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#1360906 - 01/03/14 02:27 PM lost her cage mate - now what?
IndieAndStella Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 573
Loc: New York
Hi everyone -

I lost my little Indie yesterday morning, to unknown causes after showing illness symptoms for less than 12 hours. She will be going to Val and the Sugar Group for answers.

My biggest concern now is her cage-mate Stella. Ive had Stella since she was about 3 months OOP. She wasnt socialized much prior to coming to live with me, but was in a big colony of gliders. She has never been caged alone, and took to me immediately and is generally OK with new people. She is a very calm and over all chill glider. The only time she gets overly excited is when theres avocado present :0) This morning, after sniffing around and not sensing Indie, she wanted out of the cage and didn't want to leave me. Unfortunately, I had to go to work and if not for the big snow storm we are experiencing now, would have brought her to work with me.

What is the best course of action here? Spend as much time as possible with her, until I can find her a cage mate? Or do I keep her schedule as normal as possible. Also, how much time should I let her grieve before trying to get her a new friend? The thing is, I never actually saw Indie and Stella play together. During play time, theyd always go off to different areas and if there were treats involved, most of the time they wouldnt fight over the treats, but rather move to a dif area. They loved cuddling and grooming and sleeping together though. Only on 2 - 3 occasions did i ever find them sleeping separately in 2 years. But, Stella sometimes would run from Indie bc she DIDNT want to be groomed or bothered. Indie was pretty persistent and I know Stella was annoyed at times. So Im thinking its probably best to get an older glider for Stella, as opposed to a baby. Thoughts?

I stuffed a few extra fleece pieces in her pouch for warmth (one with Indie's scent on it), and I have a small stuffed animal shaped like a glider that I was going to put in there in a few days - didnt want to shock her right away with a purple, non moving version of Indie just yet.

what else should I be doing for her? if anyone hears of any babies needing rescue in the NY area, please send them to me!!!

As a very last resort - I would be willing to rehome Stella, if I can not find her a suitable cagemate in time and someone has a pair or colony they would like to add her to. I just want what is best for her, and while I dont want to lose BOTH my gliders so soon, I know how important it is for them to be with their own kind and I dont want Stella to get lonely or sad.

What would you do?

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#1360914 - 01/03/14 04:35 PM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Again, I am so sorry for your loss. It is just as hard on the remaining glider to cope/adjust to their loss as it is on us. Even though some might not outwardly show signs of emotion, they do mourn for their mate.

I recently have gone through similar. My two babies had been together for almost 8 years. After Sam passed away in September, Choco did show signs of depression. I kept him with me as much as possible to help ease the pain. In our case though, Choco was not doing so well physically before Sam passed, so I knew that getting him a cage mate would have been more stressful on him than the loss of his little buddy. Sadly to say, I lost Choco on Christmas Day.

It helped some to wash everything that had Sams scent on it. This reduced his confusion on feeling stressed because he could smell Sam but not see him. Putting a small child safe stuffed toy in the sleeping pouch helped as well.

Finding a new home for Stella isn't a good idea, as this will compile her confusion and in turn will cause more stress on her. I would find a new friend for her (another female would most likely be better) as getting a male you would have to get him neutered. I also would consider getting her a younger mate, which might help her to feel useful (motherly) rather than trying to cope with one her age or older that has already developed patterns which might conflict with her personality.

These are just my personal opinions, I'm sure there are others who might also have some good suggestions.

I wish you all the luck, whatever your choice maybe I'm sure you will make the right one for Stella.

Sending you tons of hugs.

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#1360925 - 01/03/14 08:50 PM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
I second that rehoming her would cause her more stress.

As for when to get a cage mate for her, I would closely observe her to see how she reacts over the next few days. It does sound as if she and Indie were bonded together, so she will grieve for a bit. If she show signs of depression (lack of appetite, not being her normal self) then you will need to expedite getting a cage mate. If she appears to be acting normal, then you can take a bit more time to find the right cage mate for her.
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#1361085 - 01/06/14 08:50 AM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
yiyo Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 7560
Loc: Long Island, NY
Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear this hug2 hug2

Have you brought Stella to the vet to rule out anything that may have been contagious? You may want to just to be sure until you find the results on Indie.

Sending PM.
_________________________
Alyssa

"Moving on is a simple thing, what it leaves behind is hard."

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#1361108 - 01/06/14 10:20 AM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
IndieAndStella Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 573
Loc: New York
Thank you, Ladies - and i apologize for the late response. Ive been going through periods of being OK and then not wanting to think about anything glider related, because all I can see is my little Indie's face the last time she popped her head up from the hospital cage around 5am the morning she passed. I wish I hadnt just smiled and told her I loved her, and went back to sleep for an hour before getting up and getting her to the vet. Had I known it was going to be of no use, I would have just tried to hold her some more....

