they were able to get me in at 1:15. Kylie was still shaking when I got there. She has gone from 65 grams (Dr. Fronefield's visit) to 59 grams today. The vet tech held her (I was amazed that Kylie let her...she usually doesn't like other people during the day) and she was still shaking. She sat on the doc's shoulder a minute and was still shaking. The vet said that physically she looked fine, other than the tremors. She does not think they are seizures since they are constant. She said it may be a protein deficiency just now showing up from when Kylie wouldn't eat anything with protein in it a couple months ago (before I started feeding mealies). I am to give her lots of mealies, and I am going to try a pinky tonight.

I called Dr. Fronefield's office (where I took her last week when she was acting funny) to let him know and see what he thought about it. He was not there but the other doctor thinks she may be hypoglycemic. This never came up at the vet today so I called to ask her about it. She is supposed to call me back later.

The doctor said if it is not a protein deficiency it could be a neurological or nervous system problem. She hopes it is the protein. If things do not get better I will be taking Kylie up to College Station to have blood work done.

Please keep us in your thoughts.

P.S. The vet also said I should get her a playmate...I told her I'm trying.

<small>[ 01-08-2003, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: aggiesgirlamie ]</small>

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#1283 - 01/08/03 02:50 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Please know you will be in our prayers. The unknown with gliders can drive us and the vets crazy.
We just need to know so much more about them.

Please keep us posted.
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#1284 - 01/08/03 02:54 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


vet just called back. Doesn't think she is hypoglycemic...something about her eating habits...said if she was hypoglycemic her eating would go up and down....like she would eat somtimes and not eat others...but since she ate the meal worms last night...she doesn't think this is the case.

I'm gonna go to gliderhealth.com and try to talk to some folks there.

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#1285 - 01/08/03 03:33 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Keeping Kylie in my thoughts... I hope everything will be okay. You're doing everything you can... keep us updated.

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#1286 - 01/08/03 03:51 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you Ellen and Toni.
Ellen...PM sent.

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#1287 - 01/08/03 04:04 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Amie - I'm so sorry you and Kylie are going through this! Know that I'll be thinking of you and praying for only good things for both of you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

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#1288 - 01/08/03 04:14 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Charlee...I am so happy to be a part of a group like this...I don't know what I would do if I didn't have people like you to help me through times like these.

Just wanted to let you guys know that Kylie is sleeping...and she doesn't shake while she is asleep. So I'm happy for that.

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#1289 - 01/08/03 04:53 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think Kylie is having seizures...she is shaking really violently and then she will stop for a short time...then start shaking violently again. She shakes longer than she stops though.

I just don't know what to do!!! I hate watching her go through this...I feel totally helpless. <img border="0" alt="help" title="" src="graemlins/help.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="cry" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />

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#1290 - 01/08/03 05:27 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Amie...I don't have any experience at all with what you're going through but I wanted you to know that I am praying for you and Kylie. That helpless feeling is so awful. You two are in my thoughts. I hope you find out what's wrong with her soon.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Steph

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#1291 - 01/08/03 05:44 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: Izzyandrileysmom]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just got back from the vet again. They said they couldn't do anything for her. Referred me to Dr. Antinoff near the Galleria. Have to wait till 10 tomorrow AM. Is there anything I can do to make her more comfortable tonight?

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#1292 - 01/08/03 06:03 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Amie,

I really hope the vet finds out what is wrong with your gliders.
Both of you will be in my thoughts <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" />

Question, when she is shaking do her eyes roll back?

Thank you

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#1293 - 01/08/03 06:08 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Candice...I am pretty sure her eyes are NOT rolling back when she shakes. Thanks to you and Steph for keeping us in your thoughts.

P.S. She is sleeping peacefully in her travel pouch right now. I want her in my bra but don't want to disturb her since she has not slept much today.

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#1294 - 01/08/03 07:05 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Amie - PM sent!

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#1295 - 01/08/03 07:48 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Kylie's awake again. Ears are down and eyes are only a little more than half way open... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Still shaking.

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#1296 - 01/08/03 08:05 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Aime,

Do you feed BML? Has your glider always been on this diet?
There is enough protein in there for her...mealworms do not provide a lot of protein.

Could it be possible that she has gotten a hold of something that has poisoned her?
I know that Johns glider was having seizures not too long ago and was misdiagnosed with having a calcium deficiency but really it way his daughters nail polish remover that had poisoned him.

If this keeps going on I think you need to go to an emergency vet.

