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#1383774 - 12/05/14 10:55 PM Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations
TiPu Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 51
Loc: NY
Hello everyone,

These past few months have been difficult for Zoey to say the least. Back in the summer, she had a relapse episode where she lost control of her front legs and had general difficulty moving around effectively. She unfortunately did not fully recover as much as she did from the bout last year. About 3 or so weeks ago, she was badly attacked by one of my other gliders (I think Bitey...aka Amelia), possibly due to her weakened state and kinda being on the lowest of the totem pole in the group of three frown. She ended up with a rather large open laceration on her back behind her shoulder that became infected after my vet's initial cleaning and care. She became very weak and was, for the most part, stuck laying on her side unable to clean herself or feed herself. She lost over half her body weight in the summer, and another 15 grams after her attack. After a few weeks on medication, hand feeding her with a syringe and keeping her in a separate hospital cage, she made astounding progress to where she was able to stand on her legs again and scoot around and gained 10 grams back. Unfortunately, something happened with her front hands to where she wasn't able to open her hands too well, and this in turn hid some serious damage. Sometime during healing from this injury, one of her fingers sustained an injury and died/fell off and exposed bone, or this was part of the attack. Being severely weakened by the attack injury, we had to put off the surgery for a week to allow her to heal and gain some more weight again. After her surgery, I found out 4 toes had to be amputated, two on each hand. The vet had a suspicion that her last relapse may have affected her sensations in her hands and she may have been biting at them, or her compensating movements by scooting on the side of her hands may have led to the necrosis. It's really impossible to tell at this point frown.

Zoey is recovering in her hospital cage that she has been living in for the past month now. Her wound on her shoulder is nearly healed, but now we have to work with the recovery of her front hands. I ask if anyone else has worked with toe amputations before on their suggies? I also have a feeling she may not be able to return to the main cage with her other cage mates. It is a possibility she may never be able to climb again, but we need to see how she progresses over the new few weeks. If I do have to keep her separate for the rest of her life, are there recommendations to help her live separately, but still be able to interact with the other girls so she does not suffer from social withdrawl from them? I have been hand feeding her for nearly a month at this point every night, and do my best to spend extra time with her. If there are other recommendations to make her as comfortable as possible in her current cage, future cages, I would appreciate any tips smile. If this thread needs to be moved to Special Needs, I am ok with that. I will likely be posting there in the future with regular updates on Zoey.

I've attached a picture of her starting to eat some more food and trying to manage with her altered hands. You can see the remainder of the scab from her injury. It looks bald from the vet shaving the area a few weeks back to clean the area. You can see the two toes on her right hand that were amputated. I am thankful she still has her thumbs on both hands. The force is strong in this one smile


^Zoey says "These drugs man...they got me on some good stuff"
She's a little racked out from the anesthesia and the pain med injection here


Edited by TiPu (12/05/14 11:04 PM)
_________________________
The artsy engineer with a pouch full of cuteness

:bb: Amelia :grey: Aurora

:rbridge: Zoey

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#1383781 - 12/06/14 08:28 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12061
Loc: Wisconsin
Oh My! I can just imagine the stress levels in your house.

I would say she needs to live alone with supervised playtime with the others.

They probably tried to drive her from the pouch because in the wild they don't want sick gliders in the colony, it draws predators to them.

You can outfit her cage with more hammocks and bridge do that she has places to sit in different areas of her cage. I would keep her in a low cage until you see how much mobility she is going to get back.

As far as missing toes she should be able to adapt to not having them, I have sound that some of the rescues that have come through here are missing a finger or two.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1383785 - 12/06/14 09:15 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
SWSuggieLover Offline
New Member

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Little Zoey is such a fighter! I don't have any advice, I just wanted to say I'll be thinking of you. She's lucky to have such a caring human dedicated to her health and happiness. Wishing the best for you both!

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#1383796 - 12/06/14 11:19 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: SWSuggieLover]
Terry Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 4966
Loc: Maryland
I'll be adding precious Zoey to my prayers, wishing her recovery and a long happy life with you.
_________________________
Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
2 Sugies, (Ollie & Skadoosh)
R.I.P. Lulu (2/28/12-10/13/17)

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#1383870 - 12/06/14 09:37 PM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
Kris_N_Zoe Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1816
Loc: Longview, Texas
Look at that pretty face! I'll be praying for her healing as I too have a pretty glider named Zoey to love.
Kimberley gave great advice, I can't think of anything to add, but I'll definitely keep your Zoey in my prayers. heart
_________________________
Pibble pup Jenson jump Glide free: Smoke (6/16/15) and Zoey (10/2/15) :rbridge:

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#1383876 - 12/06/14 11:34 PM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
TiPu Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 51
Loc: NY
Thanks everyone for the kind thoughts mlove mlove

So it has been 24 hours since Zoey's surgery. I'm just going to let the video do the talking....