Linda - I am so sorry to hear of your babies, esp to hear that you lost Choco on Xmas :0(

Your advice is great; and probably the exact opposite of what I had been doing! It feels like my brain is mush and Im not thinking clearly. I put a blankie with Indie's scent on it in Stella's pouch so she could feel close to her while she slept. Ill make sure to remove it and replace everything with clean stuff when I get home from work. I didnt move any of the toys in the cage so as to not stress her out more and have been waiting to put the stuffed animal in the cage because i didnt want to scare her. But, I will remove it and give her a new set up. I am so happy you are suggesting a younger baby, as opposed to an older one! While Id love to rescue a glider in need, I really want one that is compatible with Stella and I had already steeled myself for a long, hard search for the "perfect" temperament. My only concern is that Stella is more on the...fluffy side. I dont want her to squash anyone!

As far as mourning - she doesnt APPEAR to be showing any signs. But I know she has to be sad, because I am. So far, her appetite seems to be right on par, shes taking treats and even playing in the cage during the night (i can tell by the lack of treats and opened easter egg/treasure chest etc in the cage). During play time, shes been exploring more and barely tries to escape the room (which had been her favorite thing to do when Indie was still here). OR, she will just sit with me on my shoulder while i read. I think she likes the heat vent i lean up against. I dont know if shes running around looking for Indie, or just so happy that shes getting all the treats? Usually Indie would beat her to them and Id have to get extra out for Stella.

Besides overgrooming and loss of appetite, what other signs should I look out for that she is depressed?

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#1361136 - 01/06/14 06:04 PM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
As long as she maintains everything within a normal range, she should do alright. It's still important though, to continue to monitor her. Sometimes the 'newness' of the new found freedom and space keeps them from going into a depression. I would say that if there were going to be any significant changes you would notice what's already been pointed out within the next few months.


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#1361170 - 01/07/14 08:13 AM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
IndieAndStella Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 573
Loc: New York
Thank you. I am checking on her constantly. I cleaned out the cage as best I could last night, and replaced most everything in it. Some of the toys I can not get the scent totally out of (cork bark pieces, for example) but I did remove all fleece and anything that can be cleaned.

Unfortunately, I didnt realize until I started removing everything that literally 99% of everything I have for gliders has been used by both gliders. I have a room for them, which is fairly large so I hung and set out everything I had when I first set up the room. Some hangy toys went untouched for weeks at a time, so there was no need to clean and rotate too much/ The glider room is nearly impossible to remove Indie's scent 100%. Will this continue to be a stressor for Stella - should I go back to using a tent in another room for a few weeks to let it dissipate?

Do you suggest I just toss these and start over? Esp for the things that will still hold scent even after washing?

She seemed more depressed this morning without anything Indie-scented in the cage. She just kinda sat there staring down over the edge of her ledge after she ate all her mealies. Ive seen her do this on occasion, but even when i scooped her up and put her in a pouch she popped her head back out and just stared at me. i wanted to bring her to work with me, but its literally 8 degrees outside right now and I was nervous about that.

last question - had this been a parasite or contagious infection, would i have seen signs in Stella already? i am wondering if i should get a fecal done, even though my vet suggested i wait for Indie's necropsy/test results before running anything on Stella to avoid stressing her further. Not sure I agree with this.

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#1361171 - 01/07/14 09:41 AM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
reisak Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 80
Loc: Columbus, OH
I'm far far from being glider knowledgeable but I'll use my common-sense from when I was a dog breeder. IMHO if it had been a parasite, depending on which one and if they were infected close together then I would say you should start to see signs in Stella already... but you have to carefully think of how he was acting a week to a few days prior to his passing. Animals have a wonderful way to live life to the fullest up to the day the pass away, which makes it hard for us human caretakers. So, on that note I would agree with your vet in waiting for his necropsy to come back before you stress Stella with possible unnecessary tests not to mention the extra cost if it wasn't needed.

I would suggest you keep a very close eye on her and if she shows any simular signs get her back to the vet ASAP.

:ghug:
_________________________
Reisa Kersting

Our lil' glider family...
:grey: Gunner
Sisters: :bb: Maggie May & :wfb: Layla (opp 7/29/13)
Parents: :wfb: Romeo & :bb: Juliet
Brother: :bb: Henry (oop 1/17/2014)

Our other lil' fur family. .
6 dogs & 2 cats (1 that thinks he's a dog, lol)

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#1361175 - 01/07/14 11:10 AM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
IndieAndStella Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 573
Loc: New York
Thank you for your input, Reisak! I appreciate you giving your honest opinion. I am inclined to think that about a parasite, as well, but wanted to see what others thought. Ive been thinking back to the days leading up to my Indie's passing, and literally can not think of anything they did differently or behaved abnormally. If anything, Indie was a tad more adventurous, checking out a part of the glider room that normally only Stella plays in.