Thank you

<small>[ 01-08-2003, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Candiflip ]</small>

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#1297 - 01/08/03 08:57 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Sent an email out to the mods. thavens@harborpro.com
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#1299 - 01/08/03 09:01 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Please warm the baby up. He more than likly is dehydrated and needs sub q fluids. Dw5 is suggested as it has dextrose to help with be hypoglacemia. Warm him with warm blankies from the mircrowave set at about a min or so each time. Not hot but toasty. Take a 1 ml syringe and try to get juice down him. But this glider has more going on than being hypoglacemic.

Take to an emer. vet ASAP If unable to locate one....then start calling all the numbers in the phone book of vets with home numbers. Often if you have a name they will be listed in the white pages. Be persistant and focused. You can locate a vet. If he needs help I am confidant that we here can link him with a knowledgable vet for helping with DXing and dosages of meds.

<small>[ 01-08-2003, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Judie ]</small>
_________________________
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#1300 - 01/08/03 09:47 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Amie,

Kylie’s symptoms sound alarmingly familiar…

I echo most of the advice you’ve been given--you need to keep Kylie hydrated. In addition to regular Sub-Q fluids, I also recommend mixing red tea and fructose together. Red tea is an excellent antioxidant that helps rid the body of toxins. The best way to rid the body of toxins is NOT antibiotics but to flush it out of the system.

My gliders were eventually prescribed Clavimox but it might not be the best antibiotic to use because, though it may kill Kylie’s toxins, it also releases more toxins into the bloodstream. These toxins could prove lethal.

I know you already have an appointment with Dr. Antinoff tomorrow, but I would seriously advise you find another vet. I don't want to disrespect anyone, but when my gliders first got sick I took them to Dr. Antinoff and Dr. Chen at Gulf Coast. Six hundred dollars later, the vet had misdiagnosed my babies as calcium deficient.

Amie, I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep Kylie hydrated. By the time I found an adequate treatment for my gliders they had been misdiagnosed for about two weeks. The toxins had taken over some of my babies so severelythat nothing could save them.

If I had to do it over again I would have forgone the antibiotics and concentrated on flushing out the toxins.

Good luck and please keep us updated.

-Ryan

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#1301 - 01/08/03 10:18 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am so sorry that I couldn't have been more help in your other post. Please know my prayers are with you both.

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#1302 - 01/09/03 09:59 AM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Amie,

I am sooo very sorry for what you are going through <img border="0" alt="worried" title="" src="graemlins/worried2.gif" /> . I know that you and Kylie are great together. Please, don't beat yourself up and lost it. I know that you are doing everything you can. I am praying for you and Kylie. I just read and it just hurts that I can't help any more then these guys have. They have given lots of good advice and I hope that some is possible. I just wish that there were other ways that I could help. Are you going to be able to make it to Houston tomorrow??? PLEASE keep us posted and let us know how she is doing. We are all praying for you and wishing you two the very very best. If there is nothing else you can do, it's going to be hard, but lay down with her, even put her in your bra (even if you have to disturb her) and REST!! If not take a nap, lay down with a blanket and watch TV with her. If there is nothing else that you can do, then take my advice, it may help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

PRAYING FOR YOU GUYS,

Tammy

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#1303 - 01/09/03 11:11 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hope you find out what is wrong with kylie. Prayers sent out to you two!! <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" />

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#1304 - 01/09/03 03:59 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Went to the vet...still can't figure out what's wrong. I have spent over $350 this week in vet bills and don't know what's wrong. Today the vet took some blood and is having it sent out for a profile. It will take about 24 hours to get the info back. The vet went ahead and prescribed baytril and valium...to keep her shaking down. It doesn't seem to be working but I am afraid to up the dosage. The vet said the outlook is not good for the future. I didn't actually see Dr. Fronefield...I saw a lady...who was really good...she wasn't sure about the valium so she asked Dr. Fronefield about possible problems. He said that at this point we have nothing to lose... <img border="0" alt="cry" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />

Since the visit, Kylie has gotten worse. She started walking (if you can call it that) on tip toes with back arched high. I have read about that before but can't remember what it means or what it was related with. Now she has been..trying to walk around on me...but is having like random muscle spasms in her legs...one, two, or even three at at time...causing her to fall over completely. I bought her some mealworms because they were her favorite. She didn't have the strength or ability to bite through them, and she couldn't grip them with her hands.

