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#130995 - 08/10/06 07:35 PM Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPherson?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I was reading about this diet, however it does seem to be a few year old. Does anyone use this? I just think a simple diet like this would be easier to feed for the average pet owner than some others. I read about it Bourbon's page I think. It says some problems can be intestinal blockage and kidney failure. I think the intestinal blockage could maybe be helped by soaking it in a little apple juice every night. I don't know about the kidney failure- does it have too much of any kinds of vitamins or minerals or anything? And what would be the preferred cat food for this? I just know that there are a lot of people on here that know a lot about glider nutrition and thought that they have surely looked into this. Hopefully people will post that actually know what cat food contains and how these ingredients are for gliders, not just saying that cat food is bad because that is what they have heard. Also what is the calcium/phosphorus ratio of cat food? And do gliders even like the taste of it? I would really appreciate feed back on this one.

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#130996 - 08/10/06 07:41 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPherson? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wish I could help you, but I feed the Suncoast diet, so I'm a duck outta water when it comes to mixing anything, lol. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to help you out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#130997 - 08/10/06 07:46 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPherson? [Re: ]
myangelbear77 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 2258
Loc: Homestead, FL
Cat food causes cancer in ferrerts so I would not want to even guess at what it would do to a glider...
_________________________
Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.


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#130998 - 08/10/06 07:49 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: Feather]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]There has been a lot of debate about this diet in the past... Many people feel that the cat food is really not a good option for feeding to gliders. IF you do go with this diet, be aware that you will need to buy the highest grade cat food to ensure good nutritional value...
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:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
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#130999 - 08/10/06 08:02 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Everything I have ever read says that cat food is bad for suggies. I wouldn't suggest using it.

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#131000 - 08/10/06 08:05 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh no, I wouldn't think ANY kind of cat food would be okay in any kind of diet. Sorry I didn't mention that sooner, but I somehow missed that part of your post. Please look over the diets page here and forget anything to do with cat food. Of course that's MY opinion and I'm sure others will come along soon with their imput as well <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#131001 - 08/10/06 08:18 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


So I know that a lot of people think cat food is bad. I already knew that. But what is bad in it? And her diet is not only cat food. So cat food causes cancer in ferrets- but what in it causes the cancer? I just want to know what are the bad ingredients and why they are bad, not general answers.

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#131002 - 08/10/06 08:30 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


don't know what causes the cancer in ferrets, but I do know that people have an issue with the ash content in most cat foods, and you will also hear about gliders having trouble with hard foods (yes I realize you said you would soak it in juice), there's also the perservatives and what they make cat food outta (chicken meal and the like)

you might want to search the board for Moorie (I think it's Moorie89) she's in the UK and feeds a diet that has cat food in it (though it is not the major item) she might be able to steer you towards what to look for in a cat food!

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#131003 - 08/10/06 08:36 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you. I'm not looking into this diet for myself as I can handle and enjoy a complicated diet. I just wanted to know more about it and if I could recommend it to people. I did just read that it can be too high in fat, but as it only part of the diet I don't know how much of a problem this would be.
Here is a link to the full diet http://www.angelfire.com/nb/sugarglider/diet/caroline.html

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#131004 - 08/10/06 08:40 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Paula0442 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Williamsburg, VA & Whg, WV
Why in the world would cat food cause cancer in ferrets?
Who makes up this stuff??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming
WOOOO HOOOO, WHAT A RIDE!!!



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#131005 - 08/10/06 08:51 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPherson? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The Healesville Sanctuary feeds their gliders a ballanced diet that includes dog food. It's a dried pallet that they include in the diet everyday. My gliders love it. Gliders also chew bark in the wild and I have never seen any evidence that hard foods are directly related to any health problems. I do not add apple juice or anything to soften the pellet as they love chewing them. The sanctuary has been breeding gliders for many years with great success. The only more human type food that is on the diet is the High protein baby cereal. I like to give my gliders less processed foods and believe that a diet that has been around for over 30 years raising healthy gliders should be taken notice of.