One thing I have to admit though, is that I did not take them out to play the night before. It was New Years eve, and I wasnt feeling well myself (almost passed out on a train after less than 1 drink!) so I am wondering if she had been showing signs that I just didnt see 24 hours prior. However, the 1 hour leading up to her throwing up the first time, she was taking fruit from me and running in her wheel. It was only a few min before she starting throwing up that I noticed she didnt look happy. She had been up for a drink of water earlier in the day (which is pretty normal for her) and I stopped to talk to her and she just looked at me and went back to bed.

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#1361180 - 01/07/14 11:46 AM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
I've dealt with the loss of many gliders...all cases where one cagemate passed and the other was "left behind" to carry on. cry (some have even lost TWO cagemates...THAT'S a real heart-wrencher for me upset )

In general, it depends on the glider themselves as to how they grieve and how long they grieve. I've seen cases where gliders won't come out of their pouches to even eat, let alone do any other of their routine activities...and I've also seen cases where the lone glider acts like nothing at all is wrong. dunno I've never gone so far as to strip out the cage completely...IMO, I view that as trying to completely "erase" the existence of the one that has crossed over. The scents will fade with time, and new markings will overwrite the scents within the cage. (hopeful that this makes sense...)

When I have a serious grieving case going on (won't eat, won't come out, won't do ANYTHING but look at me with sad eyes :hbreak: ), I move QUICKLY to get a new cagemate introduced. And yes, I also throw the precautions of quarantine protocol out the door...but can I call myself LUCKY (in a very warped way shakehead ) that there's always been a single glider in another cage who either hasn't ever HAD a cagemate or has been alone for awhile and is ready to accept another soul.

But here's the bottom line: Playing the game of "shoulda/woulda/coulda" and beating yourself up for what you did or didn't do ends up the same, regardless of how you play the scenarios out. You are human, I am human, we're HUMAN...we make mistakes, we overlook things that almost had neon blinking signs that say 'DANGER, DANGER, DANGER!'...but we have to take a step back, acknowledge that it happened, learn from the experience, forgive ourselves, and move on. THAT, my dear, is not easy to do hug2 but...for the sake of the one left behind and all the loving fuzzfaces that are in your future, it has to be done. Karma will have a way of gently tapping you on the shoulder and saying, "hey lady...want a chance to make a difference to a glider who needs you?" You need to say through your tears and with a catch in your voice..."YES".
_________________________
Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry

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#1361185 - 01/07/14 12:28 PM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
yiyo Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 7560
Loc: Long Island, NY
I agree with minkasmom. I don't think it's necessary to move her to a tent or remove absolutely everything from the glider room. I can imagine it would be impossible to do, as I have a glider room myself.

I think moving to the tent may only confuse her more because it's another thing that's changing for her. I think keeping the routine the same is better for now.

And, if you're able to bring her to work with you, and that's something you would occasionally do as well, then I'd go ahead and do that to (once it warms up here!)
_________________________
Alyssa

"Moving on is a simple thing, what it leaves behind is hard."

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#1361199 - 01/07/14 02:50 PM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
IndieAndStella Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 573
Loc: New York
thank you, ladies! i didnt strip the glider room because i couldnt - youre right Yiyo. its impossible, short of throwing everything out and starting over! i jumped on here early this morning to see about purchasing some new toys (as opposed to making them this time around - i just dont have the energy!) so itll be a few days or so until I can provide her with new stuff, anyways. Minkasmom - thank you for your kind words. I know theres nothing I can do now, and the what ifs are driving me nuts! I keep trying to remind myself that Stella can feel my stress, too, and the better I handle it, the better off she will be.

i thought taking indie's scent out of her cage would be beneficial though, as i didnt want her to keep sniffing around for her. I reused 1 c-link with Indie's scent still on it accidentally , and when I put Stella back in the cage, she went right to the c link and started sniffing that corner. For the first time since Indie's passing she seemed really confused. I took it out immediately. She did seem intrigued with a few new items I found in the back of my closet that never got use, and I was happy about that. I am trying to put enough things in her cage to keep her occupied through the night without overcrowding her.

i will see how she is tonight/tomorrow on the saddness scale. If shes blah, I think ill put Indie's blankie back in with her and see how she reacts. part of me thinks that as long as she smells Indie she will think shes coming back at some point, and if the smell fades gradually, she will gradually get used to the idea of her not returning. on the other hand, now that ive removed everything, i dont want to get her hopes up by giving the Indie scent back....I guess ill have to see how she is when I get home and take it from there.

ive never brought them to my new job (started last june) but my employer wouldnt be opposed to it. they are aware of the situation I am going through at the moment. im more on the fence bc i dont want Stella to get used to coming with me every where and then go through another phase of depression when she cant.