I don't know much about the drugs she's on...but I want some!! :elaugh:

I'm going to need a bigger cage.... :willy:


Edited by TiPu (12/06/14 11:39 PM)
_________________________
The artsy engineer with a pouch full of cuteness

:bb: Amelia :grey: Aurora

:rbridge: Zoey

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#1383887 - 12/07/14 11:20 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12061
Loc: Wisconsin
She sure is a determined little fart!
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1383889 - 12/07/14 12:38 PM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
TiPu Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 51
Loc: NY
OMG she really is. Despite all the problems and ups and downs she has been through, she is perhaps the most stubborn little fart I have ever encountered. This is the most she's moved around and tried to climb since her attack 3 or so weeks ago.

I opened up the cage to give her some food for the evening and she made an effort to jump out onto me. It was a very wobbly jump, but she landed on my lap at least smile. I think she's getting a little stir crazy from being in the smaller hospital cage for so long at this point. When I get out of work today I am going on a mission to try to find a low profile cage that I may be able to transfer her to. It looks like she'll need the space again within another week based on how antsy she is to move!

Kimberly, I know you mentioned a low profile cage in your other post. Do you have any recommendations? It seems horizontal bars are going to be her best option to move around. Zoey has her thumb, index, and middle finger on her left hand, and her thumb, index, and pinkie finger on her right. Her biggest struggle last night was trying to figure out how to grab without using the outside of her hands, especially the left hand.

I did build the PVC cage from the plans that had been floating around the forum here for a little bit. But that is 5' x 5' x 2', waaay too big for a single glider. Perhaps I can look into building a smaller version that will work better for her...

If anyone has any recommendations for hammock/bridge/platform designs that will work, please let me know! I have been making my own pouches and hammocks, so any design inspirations would be wonderful smile.

I'll continue posting some updates here and there, especially after she has her one week checkup next week!

Much love! mlove
_________________________
The artsy engineer with a pouch full of cuteness

:bb: Amelia :grey: Aurora

:rbridge: Zoey

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#1383890 - 12/07/14 01:26 PM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
awitt Offline
In Pouch

Registered: 12/03/14
Posts: 26
Loc: OK
What a survivor! I've never seen anything (animal or otherwise) with such will to get better so quickly after a major surgery!

Keeping Zoey in my prayers, please keep us updated!
_________________________
Momma of Tink, :grey: Rocky, :grey: Arwen, :grey: and Aragorn :grey: !!!


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#1383892 - 12/07/14 01:53 PM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12061
Loc: Wisconsin
Something like this Bali Bungalow without the divider. It is 30"W x 18"D x 18"H.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1383894 - 12/07/14 01:59 PM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
TiPu Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 51
Loc: NY
Thank you awitt!

Trust me, my bf and I were just watching her in awe and confusion last night. I get a paper cut and I feel like I'm incapacitated for a week lol.

Her neuro problems may actually be to her advantage/disadvantage. My vet and I were thinking her neuro problems may lead to her being unable to really feel any, or very little pain. This may explain why she was still going on alright with the damage on her hands (and may have led to the necrosis...) and especially last night with her all stitched up and such. Even with the huge gash in her shoulder that she had, she still flopped around as if nothing much was going on (when she was well enough).

My little girl certainly is an anomaly here. But it really shows the durability and stamina of these little creatures!

And I thought I was stubborn o.O
_________________________
The artsy engineer with a pouch full of cuteness

:bb: Amelia :grey: Aurora

:rbridge: Zoey

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#1383905 - 12/07/14 11:05 PM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
TiPu Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 51
Loc: NY
Quick update 48 hours later. I was taking the time to clean Zoey's hospital cage and needed to distract her as I pulled the dirty fleece stuff and changed the paper in the tray. I handed her a pea, and in her excitement while chomping on it, she ended up flopped on her back contently squeaking and chewing away. I just couldn't pass up this funny pic smile

< Totally Nailed it wink

She's trying to climb all over and actually scooted up my arm and perched on my shoulder for a moment. She's still adjusting to her hands, but looks like she's going to be ok smile


Edited by TiPu (12/07/14 11:09 PM)
_________________________
The artsy engineer with a pouch full of cuteness

:bb: Amelia :grey: Aurora

:rbridge: Zoey

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#1383906 - 12/07/14 11:23 PM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
awitt Offline
In Pouch

Registered: 12/03/14
Posts: 26
Loc: OK
I'm so glad to see that!