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#131006 - 08/10/06 08:51 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Two of the vets I use do recommend cat food for gliders, but not any type of grocery store cat food. Yes, these are vets who see lots of gliders. They are two of the four vets at Westgate Pet and Bird, who are known to have the best glider specialists Austin. One of the vets there did say that he doesn't like cat food in a glider diet though.

The cat food they recommend is Zupreem Exotic Feline diet, which is canned. Here are the ingredients and analysis:

Ingredients:
Chicken, liver, water, meat by-products, poultry by-product meal, animal fat, ground corn, powdered cellulose, iodized salt, potassium chloride, taurine, choline chloride, iron oxide, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, cobalt carbonate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, thiamine, niacin, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Moisture (max) 63
Crude Protein (min) 16
Crude Fat (min) 14
Calcium (min) 4
Ash (max) 3
Crude Fiber (max) 1
Phosphorus (min) 0.3
Taurin (min) 0.05

Now Dancing told me she worries about Taurine in cat food, but I don't remember what the reason was, or whether 0.05% is less than is in normal cat foods. Maybe she'll post about it.

I am torn on using cat food. I don't think of it as a staple, but as a protien source like insects, chicken, turkey or eggs. I tried it for a week or two and my gliders LOVED it. Not only did they devour the Zupreem, but they also ate their fruits and veggies better than they ever did before when I first fed it to them. I stopped using it though because I just don't feel right about cat food as a part of glider diets.

My friend, who is a tech at the vet hospital where these doctors practice, says she's had her gliders on it for over a year and they are very healthy and have had healthy joeys.

Anyway, there's my $0.02. Take it for what it's worth, which may be nothing. I'm not promoting cat food for gliders, but this particular one may have a place. It is a canned food so there's not the issue of crunchiness to cause lumpy jaw. I'm not crazy about ground corn being in it, but I think it's way further down the list than it would be in a regular cat food. Some people don't like to see the word "by product" in the ingredients, but that just means it contains parts of the meat or poultry that woudn't be used in other ways. When a glider eats a pinky or whatever, it eats the whole thing, so I don't see a problem with using by products. It is high in fat, (even higher than mealies, which are 12.7% as noted in the Phoenix Worms post) so that is a concern.

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#131007 - 08/11/06 04:45 AM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok, I'll try not to get too heated on this one! lol - it really gets my goat though! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Cat food is always slated as being bad for gliders, I've had my gliders on a diet including CF for 5 years. Whilst I've been using this diet I've not had a single case of 'lumpy jaw', I've not had a single case of HLP nor have I ever had to take any of them to the vets with health problems. Before I started using CF though I did have a case of 'Lumpy jaw', but anyway that's a different story. I don't use it as a staple diet, I use it as Peecekeeper said as a protein source, they don't get it every night either. The stuff I use has a ca:p ratio of 1:1 and all the ingredients in it are in other glider specific dietary items such as Insectivore Fare. I don't know what the issue with Taurine is? But I do know it's also in IF. It's a diet that has always served me well, a friend of mine has also used it for over 10 years, again without any problems. We have very healthy grey gliders (no discolouring) and our joeys are always healthy and by 3 months are absolutely huge!! The only time any of mine have suffered with constipation is when I've tried Leadbeaters - so I go straight back to CF! I've never had problems with intestinal blockages (don't forget they spit out the dried remains anyway!) or kidney failure. The stools are always a moist plump healthy brown (yes I study them - lol), so what else can I say?

As far as I'm concerned my gliders are living proof that's it's not as bad as people think. HOWEVER, I would never use the tinned meat kind of cat food, nor would I recommend any other than the kind I've looked into - no cheap alternatives!!

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#131008 - 08/11/06 09:17 AM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ozzi]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The thing with cat food is that is designed for cats. Dog food is for dogs, bird food is for birds, fish food is for fish, etc. Cat food was not designed with sugar gliders in mind. It does not fill their dietary needs and there fore should not be a staple diet. Sugar gliders in the wild eat mostly bugs and tree sap. Nothing extremely hard and crunchy. They don't have the digestive system to digest cat food properly and take the nutrients they need from it. I'm no cat food expert or anything but I do know that it shouldn't be fed to sugar gliders under any circumstance. It was made to me the dietary needs of a CAT.

