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#132003 - 08/13/06 10:18 PM Need Advice (picture added)

Ok this is about Drake.

I'll give all the history so y'all know that before replying.

We got Drake in June of 05. He and his mate came together, they had been together all their lives. We were told they were "around seven years old". Thier situation was pretty ugly. We did not KNOW this was going to be the case when we decided to get them. In fact we had planned to get a glider from a lady who was a rescue and she said we were not ready for a rescue and her neighbor had these two she wanted to sell were we interested in them? We said yes. So instead of a rescue we got a breeding pair (why we were "ready" for a breeding pair but not a rescue is beyond me).

So we go in the house. The gliders are in an emty room in a small cage thats coated with brown urine. They had a wire wheel and a piece of sweatshirt with a string through four corners as a pouch. We had a small travel cage and she insisted on giving us the pouch. It stunk so bad on the way home that we had to stop and throw it away. There we were calling Tonia from the road asking her omg what do we do???

I don't know what diet they were on. We never got to talk to the owners, the *rescue* lady took us next door to the house to get them. She pulled an ice cube tray out of the freezer and sniffed the ice cubes and said it was a fruit mixture. That's all we got. I will admit I was a bit ready to run at this point... all we wanted was to get the gliders and get OUT.

Ok we brought them home and got them on BML. Both were friendly and the male bonded quickly and tightly with my husband. We had a big cage and things for them and for the first few days Drake would run around the cage and do backflips off the top, but he stopped doing that after the first few days.

At some point we stopped feeding BML. I'm not sure when exactly it was though.

Fast forward a month and The famale got killed by a cat. I had an extremely injured cat I was nursing and decided to put him in my bedroom (with the gliders, not my brightest moment) and my daughter asked to feed mealworms and left the cage door open. Drake and Faun both got loose and Faun probably attacked the cat (she hated cats, she'd attacked mine before but mine ran away) but either way we found her dead. She wasnt waten she just had puntures. We were standing in the bedroom and tim looks over by the closet to see if Drakes body is anywhere and he zooms out of the closet and up Tim and onto his shoulder.

So Drake is alone. I got an adult female to go with him in August. Everything went ok for a while. She was dominant but he didn't seem to mind. They had a joey in feb. The mother cannibilized the joey at 10 days oop. We left them together (with a second chance mentality since we'd gone back on BML after this happened) but they didn't breed again. A few months later we found Drake had a spot on the back of his neck chewed up. We took him into the vet and he was put on antibiotics to aviod infection. We knew the female had done this to him because he couldn't have done it to himself. We had them seperate for a month while it healed then put them back together. She went for it instantly so they were taken apart permently.

We decided to try to find a younger female for him with the idea that the female had done this as a dominance thing. We thought a younger female would be easier on him. We ended up getting twin girls that were four months old. I wanted the two because if one died or something happened he would not again be left alone. So we got twins. We didn't put them in with him right away, of course. They were beside him for about two weeks and during that time he ate less and less and started to lose weight. We thought he was depressed so we made the hard choice to go ahead and house them together so he'd have company.

This was about four or so months ago. One female is about to have a joey any day now.

When I put the girls with him he was 110g. He got down to 100g the next time I weighed him and today he is 94g.

I went in tonight to check everyone and give treats and I noticed he's got a spot on the back of his neck again. I call in tim and we get him held to look and it's not a chewed spot but it's in the same spot and it's like just taken down through the first layer of flesh. So it's obviously groomed away but not to the point the last female did it to him.

So we seperated him. I have the two girls alone.

The one girl is expecting a baby and minute now. I'm so scared about that. I'm thankfull she isn't alone but neither of them have any clue what they are doing.

And drake is losing weight, and has a spot on the back of his neck that seems to be of particular interest to try to groom away by his cagemates. What could it be?? I have no idea!!

I'll get him into the vet as soon as possible in the morning but I need to know if anyone has any idea of what it might be? I'm very confused and scared for him. I just have no idea at all whats going on. We didn't investigate a possible cause before because we all (our vet included) thought it was a case of the female trying to be dominant.

Thanks for reading!

#132004 - 08/13/06 11:18 PM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
There are many possibilities. One of them could be he has an abcess that has or is trying to rupture. It is so hard to say. Definately a vet visit and have him do a culture on the sore.