This picture is so adorable and I'm glad to see her so happy! I hope things continue to look up!
_________________________
Momma of Tink, :grey: Rocky, :grey: Arwen, :grey: and Aragorn :grey: !!!


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#1383910 - 12/08/14 05:29 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: awitt]
Terry Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 4966
Loc: Maryland
I'm happy to hear that too, and love that pic! I love that little Zoey of yours, keeping her recovery in my prayers.
_________________________
Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
2 Sugies, (Ollie & Skadoosh)
R.I.P. Lulu (2/28/12-10/13/17)

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#1383914 - 12/08/14 07:13 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
yiyo Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 7560
Loc: Long Island, NY
Poor little thing. Glad to see she's on the mend though. Best wishes for a speedy recovery for her hug2 hug2
_________________________
Alyssa

"Moving on is a simple thing, what it leaves behind is hard."

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#1383924 - 12/08/14 09:41 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
Kris_N_Zoe Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1816
Loc: Longview, Texas
Wow, She's looking great! All those prayers must be doing the trick. smile

You go little one! clap
_________________________
Pibble pup Jenson jump Glide free: Smoke (6/16/15) and Zoey (10/2/15) :rbridge:

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#1383993 - 12/09/14 11:09 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12061
Loc: Wisconsin
Great News!
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1384672 - 12/17/14 11:03 PM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
TiPu Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 51
Loc: NY
Hey everyone,

I wanted to add an update after nearly two weeks since her surgery. Zoey is managing pretty well and is continuing to learn how to manage with her altered hands. During her checkup last Friday, the vet was happy with her progress, and the skin around the wounds on her fingers have mended wonderfully. The scab that was on her back has fallen off at this point and has revealed nice healthy skin underneath....now she just has to grow the fur back smile. Due to her wibbly wobbly nature, the vet would like to check up on her every 3 or so months to keep track of any spreading of her neuro problems and to ensure her hands remain healthy. I'll post a pic in a little bit. Thank you so much for your thoughts everyone, it really means a lot for the both of us smile mlove
_________________________
The artsy engineer with a pouch full of cuteness

:bb: Amelia :grey: Aurora

:rbridge: Zoey

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#1384673 - 12/18/14 04:13 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
Terry Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 4966
Loc: Maryland
I'm really glad to hear the progress she has made. Thanks for updating.
_________________________
Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
2 Sugies, (Ollie & Skadoosh)
R.I.P. Lulu (2/28/12-10/13/17)

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#1384675 - 12/18/14 07:08 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
yiyo Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 7560
Loc: Long Island, NY
Glad to hear she's doing well smile
_________________________
Alyssa

"Moving on is a simple thing, what it leaves behind is hard."

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#1384734 - 12/19/14 09:02 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12061
Loc: Wisconsin
:thumb2:
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1384823 - 12/21/14 08:19 AM Re: Zoey the neuro troubled suggie and toe amputations [Re: TiPu]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
:yes: That's great news!
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


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#1387302 - 03/01/15 08:29 PM Zoey Adventure Continues - Need Exercise!
TiPu Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 51
Loc: NY
Hey Everyone!

I just wanted to offer an update on Zoey now that it has been a few months since her toe amputation surgery. She has been living in a separate cage from my other two girls as she continues to rehab from her last neuro episode and her surgery that removed 4 toes. She has not fully gained back mobility and is still very wobbly. I have been working on getting her to gain back all the weight she lost from the attack and such, and have been having some decent success. She has a little belly again smile. However, the musculature around her front arms is rather slim still. I can feel her shoulders sticking out a bit, even though shes gained 15 or so grams in weight back. I feel she has lost a bit of muscle mass from being unable to walk around normally on all fours and being able to climb like she used to 6 or so months ago. She can crawl in and out of her pouch for food just fine, but cannot climb to any of the little hammocks I've put around the cage. She's still in a smaller cage because of her limited mobility.

