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#1307342 - 11/24/12 09:13 PM Advice Needed!
dizzyblue Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 566
Loc: richmond,indiana
Its graphic. But I need some extra advice.

I have two 8 week old joeys. About 24 hours ago my mother and I went to get them and move them to their own cage, so I could take note of their eating habits, and make sure they were progressing fine and using the potty, Normal things.

But when my mom brought out the joeys they were blue and stiff.I was pretty sure they were dead, so I went to take them from my mother, who was trying to stretch them out. When I held them I could tell both were still alive.

We got a syringe and gave each honey and egg, and rubbed on them for about 30-45 minutes.After the initial shock I got the things from my joey rejection kit.I was missing pedilyte so I had to run to the store.

When we got back both gliders were moving and eyes open. I mixed up some formula and pedilyte and we fed them every 2 hours until I got vet contact this morning and took them both in.

One joey is doing much better than the other. After we got some formula in her she would eat on her own since last night, the other will only eat via syringe.So the vet gave each some (Im not sure what its called it starts with a "D" and the assistant said it was just like sugar to pep them up, whatever it was it wasn't on my receipt) And the weaker glider got Sub-Q fluids.

Both are equally excited about the formula now, ears are up and eyes bright.Still only the one will eat on her own. But is there anything else I should be looking out for, and i'm a little confused on how warm they should be kept. The vet advised me to replace the fleece pouch and liner with cotton which I did.

I'm not really sure how to know when i'm out of the woods. Also one joey had solid stools, the other runny, now they both have solid stools. The weak one did come out and climb around the cage for a moment but not too much.

I'm having a hard time finding info on how to care for they joeys since they are so old. And i've been feeding them every 2 hours, they seem to not want to be eating so much. (they are eating 1-2 CC's every 2 hours)

The vet was at a loss because all other gliders in the household are fine. They joeys were out and about the night before this happened though.She suspects the mother glider couldn't produce enough milk for both gliders and it just caught up to them. I just checked and the mama glider does have joeys IP. And they are very large.

They both seem to be staying hydrated and I will be taking them both back to the vet tomorrow if they need more fluids. A sugar glider specialist will be at the office on Wednesday. And both will be going.

Thanks for reading,and sorry so long and discombobulated.I've never experienced anything like this, and i've had gliders for over 6 years!

Here is my cell number ITS TEXT ONLY
765-977-9323
If you have any advice for me





Edited by dizzyblue (11/24/12 09:31 PM)
Edit Reason: Mother does in face have joeys IP

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#1307358 - 11/24/12 10:16 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
These guys are 8 weeks OOP - they should be eating regular food and not relying on mom to eat. What diet are you feeding in your cage?
_________________________
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www.gliderchef.com

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#1307395 - 11/25/12 12:05 AM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
Sweet As Suggies Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 1114
Loc: MI
My gosh, my mouth dropped open in shock, but I'm so happy that it closed again in relief. I'm so happy to hear what a quick response you had, and that both little ones are still alive. Keep us posted...
_________________________
Alicia

:cream: :bb: :plat: :wt: :leu: :wfb:

Naaya & Halo, Solari & Casper, Naphtali & Polar, Twilight & Cherish

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#1307410 - 11/25/12 01:07 AM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
dizzyblue Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 566
Loc: richmond,indiana
I feed Candy's blended. And have never had a problem with it.

I don't think they have been able to eat adequately from mom since she has had joeys in pouch, but i'm not sure if that would make a difference? They joeys IP are very large, like about to come OOP.

They were weighed today,at the vet, and I think they both came in around 38 grams?

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#1307422 - 11/25/12 07:34 AM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
But when my mom brought out the joeys they were blue and stiff.


In all my years of owning gliders, I have never heard of a glider being blue!

I have to agree, at 8 weeks oop they should be eating on their own and they 'should' weigh more than 38 grams at this age. Gliders who have low weights at 6-8 weeks oop normally is an indication that mom is not getting the proper nutrients needed to maintain proper milk supply or nutrients in the milk.

What is the weight of your mom? Can you post some photos of her please? And of the joeys?
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1307427 - 11/25/12 08:23 AM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: Srlb]
Terry Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 4839
Loc: Maryland
I am not familiar with breeding or anything related to joeys. I was wondering though, if the mom was carrying another joey or pair of joey's, could this have been when she was still nursing the first pair? If so, could that be why this 1st pair of joeys have malnutrition and caused that condition? And if that would be the case, did she get pregnant too soon after having joeys?

