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#1387960 - 03/20/15 03:55 PM What is a sturdy screening?!
sassafras Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 99
Loc: us
Building my own cage when my taxes come in I am using pine wood and will be sealing it and sanding it properly! It will also be on wheels that can lock so I can easily bring it outside to clean it weekly when it warms up and I intend to wipe it down every other day if not daily but I am having a hard time finding something for the screening I do not want to use the plastic looking pet mesh I believe its called it just looks very easy to rip/break
I want to be able to hang things from it I have been looking into vinyl coated shelving or wire coated fencing does anyone have experience with either of these? or something other than the rubberier looking mesh you would see at home depot or a construction site?
I have pm'd a few people I have seen that made cages like I am planning to but no one has responded:/
I am planning on covering as much of the wood on the inside as possible with the screening and will be using laminate flooring for the tray the top will also be a screening as well as the floor they will be on
I just want to make sure what I get will be sturdy and safe for them! thank you so much to anyone who can give me any info very eager to start
oh! also what is a good way to attach the wire/mesh to the frame? I know not to use glue I just have no idea what I can use


Edited by sassafras (03/20/15 04:00 PM)

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#1387961 - 03/20/15 04:04 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
Kris_N_Zoe Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1816
Loc: Longview, Texas
I wouldn't make the frame out of wood... It tends to soak up urine and smell bad relatively quick. PVC is the preferred material for the frame. The plastic mesh is stronger than it looks, but when I built my cage we used vinyl coated wire mesh. Be prepared... you're going to need a crapload of zipties.... I think I used... Like 400-500... Some use as many as 1200!!!

This is my cage and it measures roughly 48"T X 32"W X 22"D and it sits(ziptied) on a 24" tall table It's pretty big. All the materials probably cost about $120. Not bad for the size, most of the cost was the wire mesh at $15/roll. I think I used 6 rolls to cover the cage.


Attachments
new cage-front view.jpg (12 downloads)
Description: My cage.


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#1387962 - 03/20/15 04:08 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
Kris_N_Zoe Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1816
Loc: Longview, Texas
Also, A little note, that's an old picture from when I first built it. It has a lot more toys and a safe wheel in there now. I have a more recent picture on facebook that I might post later.
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#1387963 - 03/20/15 04:18 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
sassafras Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 99
Loc: us
I would make it out of pvc I just cant stand the way it looks lol There are some beautiful cages made out of it but there just not for us. We would like something that goes with our home we worked so hard to put together and as long as the coating and sanding makes it safe we don't mind about the maintenance I work from home so I could do it 3 times a day if I wanted to lol Is the vinyl coated wire mesh safe for gliders if licked or chewed? Mine don't currently chew on their cage or their toys but I would much rather be safer then sorry do you know of any ideas to connect the wire to a frame other than zip ties?
Thanks!

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#1387964 - 03/20/15 04:30 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
Kris_N_Zoe Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1816
Loc: Longview, Texas
My guys haven't suffered any ill effects from it.

I suppose heavy duty staples ONLY ON THE OUTSIDE would probably be okay... Unless they get out and decide to try chewing on them. I'm not sure. Other than zipties, I don't know.
_________________________
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#1387965 - 03/20/15 04:35 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
Ladymagyver Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/07/14
Posts: 2229
Loc: SW Missouri
Somewhere you can buy furniture grade pvc it's black.
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#1387966 - 03/20/15 05:33 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
sassafras Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 99
Loc: us
do you know of any sites or anything for wooden ones? I have tried youtube google and can't get much of anything Im thinking if I put it on the outside I could cover it with a plastic or vinyl shelf all the way around

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#1387967 - 03/20/15 06:12 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
Ladymagyver Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/07/14
Posts: 2229
Loc: SW Missouri
I'm out of ideas. All I can tell you is my girls are non chewers so I thought till I put a wooden perch in their cage. Next thing I know Dot had a huge sliver off and was trying to chew up the sliver. Pine and cedar are toxic. Other woods are toxic too. They are sap eating animals. In order to find sap they chew through branches. You would have to find a safe wood and expect it to be chewed on. If I built a cage out of wood, a safe wood, I would have to expect them to chew on it. That's a lot of money and time. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Maybe Sugar gliders aren't a good choice for a wood cage.
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#1387968 - 03/20/15 06:48 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: Ladymagyver]
Terry Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 5070
Loc: Maryland
I understand that wood looks much nicer than other cages, but it is highly discouraged to use it. Not only there are several woods that are either toxic or can cause dermal irritations. Note: Toxic and Safe Wood and the other reason is the absorption of urine that is a concern.

I have seen home made cages made from coated pantry shelving, I think they look nice, but I haven't really seen a lot of information on them specifically.

Unfortunately doing a google search in images all I could find was a rat cage, but the size could be adjusted for sugar gliders, also you would need to use the pantry shelving I believe to fall within the 1/2" gap between bars. Cage made from shelving for rats

Even with daily cleaning, I don't know that it would help with odor if using wood. Excessive cleaning will cause "over marking" in which the gliders will go around trying to "re-mark" their stuff.
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#1387981 - 03/20/15 10:13 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
sassafras Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 99
Loc: us
I had read a lot of comments that pine is the safest IF done properly I might find away to cover the wood on the inside so they can not get to the wood and just put the wire/mesh over that and ugg I know google was not to helpful with this topic lol the only comments I have seen with having an Oder problem are people that had not sanded & sealed the wood other than that it seems do-able but none of the people have pm'd me back so I am a bit lost lol I have also asked a couple of breeders threw fb and they all suggested pine only if you are planning on sanding and sealing I also have a tall dresser that could be used as a play area if sanded, sealed, and covered with wire/mesh but I am not going to touch it until I know what kind of wood it is maybe I could do a trial run and have them play in that and if it works I could build a cage


Edited by sassafras (03/20/15 10:16 PM)

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#1387989 - 03/21/15 01:22 AM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
The biggest reason most homemade cages are made with the plastic hardware mesh (1/2 inch square openings) is that it is safe for sugar gliders. It can be found in the garden section of most hardware stores.