As for the weight loss, this could be caused from so many things too. Have the vet check for bacteria and parasites. Fecal float and direct smear and a UA. You might even want him to do a culture and sensitivity.

Monitor how well he is eating. I would even count the number of peas etc...that you put on his plate and keep a record of it.

With the history you described, he could have problems that have been well hidden from you that were caused by his previous situation.

I'm sorry I can't be more help.
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance

The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

#132005 - 08/13/06 11:20 PM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
Oh my, you have been through the wringer with Drake. In my opinion a vet visit is in order with all of the usual test to be run....fecal float, smear, urine analysis and cytology. In the meantime, I'd keep him separate from the girls to avoid them bothering the spot (at least until after the vet visit). With her expecting, that is a concern because you don't want to stress her. Luckily, she does have her sister to help care for the joey and is not totally alone right now.
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be

#132006 - 08/14/06 02:22 AM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]

It's all very confusing! We'll get the whole round of testing for him for sure. I just wish I had some idea what to expect.

The worst part is I think I should probably keep him alone now but I'm not certain how well he'll handle that. I can't imagine it being a parasite or something that can be *cured* when his cagemates are doing this to him.

I'm just very confused <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

#132007 - 08/14/06 05:12 AM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I have no doubt that the initial wound was caused by his cagemate. In all likelihood, it didn't heal completely internally before being put back with the cagemate & so she reopened it while "grooming" it for him. An internal bacterial infection within the wound would cause the new gliders to start grooming it as well, and could also be the cause of the continual weight loss.
At this point, have the vet take a tissue sample and send it in for culture & sensitivity. The vet should debride the edges of the wound and then stitch it, leaving a drainage tube in the wound so that it can heal internally as well as externally. A broad spectrum antibiotic would be in order until the C&S results come back and that will tell the vet exactly what specific antibiotic should be prescribed at that point.
Unfortunately, Drake will probably end up with a scar from this, but that is a nominal thing in the big picture. As to whether he will ever be able to be housed with other gliders again is a big question. I would keep him separated for at least 3 months in order to give the wound time to completely heal both internally & externally.
I don't know if you remember or not, but my DaisyMae went through something similar to Drake during the past year. She appears to now be totally healed. She does have a scar, but it's not too bad, just looks like some fur is missing from her shoulder. She has been separated from her daughter for about 6 months now. I will not be putting her back in with Mareki, but I am about to start introducing her to Gizmo (neutered male) and Allira (granddaughter). However, I will be keeping a very close eye on them to make sure the site does not get reopened...
Attached is a picture of DaisyMae's back before her last surgery. Initially the vet used regular deteriorating stitches but Daisy removed them (as shown in the picture). When the vet redid it, she used 90 days stitches that eventually did deteriorate on their own, but not for a very long time. In fact, the final stitch had to be removed by the vet at her last visit about a month ago.

As for the mother with the joeys in pouch - the good news is that her sister is with her to help raise the joeys. As long as she has a companion to help, she should be fine... it doesn't necessarily have to be the father to fill the role of helper.

Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help out. You know I'm just a phone call away <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

614895-Daisy'sBackrdc.JPG (49 downloads)

Edited by sugarglidersuz (08/14/06 05:14 AM)
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah

Suz' Sugar Gliders

#132008 - 08/14/06 12:41 PM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]

Here is a picture. We'll be taking him to the vet this evening. I'll update then.

615064-DSC01290.JPG (74 downloads)

#132009 - 08/14/06 12:50 PM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]
Keyosmama Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 2175
Loc: Ontario , Canada
Ouch, poor guy. I don't have any experience with this sort of thing but I am thinking of you and also of drake as well. i hop the vet can shed some light on this and he can start to heal up hopefully permanently.

Sending Hugs and healing thoughts,

Amanda, Jeff&

A Pomchi named Wickett
A Yorkie named Meeya
A Great Dane named Berlyn
5 Cats Kamorah, Aiko, Mo, Peekaboo, & Alice
Someday Ill have more suggies... frown
2 skin kids - Xander Finlay James March6 2010, and Rohan Kingsley July 5 2011

#132010 - 08/14/06 01:29 PM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
Poor little man… <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> My female unfortunately has had this happen… vet care is what needs to happen, let us know what the vet says….
* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!

#132011 - 08/14/06 11:40 PM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]

His body x ray was completely normal.

His fecal float was negative.

His fecal smear had four roundworm eggs in it.