In any case, I'm sorry you and your joeys have been through this trauma, but very happy to hear there is improvement.
_________________________
Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
3 Sugies, (Ollie, Lulu, & Skadoosh)


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#1307428 - 11/25/12 08:24 AM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2529
Loc: Kentucky
Sigh... I am so sorry to read about this. I do hope your joeys recover with no ill effects. You were probably given a 50% dextrose solution for them, which is a natural sugar. Many of us have had issues with the blended diet. I'm sure you have read the threads. The problems seem to be primarily with nursing moms and joeys weaned onto the diet. I lost one glider and almost lost her two siblings two years ago. The diagnosis on her necropsy was malnutrition. There is obviously something missing in that diet. I do know that many have had no issues, but there are enough of us who have to send up red flags. These are your gliders, and of course your decision on what to feed them.

Those are low weights for your joeys, who should no longer be nursing off mom as their primary source of nutrition. What does mom weigh? Do you know what the joeys weighed when they came OOP?

How are the joeys this morning? What "formula" are you giving them?
_________________________
~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Athena/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Gypsy/Ramon/Paloma
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon

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#1307507 - 11/25/12 06:00 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
Nancy1202 said:
Quote:
I lost one glider and almost lost her two siblings two years ago. The diagnosis on her necropsy was malnutrition.)

Nancy failed to mention here that that her glider was from a line of gliders that was found to have malabsorption issues.

Where were the joeys when your mom found them? In a pouch with other gliders, or on the floor of the cage?

Was there any food available in the cage when the gliders were found unresponsive?

If the honey & egg you fed them perked them up so quickly, they may have had very low blood sugar which can cause them to go into shock.

If the joeys are only 8 weeks OOP and there are additional joeys in pouch that are close to coming out, the mom was basically providing for Quadruplets - not a common situation with gliders. In any event, the 8 week OOP joeys should be eating well on their own and should not be dependent on mom's milk supply at this age.

You asked about how warm to keep them. Is there any sort of heat source in or near the cage? How warm do you keep the room the gliders are in?

I wonder why the vet thought a cotton pouch would be better than the usual fleece pouch. Unless you keep the house very warm the fleece should not be too warm for them. Did the the vet say WHY the cotton pouch would be preferred. You should not need to provide any additional heat for them. At 8 weeks OOP they can maintain their own body temperature.

I hope they continue to improve. Be sure to put food in the cage before your gliders wake up each evening to your gliders can eat some as soon as they are awake and active each evening.



Edited by CandyOtte (11/25/12 06:01 PM)
_________________________
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& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#1307508 - 11/25/12 06:00 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
dizzyblue Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 566
Loc: richmond,indiana
Thanks all.

I left these forums when the issues came up about the diet way back. I just posted a little while back asking about it and didn't get many responses.

Mama glider is very large!

Joeys are eating on their own now, but its still formula. I'm not sure how to introduce them to solid foods. If anyone can help please PM me.

Also they are exploring and grooming. They just wanted to sleep before.

I have an appointment on Wednesday with a specialist to see them.


Edited by dizzyblue (11/25/12 06:02 PM)

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#1307509 - 11/25/12 06:11 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
KarenE Offline
Owner

Registered: 03/25/00
Posts: 41155
Loc: LittleRock, AR USA
Originally Posted By: dizzyblue
Thanks all.

I left these forums when the issues came up about the diet way back. I just posted a little while back asking about it and didn't get many responses.

Mama glider is very large!

Joeys are eating on their own now, but its still formula. I'm not sure how to introduce them to solid foods. If anyone can help please PM me.

Also they are exploring and grooming. They just wanted to sleep before.

I have an appointment on Wednesday with a specialist to see them.


At eight (8) weeks OOP which means eight (8) weeks out of pouch, these joeys should not need any sort of forumula whatsoever.

YOU should not need to "introduce" them to solid foods. The parents should have started doing this at somewhere around 3-4 weeks OOP.

At this point in time,they should be eating the same diet the parents are with NO formula. Or at least I have never heard of supplementing formula in joeys this age if the are otherwise at a healthy weight.
_________________________
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Sugar Glider Help



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#1307510 - 11/25/12 06:11 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
Feather Online   gc/lgc
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11945
Loc: Wisconsin
Are they still in with the parents?

