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#1386085 - 01/26/15 01:51 PM Klubertanz cagging takes another life.
kittybaran Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/29/08
Posts: 202
Loc: arizona
Klubertanz has taken the life of yet another one of my gliders.
Tamm was euthanised today because of billiary andeno carcinoma. He is the 11th glider that Klubertanz has murdered.
I saw a post from last year or something about Klubertanz and toxic cages when I was posting about Artie and his penis problem. I've posted extensivley about this cancer in the past that was due to Klubertanz, yet people still buy from Klubertanz?????????? I know its Klubertanz's PVC, my original exoticdose vet, Dr. Kevin Wright (deceased) was certain. My current exotic vet agrees. Klubertanz has killed 11 and 6 more that were exposed are still living and at risk. I thought I had got them out in time to avoid the effect of the toxic exposure, but Clyde and now Tamm have shown me that I still have to be on the look out. They didn't develop the cancer right away like the others, there immune systems handled it better so there is also a delayed reaction. I want to sue THEM, but I cant afford the court costs. I have a lab in texas that will test the cagging and I have a good idea what the chemical is, but why bother when I cant afford to sue these thoughtless murders RIP my sweet Tamm.

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#1386098 - 01/26/15 08:20 PM Re: Klubertanz cagging takes another life. [Re: kittybaran]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
I'm sorry for your loss. hug2

It's very sad that something changed in that wire to cause such issues in sugar gliders. Unfortunately, they still sell the wire as it reportedly hasn't caused issues in other animals. I also know there are pet stores that carry the cages that only recently stopped recommending them for sugar gliders (thanks to Feather!).

I would be curious to know what you feel the chemical is that has caused the issue...and it would help even if you can't sue them. There has been some pretty extensive testing done on the wire at it was inconclusive; so if you have some info that may shed some light on the situation, it may be of great help to any that become exposed in the future. It won't bring back those you lost, but if you can assist in saving the next one, it would be worth it.
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

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#1386105 - 01/26/15 08:54 PM Re: Klubertanz cagging takes another life. [Re: GliderNursery]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3058
Loc: u.s.a.
who then has safe cages is it possible all wire coated cages can cause issues due to the bpa like they talk about in all plastics?

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#1386110 - 01/27/15 12:25 AM Re: Klubertanz cagging takes another life. [Re: kittybaran]
Feather Online   gc/lgc
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11945
Loc: Wisconsin
I have gone to all HQ Flight cages. I will no longer make my own with coated wire.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Widget, Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#1386113 - 01/27/15 08:49 AM Re: Klubertanz cagging takes another life. [Re: Feather]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
I would be curious to know what you feel the chemical is that has caused the issue...and it would help even if you can't sue them. There has been some pretty extensive testing done on the wire at it was inconclusive; so if you have some info that may shed some light on the situation, it may be of great help to any that become exposed in the future. It won't bring back those you lost, but if you can assist in saving the next one, it would be worth it.


:agreed:

I am so sorry for your loss.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1386114 - 01/27/15 09:35 AM Re: Klubertanz cagging takes another life. [Re: kittybaran]
kittybaran Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/29/08
Posts: 202
Loc: arizona
My cages are stainless steele. A thru Z caging in Tucson AZ has the appropriate sized squares for glider caging. I paid under $300 a few years ago for a 4x3x2. Ft cages with 2the shelves and 2 doors with latches and the c clips or whatever they are called to put it together. They can assemble it as well. I opted to do it myself because I made 6 cages and it fit into my truck.

The chemical that I think is most likely, and I dont remeber the offical name, it is a low grade phalate. PVC is rated. The highest grade and the most expensive grade is deemed "safe" and the lower ones are known to cause health issues such as cancers and liver cancer would be a high probability since the liver filters toxins from the body, also what is common are neurological disorders. These lower grade are cheaper. The University lab inTexas would be a good place to test because they have experiance with PVC (the exact same looking wire with a lower grade phalate is used for lobster traps.) If and they charge $30 a chemical test. Most people who have tested their wire due to disease thinks about lead and other metals and its not the metal..........it's the PVC.

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#1386119 - 01/27/15 10:53 AM Re: Klubertanz cagging takes another life. [Re: kittybaran]
Terry Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 4839
Loc: Maryland
I'm so sorry to hear of your loss.
_________________________
Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
3 Sugies, (Ollie, Lulu, & Skadoosh)


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#1386146 - 01/27/15 05:46 PM Re: Klubertanz cagging takes another life. [Re: the gliders angel]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: the gliders angel
who then has safe cages is it possible all wire coated cages can cause issues due to the bpa like they talk about in all plastics?


The cages you recently had made for you was made out of the safe PVC wire. The wire manufactured by Riverdale, sold by Klubertanz, is the wire that has been identified as having the issues. The wire used in the cages you got was manufactured by C.E. Shepard and is the safe wire. So, just in case you were worried, don't be. wink
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#1386163 - 01/27/15 08:48 PM Re: Klubertanz cagging takes another life. [Re: GliderNursery]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
The chemical that I think is most likely, and I dont remeber the offical name, it is a low grade phalate. PVC is rated. The highest grade and the most expensive grade is deemed "safe" and the lower ones are known to cause health issues such as cancers and liver cancer would be a high probability since the liver filters toxins from the body, also what is common are neurological disorders. These lower grade are cheaper. The University lab inTexas would be a good place to test because they have experiance with PVC (the exact same looking wire with a lower grade phalate is used for lobster traps.) If and they charge $30 a chemical test. Most people who have tested their wire due to disease thinks about lead and other metals and its not the metal..........it's the PVC.


ALL items of the cage, including the PVC was tested when all that happened. Literally thousands of dollars were spent on different types of chemicals, sprays, molds etc.... to see if anything in particular could be found. The biggest answer that was received was, unless you know exactly what chemical to test for, it may never be found.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1386171 - 01/28/15 11:15 AM Re: Klubertanz cagging takes another life. [Re: kittybaran]
kittybaran Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/29/08
Posts: 202
Loc: arizona
Yes, its $30 a chemical to test. Thats why I began researching how PVC is molded to coat objects. Too many people are narsiccists and 1 out of 5 have some degree of socialpathology. Put money with such person and they are likely to cheat when they think they can get away with it in order to benefit themselves, irrelevant is any other person or animal. So the occurance of any incidence of toxic cages would be inconsistent so as not to raise enough alarm that would result in their personal harm. If a large number occured at one time then one might suspect a tragic but mere error on behalf of a company or the company themselves were a victim of a deception and a crime. But when I talked to Klubertanz they did not defend themselves beyond a speech about we sell quality material, they had no interest in investigating nor did the offer any condolences or apology for the death of my animals and the emptying of my bank account. THEY DIDNT CARE! If they investigated they might find the truth and be held accountable. A good company would, fore they would care and make right the wrong done to the customers. Klubertanz dosent care.......so they don't.

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