It is extremely rare for gliders to get worms. Sometimes something in the diet will present as a roundworm egg but I can't think of anything at all in my diet that could have been mistaken for eggs. I have no idea what happened and I'll be gathering more samples tomorrow to be tested from my other gliders so we can see how far the problem goes in my gliders.

Drake will get blood tests next week.

I'll keep you all posted.

#132012 - 08/14/06 11:50 PM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
First: TREAT THE ROUNDWORM. It is NOT normal for a glider to present with that, and would account for the weight loss-where there are eggs, there are adults, and they are taking his nutrients-Ivermectin is probably the med you want to ask for.

SECOND: the wound on his neck does look infected-it shouldn't be yellow-that is pus and a tell tale sign of active infection. An antibiotic for that is necessary.

Also-if he is fighting a roundworm infection at the same time, the wound may not be healing as it should under the skin. Hence the reopening. They BOTH need treated until healed. It's not his cagemate's fault-they are reacting on instinct, and only trying to help-but roundworm CAN be transferred EASILY, so I would suggest testing the others as well.

Edited by Xfilefan (08/14/06 11:51 PM)
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

#132013 - 08/15/06 12:43 AM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]

I was given Panacur for everyone.

I want to know how far it's spread to know if the joey's I've sold could be affected. I will, of course, inform my buyers of this problem but I'd like more information first.

Tomorrow I'll get weights and samples from everyone and everyone will be started on panacur tomorrow after I get stool samples. Three day treatments.

I was also given Sulfatrim suspention for the wound, it is not infected thats just the scab. My camera makes colors look yellower than they really are. The vet absolutely said with how deep it is that infection is a possability.

It's been around 6 months since the origional wound and we have seen no sign of anything there for around 4 months. I do not think it's been under the skin not healed all this time. He's been with the new cagemates almost 3 months and nothing at all has been happeneing to that spot in all that time.

The vet said roundworms could have caused the females to do the injury to him, she said they kind of go crazy when they are sick like that. We aren't sure but we've decided that Drake will be kept as a single from now on. Next time we might not catch it as quick or they might not be as tentative in their grooming and do more damage. We do not want to find him one day eaten in his cage.

We aren't upset with the cagemates... the edges of the wound are not messy so he wasnt chewed like last time. It looks more like very intent deep grooming.

I completely understand the seriousness of this, please don't YELL at me. I took him to the vet, they will all be treated, and I will do the best I can to resolve this.

#132014 - 08/15/06 12:57 AM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I'm not trying to yell...just "stress". Let's see if this works better. Now, roundworm "is" common to cats-and it sounds like there has been some interacton-I would think that is where contamination ocurred. A glider even outside the cage-can come in contact with fecal matter a cat has transferred on it's feet (believe me, I LOVE cats and have had many, just not currently). Going by the pic, tho, as requested, the yellow color was alarming.

So..just trying to help. As to previously sold joeys-it would depend on when contamination occurred, and whether they could have been exposed. If there's a chance, I'd test them, at the very least.
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

#132015 - 08/15/06 09:40 AM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]

Oh no! I sure do hope you figure out everything and see who all has been infected by this and can get everyone healed!!!

#132016 - 08/15/06 10:16 AM Re: Need Advice [Re: ]

I'm glad you got them on Panacur. However, three day treatments sound kinda short to me. I guess your vet suggested that because they don't have symptoms at this time, but believe me, I just went through this with Jeepers and Peepers. Jeepers had been sick starting Wednesday and died on Sunday. Peepers never showed any symptoms until late Monday/early Tuesday after Jeepers died. I had been allowing them to stay together when Jeeps was sick because we didn't really think what she had was infective (wrong, I guess. We still don't truly know that what Peepers had was the same as what killed Jeepers). If I hadn't been watching Peepers like a hawk, I easily could have missed the symptoms until it was too late.

Anyway, discuss with your vet maybe treating a little longer and be sure to keep their cage absolutely as sanitary as possible, especially not allowing them any access to their poops (pick them up right away and wipe with disinfectant or wash especially the bottom as often as possible) and cleaning dishes with 10% bleach solution.

I also would have liked to have seen a culture and sensitivity done on the wound. I know (believe me) that is a little more expensive, but it really gives valuable information when you find out not only exactly what bug you're fighting, but also which antibiotic is the best one to treat it with.

Good luck, I hope Drake gets all better.


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