I take her out regularly to let her "exercise" where she kinda hobbles around on me and can scoot up my arm. I have had to sit on a bed for whenever she falls over (a lot) to offer a soft spot to land on. She can't grab still and seems to have limited ability to open her hands frown. I can't say if this is due to the loss of muscle or from the damage she sustained from the attack/surgery. May any one have any ideas to promote muscle growth or give her an exercise that will help work her front arms? I've been giving her little body massages she seems to enjoy quite a bit! I'll just rub her hands and body for 30 minutes or so a night while she chills on my lap. It's become something shes grown to enjoy smile.

The only thing I can really think of is getting her a small wheel and putting her in it and gently forcing her to walk around it for a little while. She's heavily reliant on her hind legs and pretty much sits on her hind legs at all times when shes in a resting position. It appears this is how she's learned to compensate with the limited ability of her front legs. She is due for the 3 month checkup this month. Any recommendations are of course welcome!!
_________________________
The artsy engineer with a pouch full of cuteness

:bb: Amelia :grey: Aurora

:rbridge: Zoey

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#1387303 - 03/01/15 09:11 PM Re: Zoey Adventure Continues - Need Exercise! [Re: TiPu]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12061
Loc: Wisconsin
I think you should just keep encouraging her to walk around. Perhaps use a favorite treat to entice her to climb around.

She may not regain the use she once had, but gliders adapt.

The massages are good, do you flex her arms while your doing it?
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1387304 - 03/01/15 09:32 PM Re: Zoey Adventure Continues - Need Exercise! [Re: TiPu]
TiPu Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 51
Loc: NY
Hey Feather,

I try to encourage her to move her arms as much as she'll tolerate me. If I try to move her arms/hands too much, she gets a little antsy and nippy...like a lot of other animals do. It doesn't seem to cause her pain as she doesn't pull away or make any notable noises in pain. She just seems to get tired of it after 30 min or so. I have been trying to encourage her to open her hands more. I have managed to get a pinkie finger to hook onto my hand finally. I have a feeling she's been made a bit uncomfortable with her hands after having 4 toes amputated. She was doing pretty well for a little while, but I think the drugs we had her on post surgery wore off after their recommended dosage time passed. There was an opiate shot she was given for pain that had her jumping all over the place. Perhaps she needs a little pick me up like some of us do wink.

I have made a little game of "chase the mealworm" and she has no problem diving at them...even if it means she rolls off my leg or falls over. She loooooves chase the mealworm lolol :-P

One thing in particular she has gotten much better at since her injuries was grooming herself again. For a while she looked like a wet rat, and she only recently started to be able to clean her back again. She cleans her head with her front hands as per normal, and seems to open them to lick her palms....but I just can't seem to get her comfortable to use her hands to walk. When she tries to grab, she tries to pinch whatever between her wrists. She has adapted almost walking on her hind legs like a person, but is rather unsteady because its so unnatural. I worry about i affecting the integrity of her back :-\.

She tries so hard though smile
_________________________
The artsy engineer with a pouch full of cuteness

:bb: Amelia :grey: Aurora

:rbridge: Zoey

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#1387307 - 03/01/15 11:43 PM Re: Zoey Adventure Continues - Need Exercise! [Re: TiPu]
Terry Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 4966
Loc: Maryland
I'm so glad to hear she's recovering nicely though it sounds more work ahead of her, what a real trooper she is! Thanks for the update, sounds like you're doing the right things. You can always ask the Dr. also about what you can do additionally, but sounds like it may just be about it taking time.
_________________________
Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
2 Sugies, (Ollie & Skadoosh)
R.I.P. Lulu (2/28/12-10/13/17)

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#1387377 - 03/03/15 01:39 PM Re: Zoey Adventure Continues - Need Exercise! [Re: TiPu]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12061
Loc: Wisconsin
Give her time, it does sound like she is making some forward progress. It may be that you don't see it because you see her every day.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1387390 - 03/03/15 05:54 PM Re: Zoey Adventure Continues - Need Exercise! [Re: TiPu]
TiPu Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 51
Loc: NY
Thanks for the kind words guys! She has made remarkable progress over the past few months by all means considering I was hand feeding her at the end of december. Sometimes it's hard having to watch and do what I can from the sidelines. Mommy instincts wants her better now! smile

I'll continue to update when I can. It's a blessing for every morning I see her smile
_________________________
The artsy engineer with a pouch full of cuteness

:bb: Amelia :grey: Aurora

:rbridge: Zoey

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#1387414 - 03/04/15 12:40 PM Re: Zoey Adventure Continues - Need Exercise! [Re: TiPu]
yiyo Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 7560
Loc: Long Island, NY
Thanks for the update!
_________________________
Alyssa

"Moving on is a simple thing, what it leaves behind is hard."

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