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#1382601 - 11/21/14 08:47 AM My joey is dying... what to do
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
I am so freaking out right now and I need advice. My joey Momo is 7 weeks OOP. Last night at about 1 am I noticed he was walking weird in the cage like he could barely move. When I picked him up he was completely lethargic. This came on quick out of no where. I had weighed him 3 nights ago and he was 48 grams. I haven't pulled the joeys out to play or get weight for a couple nights because I have a weird rash and not sure what it is yet and didn't want to maybe effect the gliders. Last night when I found out he was not well he was 43 so he lost 5 over a couple days. Then as I was holding him calling the vet he started having a seizure and then when it stopped he drooled on me a little. We rushed off to the vet hour and half away and he had 10 seizures on the way there. She gave him 10% calcium gluconate and 50% dextrose ?? She said she wanted to keep him in an incubator and see what she could do over night. We just got home because we were so tired on the way back that we had to sleep in a parking lot for a bit.

She called me just before I got home and said his condition had not improved. They got him to swallow a little and he puked some. She said at this point I could either let him go or start more aggresive help. She said she wants to give him a IO catheter in his bone??? She said he'd need to stay over the weekend and his chances look slim. This is going to cost a fortune we are already in pretty deep. I want to know if someone has gone through this and if they think the chances are worth it. I love this little guy but I don't want to spend a fortune just to prolong his suffering. She is waiting for me to call back to tell her to put him to sleep or start the treatment. This would break us but I'd do it if y'all think he has a decent chance. From my research I think it's bad. As soon as I picked him up I thought he was dying. The seizures were horrible.

She said it would be $100 for necropsy and 250-300 for hist?? She said the necropsy would not tell us if it was congenial birth defect or whatnot. I don't want to breed these guys anymore if this is a hereditary thing. Would having him put to sleep make the necropsy any less valuable?

Would it be better to send him to the glider initiative or something?

I am worried sick and I feel like I'm gunna throw up right now. Please tell me what I should do because I don't want to give up if there is decent chance but I don't want to make him suffer if there isn't. She said it looks bad and I thought for sure he was dying but do y'all think otherwise because of previous success? Please respond quickly she is waiting for my response and I don't know what to do.
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382602 - 11/21/14 08:54 AM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
I have to reply to her soon so please help me. I feel so horrible right now. I have been up all night and I am going to fall out soon but I have to respond to the vet first.


Edited by 6ftGlider (11/21/14 03:45 PM)
Edit Reason: Removing my phone #
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#1382603 - 11/21/14 09:36 AM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11945
Loc: Wisconsin
I am very sorry your going through this. As per our conversation on the phone here is the link to the necropsy information from the Sweet Spot: The SUGAR Group's Necropsy Options in case you need it.

Please keep us posted on the little ones progress, I am moving this to Health & Hygiene now.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Widget, Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1382617 - 11/21/14 10:54 AM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Putting him to sleep will not affect the results of a necropsy, should that be the way to go. Having your vet do the gross necropsy and preparations for the histo is a much better route than sending him off to someone else; time being of the essence with something this sensitive.

I'm hoping you don't have to go that route though. It would be great if the vet were able to determine what is wrong, and provide treatment.

As for putting the catheter in the bone, that is for an IV. Since gliders are so small, putting one in a vein isn't very likely to happen, so the other option isintraosseously (IO) in the proximal femur or tibia. This is good that your vet knows this information. wink

Good luck and please keep us posted!
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Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

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#1382637 - 11/21/14 04:00 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
Thank you for the info guys. I feel so bad right now. It's time to call the vet for an update and then decide where to go. Shelly, are you saying that I still can send him to the Sugar group for the histo after my vet does the necropsy and prep? I would prefer to save the money by doing it through the sugar group but not if I'll get back less info. I want to know as much as I can about what happened to this little guy. I hope it doesn't matter cause she's gunna tell me he's doing better. worried
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Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382641 - 11/21/14 05:13 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11945
Loc: Wisconsin
I would just send the whole body to the Sugar Group. Next day air it.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Widget, Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1382644 - 11/21/14 05:18 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
He has not improved or gotten worse as far as lethargy goes. She said he's twitched a little but not had any more seizures. We are doing the IO catheter overnight and then deciding where to go from there. My poor little Momo frown
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382647 - 11/21/14 05:22 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11945
Loc: Wisconsin
Thank you for the update! I know how hard it is to go through this.