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#1361266 - 01/08/14 09:57 AM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
yiyo Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 7560
Loc: Long Island, NY
If you need more toys, I can send you some grin
_________________________
Alyssa

"Moving on is a simple thing, what it leaves behind is hard."

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#1361282 - 01/08/14 11:43 AM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
IndieAndStella Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 573
Loc: New York
you are the best, Yiyo smile i think we will be ok for now, though.

she didnt want to come to work with me today. i dont know if its because she saw Indie leave with me and then never come back? She was fine in a pouch under all my layers until I got out the door and to the elevator and then she decided she wanted out. today is the day my building decided would be good for boiler cleaning and maintenance so there is no heat in my apt from 11 - 2pm (hopefully thats it). I left a space heater running when i left, but the regular heat was on at the time. So, if it shuts itself off, it wont be coming back on and my little Stella will freeze. I put extra fleece blankets in her pouch (way more than necessary) so i also hope that she isnt suffocating or getting too dehydrated with the extra warmth!

seriously, the stress is killing me. i cant catch a break!

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#1361292 - 01/08/14 01:22 PM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
yiyo Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 7560
Loc: Long Island, NY
I'm sure she'll be fine!
_________________________
Alyssa

"Moving on is a simple thing, what it leaves behind is hard."

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#1361542 - 01/11/14 01:06 PM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
Checking in to see how Stella is doing...and you as well. hug2
_________________________
Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry

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#1361625 - 01/12/14 06:03 PM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: LSardou]
Kesha Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/28/13
Posts: 193
Loc: Georgia
I'm sorry for both of you all's lost. That was great advise. Thanks for sharing how you dealt with your situation. That sounds like a great idea to get a younger female so the mourning glider will feel motherly and care for the younger glider.
I had a similar incident. I bought my glider from a lady that had a similar scenario. Her glider was lonely because he lost his mate about a month, after being together for 18 months. I had a female glider and she needed a mate because I had to remove her from her parents so her father wouldn't have incest with her. The grieving glider and my female glider bonded right away. They were both 18 months old and both had similar personalities friendly and quiet. After about 3 days of being in separate cages 12 inches apart, looking at and smelling each other, they bonded well and they have been inseparable ever since.

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#1361626 - 01/12/14 06:23 PM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
Kesha Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/28/13
Posts: 193
Loc: Georgia
I didn't throw away all of the things my "Q" shared with his old cage mate. I kept him in the cage he shared with his old cage mate. I washed the pouch they shared & the cage. When I first introduced the new female cage mate, I put her pouch in the cage and I put Q's pouch. He immediately jumped in his new cage mate's pouch for about an 30 minutes, then he took his new friend into his pouch. My Q adjusted well with his new friend. I suggest you getting a new cage mate for your grieving glider. Make sure you find a buddy that has similar temperament. Both of my gliders were easy going.

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#1361647 - 01/13/14 10:24 AM Re: lost her cage mate - now what? [Re: IndieAndStella]
IndieAndStella Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 573
Loc: New York
Hi guys!

Well, I think Stella has finally realized that Indie is not coming back. She hasn't been sniffing around the cage, and has settled into a new schedule without her buddy. I cleaned it out as best I could and replaced everything, but the glider room still has things with Indie's scent on it since its nearly impossible to get it all out unless I throw everything away.

The one thing I am curious about though is her new schedule. Prior, my gliders got up around 10pm, we'd play from 1030 - 1130 or later, and then Id go to bed. They were up briefly when I woke up at 6am, but was back in their pouch sleeping by the time I leave for work at 8am.

Now, Stella is sleeping til well past midnight. If I take her out prior, she will just sit on my shoulder or in my hand, or go into my sweatshirt to go back to sleep. She doesnt become active until 1am or after. Then, she seems totally normal - running around checking for treats, grooming me, running in her wheel, whatever. And shes staying up much later in the AM - was in the wheel running on Sat AM at 930, where she usually was fast asleep by then already.

Could it be as simple as Indie was disturbing her sleep schedule and dominating when they would get up and play and when it was time to go to bed? Or is this is sure sign of depression?

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