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#131009 - 08/11/06 10:58 AM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks everyone for all the information. I should have known this would be a heated topic but just wanted some facts.

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#131010 - 08/11/06 12:33 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I hear about the "Gliders living in the wild in Australia this", and "Gliders living in the wild in Australia that", and the gliders I have were NEVER in the wild. They have always been and are my domesticated endearing pets living in my home. Here. In The United States. Where they are not around all the natural habitat of that of a glider 'living in the wild in Australia'. So should not be considered that.
I just wanted to say that.

Oh and I don't feed cat food. Many have successfully, .... I will just watch at a near distance, their glider's success.

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#131011 - 08/12/06 01:36 AM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ozzi]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Interesting discussion.

moorie999, what cat food do you feed? I'll wager it's only available in your neck of the woods, eh? Or is it the Zupreem Exotic Feline diet that Sundra's vets recommend.
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
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#131012 - 08/12/06 01:48 AM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


If cat food is ment for cats and dog food is ment for dogs why do so many people feed their gliders baby food and yoghurt, apple juice etc????????

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#131013 - 08/12/06 09:36 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: beans1977]
Anonymous
Unregistered


uh you mean people food? There's a big difference there buddy. If that's the way you think why not have youself a bowl of dog food for breakfast tomorrow and then come back with that question...

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#131014 - 08/13/06 07:41 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPher [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Let's keep this on topic and play nice, okay guys? I don't want to see this thread locked. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I believe the point is that we have taken animals out of the wild (dogs, cats, sugar gliders), and we try to feed them the most nutritious diets that match what they might nutritionally find in the wild. Granted, there aren't grocery stores or pet stores in the wild with a wide selection of bagged, canned, bottled, and prepared foods as there is for our household pets, but that doesn't stop us from opening a can of Alpo (or whatever) for Bowser or a bag of Friskies for Meowser.

It just so happens we can feed our sugar gliders some of the foods we eat (e.g., fresh fruits and veggies, even if they don't match what they might find in the wild), as well as some of the foods our other pets or we eat, depending on the diet plan chosen. Much thought has gone into the various diets on the diet page. Some of the ingredients may come from a high-quality cat food or a high-quality baby food.

The original question wasn't asking for opinions on whether or not feeding cat food is bad or good, but why, specifically, a certain opinion is held. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#131015 - 08/13/06 08:52 PM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPherson? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I bought my gliders from a breeder that fed cat food. I feed mine natural balance cat food in conjunction with the suncoast diet (which I don't think they actually eat) fresh organic veggies, yogurt, fruits, etc. check out the ingredient list. chicken... oatmeal... carrots... no scary by-products.

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#131016 - 08/14/06 03:44 AM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPherson? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The arguement cat food is for cats is not a valid argument at all! Gliders don't eat fruit in the wild, gliders don't eat baby food or yogurt in the wild! Can I also point out that repcal is for reptiles - yet that's ok??

If it was relabelled as glider pellets - would that make any difference? I forgot to look up the ingredients again - but I have researched the kind I use extensively, and as I said earlier many of them are in Insectivore Fare and other glider specific dietary items, in fact there wasn't one I couldn't find at least twice! So if all the ingredients are acceptable in other products then why not cat food?

Since I joined GC, due to the amount of pressure I was under from certain members who no longer seem to be around I researched cat food properly. Every time I tried a different diet something happened and I immediately went back to my original diet. It's time people accepted there are other diets out there which do work. At least with 'my' diet I can give my gliders variation, I know with bml you're quite limited to what fruits and veggies you can feed (I'm NOT bashing) this way, so long as the diet in it's entirity is 2:1 I can give them almost anything, and to me variation is important. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#131017 - 08/14/06 10:34 AM Re: Caroline's Simplified Diet by Caroline MacPherson? [Re: ozzi]
Anonymous
Unregistered


If it was relabelled as glider pellets - would that make any difference? I forgot to look up the ingredients again - but I have researched the kind I use extensively, and as I said earlier many of them are in Insectivore Fare and other glider specific dietary items, in fact there wasn't one I couldn't find at least twice! So if all the ingredients are acceptable in other products then why not cat food?

I agree.

what kind do you use?

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