Those little guys take a hold of our hearts so fiercely and they take a big chunk when they have to leave.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Widget, Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1382648 - 11/21/14 05:34 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: Feather]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
Yeah if he miraculously pulls through I'm probably keeping his little fuzzbutt. It was super hard on the way to the vet because I had my hand in the pouch with him and he was hugging on my finger real tight and having those seizures. I just hope I'm making the right choice and not prolonging his pain and draining our reserves for nothing. worried
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382651 - 11/21/14 06:10 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
It is always better to do the gross necropsy as soon after death as possible. By overnighting the body, it can (and does) begin to decompose. The longer it takes to begin the necropsy the more likely there will be damage that can alter the results. The only time I would overnight is if it was going directly to the lab, but even then I'd have my vet do the gross and preserve all of the tissues being sent off. That will ensure you the most accurate results.

If The SUGAR Group can do just a histo and save you money, then absolutely go through them. The information you get back should be the same. Just determine in advance how many tissues you want to have looked at, a standard necropsy I believe is 6 tissues. You may want your vet to harvest everything so the decision can be made after the fact. You would want to discuss this with your vet as well as Val with TSG.
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Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1382653 - 11/21/14 06:17 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: GliderNursery]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
The vet called about 20 minutes ago with some good news. When they got him out to do the io catheter he tried to jump out of her hand and started crabbing a little! She said she wants to continue with what they're doing now and not do the catheter unless they have to so they can avoid stress. Feeling hopeful.
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382655 - 11/21/14 06:18 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
:yes: Hoping all news is good news from here on out! hug2
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Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1382659 - 11/21/14 06:27 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: GliderNursery]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
Thanks. smile I feel less blue and more stressed now because I'm nervous. I was almost sure he was not going to make it and now there is hope which is great but also nerve racking. I got to go find something to do to de-stress a bit.

I have another question. He is 7 weeks OOP and not fully weaned yet, but he's going without momma now. I gave the vet the little bottle of wambaroo joey milk re-placer that came in my joey kit. If he makes it and comes back home will he start feeding from Lilo again or be weaned? Should I be ordering more milk re-placer to supplement him when he gets here?
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382661 - 11/21/14 06:39 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
When he comes home I'd set up a separate cage just in case. Mom may, or may not accept him back. If she doesn't, I wouldn't panic because at 7 weeks, he's already been eating from mom & dad's food for a while now. He'll be fine going on a regular diet.
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Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


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#1382664 - 11/21/14 07:07 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: GliderNursery]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
Okay thanks. My concern was because I know mom is still feeding Aang. I have seen both joeys eating food already, haven't witnessed a poop though.

Is there a such thing as partially rejected/ less favored joey? I've been tracking their weight daily up until the other day when this rash/reaction showed up and they both were always on the gain. Aang is always a couple grams heavier than Momo. Also Aang always looks perfectly groomed and fluffy and Momo has constant bed head. I was wondering if maybe mom (Lilo) was only partly caring for him. This is her(and our) first litter. When I found him last night she was completely ignoring him, even when I reached in to get him out. Normally she at least comes over and checks out my hand before giving her approval to take her babies. Then again she could have been just giving up on him because of whatever was/is wrong.

I might be allergic to eucalyptus cause that is the only thing new we can think of in our house and I'm pretty much a full on hermit so I don't come in contact with a lot of things. Is this maybe what started all this? I've had the euc branches in the cage for about a week and they love them. I even saw Momo nibbling on one a few days back. I know that it is supposed to be something they naturally chomp on, but the website I got them from had a disclaimer that said there is always a possibility of lack of exposure allergy like children and peanuts. I got my eucalyptus from here and it was two different species.
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382669 - 11/21/14 07:59 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11945
Loc: Wisconsin
It isn't necessary to give your gliders Euc. Seeing how you have a rash, I would say to quit giving the gliders the Euc.

I don't feel it has anything to do with the joeys problem, the fact that he was second on his mom's list might mean she sensed something.

It is hard to tell seeing he made it this far.

