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#1353761 - 09/20/13 03:47 PM non-refundable vs refundable deposits
Chattenoire Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 227
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I would like to get a general consensus on what the glider community thinks is 'ethical' regarding non-refundable deposits.

I'm trying to decide if I should make my deposits refundable. Part of me feels that it should NOT be refundable because I'm holding that animal for a certain person who has promised to purchase it. What a waste of time, effort, and potential customers who would have already bought that glider, should this person change their mind. I really can't stand time-wasters.

On the other hand, is enforcing a non-refundable deposit forcing this person into purchasing an animal they no longer want or can take care of? Is this responsible of a breeder who is supposed to have the gliders well being in mind over money? Is it looked down upon in the community?

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#1353776 - 09/20/13 08:24 PM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
To me...a deposit is given to "hold" a glider for a certain buyer.

If that buyer backs out of the "deal" for any reason, then they forfiet the deposit. And ONLY the deposit, not any extra they have paid towards the full sale price.
Say a glider cost $500 with a $100 deposit. The buyer pays $250 towards the sale and then backs out. $150 should be returned to the buyer with the seller keeping the deposit of $100.

But...ultimately, it is up to each breeder to decide IF they want to consider "extenuating circumstances" as to why the buyer backs out. (say there is an unexpected death in the family causing hardship) You may decide to refund all or part of the deposit. The buyer should be told up front the deposit policy so there are no surprises and signed contracts should be done so there isn't any "guesswork" involved.

But...if the seller backs out, for any reason, then the deposit should be refunded.
_________________________
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Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

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But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1353816 - 09/21/13 09:07 AM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
I agree with Dancing.

Originally Posted By: Chattenoire
On the other hand, is enforcing a non-refundable deposit forcing this person into purchasing an animal they no longer want or can take care of? Is this responsible of a breeder who is supposed to have the gliders well being in mind over money? Is it looked down upon in the community?


No, it is not forcing them to purchase the glider. You are simply not refunding the deposit they paid. If they decide to follow through with the purchase, neither of you are out anything.

And lets face it, it is about money. It isn't the primary reason we breed, but it is a purchase. A purchase requires money. We as breeders need to have a bit of protection, and we do that in way of a deposit. That deposit means we are no longer advertising/looking for a home for that joey. If a buyer backs out, the breeder now has to work twice as hard (in some cases) to find a new home for that joey. Although I don't understand it, but older joeys are harder to find homes for.

If you are uncomfortable about taking too much money, you can always do what I do. I tell them how much the deposit is, and that it is non-refundable, then allow them to make an additional payment if they want at that time. The additional payment would be refundable if they were to back out. Again, as Dancing said, a breeder can take extenuating circumstances into consideration. You can always refund 100% of their money if you so choose.

I don't think the "community" would look down upon anyone for following a non-refundable deposit. Most breeders have this policy in place.
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Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

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#1353826 - 09/21/13 10:45 AM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Deposits are non-refundable by default. They are insurance that a person isn't going to waste your time and drag you along for 8+ weeks only to back out of an adoption when the time comes to get the baby, at which point you would be stuck trying to find a home for a joey that is already weaned and ready to go.

If deposits were to be refundable then you'd have no assurance that a person isn't just wasting your time. :/

People should know BEFORE putting down a deposit whether or not they really want that joey. If they aren't serious about it, then they shouldn't be trying to buy the joey in the first place.

Lastly, I do have a policy to where if *I* cancel an adoption for some reason then the deposit is refunded. It's only non-refundable if the person adopting the glider is the one to back out.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#1353865 - 09/21/13 10:10 PM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
Chattenoire Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 227
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Okay thank you for your input. On a dog breeding forum, people had made comments on a similar topic like:

Quote:
Usually a good, ethical reputable breeder will do that [refund a deposit]...because they know their pups are sought out and can be placed in a well matched home so the deposit they refund would not be a burden down the road(reputation word again)


So I was thinking that if I were to NOT refund a deposit, would that look bad on me?

But I think I am going to write up a contract and make the potential buyer put 20% down as a non-refundable deposit. I wanted to get your opinions before doing this, and it seems we are all on the same page with this. I just really can't stand time-wasters.

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#1353868 - 09/21/13 11:10 PM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
Terry Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 4975
Loc: Maryland
I'm not a breeder but, I wanted to weigh in as a consumer. I feel any ethical person seriously looking for a glider or any pet should expect deposits to be non -refundable if they cancel purchase.
_________________________
Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
2 Sugies, (Ollie & Skadoosh)
R.I.P. Lulu (2/28/12-10/13/17)

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#1353900 - 09/22/13 10:03 AM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: Chattenoire
So I was thinking that if I were to NOT refund a deposit, would that look bad on me?


No I don't think it would make you look bad at all. However, your customers need to be made fully aware of this BEFORE you accept any money. wink

As for a contract, I have a template on my website for use if you are intersted.
Contract Template
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1353905 - 09/22/13 11:00 AM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
Chattenoire Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 227
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Perfect, thank you!!

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#1353936 - 09/22/13 06:32 PM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
:urwelcome:
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1354013 - 09/23/13 11:17 PM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
I thought it also might be worth mentioning that I count deposits towards the total cost of the glider. Meaning, if I were to charge a 25% deposit on a $200 glider, then the person would only owe $150 after having paid the deposit. It's not an additional amount being paid on top of the cost of the glider.

I know that most people already know this, but I've had a couple times when customers accidentally paid too much because they didn't realize that the deposit was part of the total. tounge

In fact, I just had to refund $60 to someone yesterday because they paid the total AND a deposit, lol. I got a bit of a giggle from it, but it made me realize that no everyone knows that deposits are part of the total.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#1354016 - 09/24/13 12:23 AM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
SugarSpice Offline
New Member

Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 13
Loc: az
As a buyer, I like non-refundable deposits. This ensures for me that I am indeed getting the glider i wanted and that no one with a wad of cash laying around can snag it up!

I have lost 3 deposits to date. Meaning, that I backed out of the sale. The first two were placed quite a time back and then after researching more I realized I was no where ready to own a glider. I then helped a buddy of mine hand feed 5+ joeys on and care for her pairs on a daily basis for a few years. The last deposit I lost was a month ago. A store keeper and I were chatting up and we crossed over the topic of local breeders. She shrieked when I mentioned the name of the breeder I was going to buy from. After discussing as to why it was a bad idea...I quickly called the breeder and told them to keep the deposit and never to contact me. Apparently, the breeder is not licensed and sells sterile gliders from very inbred lines.

SO they can be consider losses but I prefer to think of them as benefits that don't leave the selling party with wasted time.
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:bb: Migsby :grey: Nona
~Nona has a joey in pouch~

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#1354106 - 09/24/13 10:13 PM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
QueenSue Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 99
Loc: Michigan
hey, hey, hey I knew the deposit was apart of the cost, I just forgot I paid it lol, was just in a rush to get out the door that I didn't even think about it lol
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#1354110 - 09/24/13 11:43 PM Re: non-refundable vs refundable deposits [Re: Chattenoire]
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1523
Loc: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Anne, I do have a non-refundable policy in place, which is out lined in my contract.

For all the reasons you stated. If you do not, people tend to take advantage.

If they want to return the gliders after the first 30 days, I do not offer a refund. It will take me longer to find homes for older animals, and in some cases, I get animals back I have to vet. They are taking up cage space, I have to feed them and clean them, and my time is valuable. Every minute that I have to clean cages, is another moment away from family life.

If I can't take them back at that time, I make myself the administrator in approving the next home for their safety.

You will find that many people change animals as often as coats. Your time is precious for sure.
_________________________
Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



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