I couldn't get a stool sample because she was having problems going potty. Only saw a tiny bit last night, none this morning, but when I got home from the vet...she did go...but it was not all stool...she had ingested something...don't know what it is. Size and shape of a little seed. Beige color...I am pretty darn sure it didn't come from anything I have been feeding her...called the vet and asked if it's possible she ingested it before all these symptoms began...like how long it could have been in her system. He said anywhere from 8 hours to weeks. I said maybe that was something toxic that she ate...but he said if it was a toxin...it would have either killed her or she would have been rid of it within 12 to 24 hours. He said it was possible that if it was blocking her digestive tract somewhere along the way it could cause her to become hypoglycemic?? I don't really remember what exactly he said...a lot of it didn't really make sense to me.

I was excited that maybe we had figured out the problem...now I have pretty much lost hope again.

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#1305 - 01/09/03 04:15 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Amie we have been waiting all day to hear from you.
Is she still walking like you described? Did she pass the seed like thing before or after she started walking different?

We will be here for you. You are NOT alone.

Sorry for the questions but did they change the Calcium dosage they had her on?

Sending love and prayers.
_________________________
Love and kindness is a gift. Use it freely....
My Gallery

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#1306 - 01/09/03 04:24 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, I have been checking about every 15 minutes for an update and now I have one - I'm sorry, Amie, I'm so very sorry. <img border="0" alt="cry" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> HOWEVER, maybe things will look up - she passed whatever it was so.... Sorry if I'm rambling, I have great hopes for Kylie and you need to keep your spirits up for both of you! Prayers coming your way big time!
<img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" />

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#1307 - 01/09/03 04:27 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


1)Is still walking this way
2)Started before passing the seed
3)Doc did not change calcium dosage...still worried about possible deficiency...will know for sure when blood work comes back

Ellen...I do not mind the questions. I know you only ask because you are trying to help. So keep em coming!

Charlee...sorry to keep you waiting. (I'm not just being sarcastic...I really mean it.) After I finally got back from the vet I was locked out of the house for about 45 mins...then was on the phone with Mary and the vet's office.

P.S. Talked to Ryan on the phone last night. He was worried about a possible toxin. After seeing what she passed...I am too, despite what the vet said...the vet I saw today at that office did say that it was possible...so basically they are contridicting each other....And I have no way of knowing who is right. Anyway...Ryan suggested I try to flush the toxins out of her system with lots of liquids and red tea. Will be trying this along with continuing the baytril.

<small>[ 01-09-2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: aggiesgirlamie ]</small>

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#1308 - 01/09/03 04:33 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Also...going to give the valium another go...as I am pretty sure the first dose just went down her chin. That was at noon...and have not seen it help whatsoever as of yet. Since it has been 4 and a half hours since then...I don't feel that it's a case of it just not kicking in yet.

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#1309 - 01/09/03 04:36 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


On second thought...the vet said that depending on the cause of the shaking/seizures...the valium may or may not help. So even though it has not done anything...I am afraid I might od her if I give her more....I will wait for an opinion on this. I have given her .05 cc's twice now...since noon...the second was about 1 o' clock. The first I think just dribbled down her chin....

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#1310 - 01/09/03 04:38 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img border="0" alt="wave" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> Amie,

I hope that Kylie makes a quick recovery. All of us are counting on her making it through this illness... and you too!!! <img border="0" alt="thumb" title="" src="graemlins/thumb.gif" />

Glider Blessings,

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#1311 - 01/09/03 04:53 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Charie...I'm so glad you guys are optimistic here...I was trying to be...but after today...I just don't know....

I was feeding some juice and water out of a syringe...ended up with a damp glider...wrapped her in a piece of fleece and stuck in my shirt. She is calming down a lot. Hopefully she will take a nap. Still shaking but at least she is not trying to go anywhere...It just hurts to see her trying to walk. You can't possibly imagine this behavior unless you have seen it. It is awful.

<small>[ 01-09-2003, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: aggiesgirlamie ]</small>

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#1312 - 01/09/03 04:55 PM Re: SEIZURES!!! Help Please! [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Amie, I just spoke with Tom and he and I agree that the way you describe her walking with her back arched and all could be do to abdominal discomfort (pain). I too could not put my finger on it and then remembered one of my little ones that would put his head down and almost tuck it into his chest and would do this every few seconds or min. The vet told me then his tummy hurt. She was right.

If she passed that little "seed" like thing could there be more there or could this have been blocking her? Were her stools normal and consistant before today?

I agree with Ryan that flusing her out may help alot. Did they give her any fluids at the vets's?Sub-Q?
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