Please keep us posted and toss the Euc so you start feeling better.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Widget, Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1382670 - 11/21/14 08:06 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
Oh it went out right away when I got home this morning because I suspected it. I'll have an update tomorrow. Thanks again.
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382672 - 11/21/14 09:32 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
Terry Online   grin
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 4844
Loc: Maryland
Saying prayers and hoping for your little guy!
_________________________
Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
3 Sugies, (Ollie, Lulu, & Skadoosh)


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#1382682 - 11/22/14 03:02 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
The vet said he made good improvements overnight and that he looked "bright". smile She said he had a seizure and went right back to looking as "bright" as he was before the seizure. They then gave him another calcium shot. We decided for him to stay again because we wouldn't have shots to give him. I bet he is so stressed right now. frown Lilo (mom) has been barking all night.

At the same time my blue heeler had her first litter of pups last night with no complications. Thank goodness. She did great and all seems well with the pups feeding and stuff. It's been a stressful few days.

I want Momo to come home. Does the fact that he's no longer lethargic mean he should come home? Can I feed him something special to help with the seizures or something because I'm afraid of the stress level he's probably going through right now. I got a lot going on at the moment. Does anyone have a handy link about seizures?
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382683 - 11/22/14 04:40 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
mechnut450 Online   grin
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/02/14
Posts: 575
Loc: Delaware
Glad to hear doing better , I personally think that if he doing better Monday see about him coming home ( if there no more seizures, I know your looking at one heck of a vet bill now. and I hope it will all be for not later on.

Momo may become a added figure to your family since he had issues. I not trust anyone that new to gliders to take proper care. specially if they can't find the cause.
_________________________
Married to ringtail
Freya, Elda, Leeloo, Muffin, Sasha, Sammi ,Vino :grey:
Momo :plat:
Marshmallow :leu:
Sterling :cream:
Kahless :rtmo:


My opinion is not endorsed or reflected by my employer or others they are my personal thoughts. If you have issues with my post take it up with me!!!!

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#1382687 - 11/22/14 06:45 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11945
Loc: Wisconsin
Glad to hear the little one is bright and alert. That is a good thing.

What diet do you have all of your gliders on?
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Widget, Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1382691 - 11/22/14 06:55 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: mechnut450]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
Yeah I'm pretty sure this guy is staying with us. wink
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382692 - 11/22/14 06:56 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
I am on the TPG (Priscilla Price) diet.
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382696 - 11/22/14 08:03 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11945
Loc: Wisconsin
Here are a couple I found in the archives for you:

Low Blood Sugar/Seizure

signs of seizures??

Sugar Glider Seizures?
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Widget, Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1382757 - 11/24/14 12:43 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
Well Momo is finally coming home tonight with some meds. Not sure what it is but the vet is gunna go over everything with us when we get him. We are very excited and nervous.

Yesterday we drove down there and gave them the pouch that the family has been staying in so he could be more comfortable and it worked. We also took them more food for him. He's completely eating on his own now.

I also brought the pouch he was in back to put in my gliders' big cage and Lilo (mom) was hanging around it quite a bit. She stopped barking for him. We were considering having him neutered and keeping him with the trio. We still don't have a definite answer as to the underlying cause to the seizures. Aunt Nani has a peanut in pouch so I was thinking maybe she'd be the biggest objector. I don't know what to do. I can't just put him back in the big cage because they might object plus I need to monitor him and do meds for a bit at least. I have another large cage that is empty, but I was thinking I'd probably keep him in the little travel cage until everything is normal so he doesn't get hurt if he does have a seizure and falls. I don't want the poor little guy to be alone though.

My options are to try smell swapping with the colony and see if I can get him back in soon, or pull Aang in a few days and put him with Momo. They are 8 OOP weeks tomorrow. I was hoping to adopt Aang out to a good home to help buffer this hospital bill a little, so I'd rather put Momo back with my trio but I'm wondering how hard that might be since they are actively breeding. Unless it becomes very obvious that it was a one time deal, like maybe because of mom cutting him off or something, we won't be adopting out Momo.