If not just offer them a piece of veggie or fruit just as you would a treat. They will taste it and possible eat it or toss it, just keep offering them tidbits of fruit and veggies they will catch on.
_________________________
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Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
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Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1307514 - 11/25/12 06:20 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
dizzyblue Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 566
Loc: richmond,indiana
they are not with the parents now.
They were 38 grams when I got them weighed.
I haven't tried to feed them anything else yet.
But yes i'll go and give them some regular food,and see how they do.

I PM'd some of you thanks.

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#1307524 - 11/25/12 06:50 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
I wonder if these joeys were OOP before they were ready due to the other set of joeys coming along so quickly. If they were OOP early then they may be developmentally less than 8 weeks OOP and are just beginning to eat fully on their own like joeys that are about 6 weeks OOP. If mom was not letting them nurse they may have been essentially rejected so mom could provide enough milk for the younger in pouch Joeys.

I have not heard of anyone else having two sets of joeys in pouch do close in age.
_________________________
Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#1307528 - 11/25/12 07:04 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
I have had females breed back to back. Several times the joeys are about to come OOP when the first set is ready to go to their new home (8-10 weeks OOP), so nursing different aged joeys at the same time is not uncommon at all. I don't think these joeys would come OOP "early" so mom can produce milk for the younger joeys.

Actually, this is one of the cool things with gliders, they produce different types of milk based on the ages of joeys they are nursing. So I don't think milk production is an issue based on having 2 sets of joeys nursing at the same time.
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

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#1307529 - 11/25/12 07:04 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Candy, what has your experience been with joeys born at your house?
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1307537 - 11/25/12 07:18 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: CandyOtte]
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2529
Loc: Kentucky
Quote:
Nancy1202 said:
Quote:
I lost one glider and almost lost her two siblings two years ago. The diagnosis on her necropsy was malnutrition.)
Nancy failed to mention here that that her glider was from a line of gliders that was found to have malabsorption issues.
I failed to mention quite a few things because I did not think they were pertinent to dizzyblue's post. What IS pertinent, and what needs to be ruled out are common factors that have been experienced by other breeders that may have contributed to the condition of these joeys. I don't believe genetic malabsorption would be "curable". The two gliders I was mentioned above did a complete turnaround with a diet change and vet care. They have made a full recovery, look great, are extremely active and are thriving.
_________________________
~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Athena/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Gypsy/Ramon/Paloma
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon

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#1307544 - 11/25/12 07:40 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
I have not heard of anyone else having two sets of joeys in pouch do close in age.


I have had joeys that were 3-5 weeks out of pouch and joeys in pouch at the same time. It isnt uncommon for some moms to do this at all. Takara was well known for it, and Fauna is currently following that same track.

Quote:
Actually, this is one of the cool things with gliders, they produce different types of milk based on the ages of joeys they are nursing. So I don't think milk production is an issue based on having 2 sets of joeys nursing at the same time.


I completely agree with this Shelly.

There is actually a very interesting study that was written called:

Prenatal Protein Malnutrition and Visual Discrimination Learning in the Sugar Glider, Petaurs Breviceps
Fred Punzo, All Laird and Erica Pedrosa

I had to read this when working on my diet. Just one of the many.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1307550 - 11/25/12 08:16 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 3826
Loc: Big Sandy TN
How long have these joey's not been with their parents? were they just removed today when you found them? or have they been removed from mom and dad longer?

My joeys all are pretty much weaned between 6-7 weeks and eating on their own. they just learn so much more in the last couple of weeks. But mine usually are eating on their own completely at 6 weeks. I have never offered formula unless I have had to handraise.
_________________________
sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


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#1307551 - 11/25/12 08:19 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
My joey experience in my home has nothing to do with the original poster's question but I will answer any way.

My only breeding pair have had a total of 6 joeys the first 2 were single joeys OOP about 6 months apart, the next set of twins were OOP about about 8 months after that and the last ones are about 9 or 10 weeks OOP and Kanobles and the other boys except the youngest have all been neutered. The first joey lives with Art & Paulette and the rest are all here and thriving in a family colony.
_________________________
Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#1307553 - 11/25/12 08:25 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
JadeEliz Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 239
Loc: Danville, VA
Candy what do you think caused your girl to have such long gaps between joeys? Was she pulling or did you give her breaks?
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#1307555 - 11/25/12 08:27 PM Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue]
JeremysDad Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 311
Loc: Raymond, NH, USA
I have to agree, if honey ad egg perked them up that quickly, it was prolly a low blood sugar shock thing. I have one little girl that exhibits LBS and needs to be fed on time and have snacks (she's has been to the vet and is fine otherwise)
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