I was thinking about it, and it might be a diet problem. With the TPG diet, the most important part is the vitamin/mineral/calcium powder that gets sprinkled on top of the staple. It also has bee pollen and acacia gum and stuff, but I think the calcium is the important part. It doesn't get mixed in. Momo is the slowest one to come out and get to the food so he might not have been getting any of the vitamins and calcium of the powder. Everyone licks the vitamin top part first when they come out for dinner.

I had that problem with Nani when I first got her and Lilo home. Nani woke up later than Lilo and was missing out on her share of the vitamin. She didn't look well and we took her to the vet and she was a little dehydrated but that's it from what he could tell. Well I started making 2 bowls and personally getting Nani up when Lilo got up and put her in front of one of the bowls and she soon picked up to looking just like Lilo and had more energy and stuff. Just brighter in general. Soon after she started getting up at the same time as Lilo. I have a hope that the problem stems from Momo being slow to get to the plate at the same time that Lilo is cutting them down off the milk. I am once again thinking I will try a different diet. I don't exactly care for the powder on top part of it.

I want to try everything I can to pinpoint the issue to hopefully rule out hereditary problem because I don't want to neuter dad but I will if I have to. Aang is beautiful and healthy looking. He did drop 1 gram for the first time though last night. He went from 50 to 49. This is the first time he had any decrease. I'll be keeping a close eye, but he looks very alert and full of pep.

Thank you for the links Feather. I'll be doing a lot more research on this matter but things have been hectic around here lately. Thanks everyone for your thoughts/prayers. smile I'll try to get a pic of the poor guy posted when we get him home.
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382761 - 11/24/14 04:19 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
Biscuit Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/12/11
Posts: 978
Loc: Dutchess County, NY
I hope Momo is doing well! mlove Any updates on his status?
_________________________

~ Laurie ~
Mother to

:wfb: Topanga, :grey: Biscuit, Toby, :leu: Thor & :plat: Akiah [Kiah]


www.lauriessugglettes.weebly.com

gangel My Lost Loves, Rascal, March 30, 2012, Bugaboo, Sept 7, 2012 & Momma, Feb 27, 2013



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#1382763 - 11/24/14 04:43 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
6ftGlider Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 132
Loc: BFE, Texas
No it'll be awhile. My wife is on her way to get him and then they have about a 2 hour drive home. I wish I could go with but her work is already 30 min in the right direction so picking me up first would add an hour to the trip. frown So I'm wondering... will he need a night or two like a new glider or will he remember home? He definitely knew my hands when we went up there yesterday. Just worried about the poor guy's stress. I know this has been scarier for him than us. The avian/exotic section of the hospital is probably a scary place full of smells and sounds for a little glider. I just hope like heck that it just gets better from here and he (or we) don't have to go through this again.
_________________________
Ogre
OgresFuzzleButts

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#1382766 - 11/24/14 05:22 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
Kris_N_Zoe Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1816
Loc: Longview, Texas
Keep praying and give him all the love you can. heart

Love heals. mlove
_________________________
Pibble pup Jenson jump Glide free: Smoke (6/16/15) and Zoey (10/2/15) :rbridge:

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#1382771 - 11/24/14 05:45 PM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
He should remember home. wink
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1382784 - 11/25/14 09:48 AM Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11945
Loc: Wisconsin
He hasn't been away from his colony long. You can try introductions in the bathtub and see how everyone treats him. If they all crawl in the pouch together and start grooming I would say you have a great chance that they will accept him back.

He hasn't been away from them very long.

It is possible that low calcium cause the seizures, it would be interesting to know what they have put him on for meds.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Widget, Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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it never fails does it
by mechnut450
1 second ago
'injury' at bald spot?
by josefine
Yesterday at 07:19 PM
Hubby said yes!
by Ladymagyver
Yesterday at 10:02 AM
TheWildRose311
by Feather
08/21/17 08:37 PM
Joeys and parents long term?
by Pigbat
08/21/17 01:56 PM
Double Critter Nation bedding ?
by Kp3690
08/21/17 11:35 AM
Camille
by Feather
08/19/17 10:14 PM
"Homemade" yogie treats
by sugarfluff
08/19/17 05:44 PM
Joey or Full grown
by kinn2388
08/16/17 09:43 AM
How could I help this glider?
by MomoShiva
08/15/17 05:21 PM
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