Metal hardware cloth that also has 1/2 inch square openings is NOT GLIDER SAFE. First it is galvanized to prevent rust but the chemical coating used contains zink which can be toxic for gliders. This type of wire mesh also has many small but very sharp points on its surface that can cut glider's hands as they climb or even scratch them else where when they are rubbing themselves on the cage to mark it. Some people believe the galvanized wire also may contribute to urinary tract infections in gliders.

PVC coated wires may also be a bad choice. This wire has a rubbery coating on the metal wire. Some brands were found to be extremely toxic to Sugar Gliders a few years ago. The cages sold to new owners by Pocket Pets were toxic and caused neurological problems such as balance issues and seizures and many gliders died from being housed in these cages. Since it is difficult to tell if a particular PVC coated wire is safe most owners will not risk using this type wire.

Powder Coated wire with 1/2 inch x 1 inch openings is available from Martin's Cages but would probably be quite expensive if you are making a large cage.

http://www.martinscages.com/products/cages/sugar/

Stainless Steel wire is safe - but VERY Pricey.

http://www.twpinc.com/wire-mesh-material/welded-stainless-mesh
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#1387991 - 03/21/15 01:54 AM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: CandyOtte]
sassafras Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 99
Loc: us
Originally Posted By: CandyOtte
The biggest reason most homemade cages are made with the plastic hardware mesh (1/2 inch square openings) is that it is safe for sugar gliders. It can be found in the garden section of most hardware stores.

Metal hardware cloth that also has 1/2 inch square openings is NOT GLIDER SAFE. First it is galvanized to prevent rust but the chemical coating used contains zink which can be toxic for gliders. This type of wire mesh also has many small but very sharp points on its surface that can cut glider's hands as they climb or even scratch them else where when they are rubbing themselves on the cage to mark it. Some people believe the galvanized wire also may contribute to urinary tract infections in gliders.

PVC coated wires may also be a bad choice. This wire has a rubbery coating on the metal wire. Some brands were found to be extremely toxic to Sugar Gliders a few years ago. The cages sold to new owners by Pocket Pets were toxic and caused neurological problems such as balance issues and seizures and many gliders died from being housed in these cages. Since it is difficult to tell if a particular PVC coated wire is safe most owners will not risk using this type wire.

Powder Coated wire with 1/2 inch x 1 inch openings is available from Martin's Cages but would probably be quite expensive if you are making a large cage.

http://www.martinscages.com/products/cages/sugar/

Stainless Steel wire is safe - but VERY Pricey.

http://www.twpinc.com/wire-mesh-material/welded-stainless-mesh







I did not know about the zinc in the Metal hardware cloth :o! I have seen a few people on here saying they use it or recommend it but now that I know that that's out lol I will do some searching on the stainless steel wire and powder coated wire tomorrow night ^-^ is there any sights that are specifically for finding these types of things out?
Are there any incidents you have heard/read of with these two like there was with the Metal hardware cloth and PVC coated wires?
I'm not completely sure but I believe I read something that said stainless steel is not safe for gliders not even the washers and bolts people may use to put a cage together I remember reading someone had to sand them down. what that does I have no idea lol
I assumed PVC and powder coated wire was the same thing is it two different materials or just two different compounds or chemicals?
I sound very stupid I know lol sorry in advanced but people make cages out of pvc pipe and they are safe for gliders is this just the name of the material you would find in the plumbing section or is it also coated with something o.o
very glad you shed some light on this for me lol I was actually looking up pvc coated wire earlier just to get a gist of what I want and how much it would be. If the two you have listed are completely safe I will start looking into those are these things you normally can only buy online or would home depot/lowes stores have them?

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#1387999 - 03/21/15 04:33 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
Quote:
I assumed PVC and powder coated wire was the same thing is it two different materials or just two different compounds or chemicals?


They are totally different materials.

Powder Coating is a paint process where the paint is applied to the metal as a powder then the wire is heated to fuse the paint to the metal. It is a very durable and safe coating for wire used on most glider cages.

Some lighter weight cages have an epoxy coating. This is also safe for gliders but is more like a spray paint and is not as thick as the powder coating. Epoxy coating is more likely to chip and peel away from the wire. I had an epoxy coated cage that had already developed rust in many areas within 6 months so I junked the cage.

I have 3 powder coated cages that are 6 to 8 years old that have only developed small rust areas on the bottom where the metal cage pan rubs on the rails that support the pan - all out of reach of the gliders so I expect several more years of use for these cages.

The PVC Pipe used to make frames for most homemade cages is the same material used for water lines in construction of homes and is safe.

The soft rubbery PVC coating on some wire products is a totally different chemical formulation from the pipe. It is this coating that was found to be toxic to sugar gliders.
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& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

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#1388014 - 03/22/15 12:31 AM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: CandyOtte]
sassafras Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 99
Loc: us
O okay! thanks for explaining it to me!
Is the powder coated something you could purchase in rolls? Or is it only on already made cages?
If not in your opinion what would be the next best thing that is safe and also sturdy enough to hang toys/pouches and water bottles onto?
I was a little confused about the PVC pipe and the PVC coating I thought that the pipe was made out of or had the PVC coating on it that was harmful to them lol

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#1388028 - 03/22/15 10:19 AM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
No powder coating is a commercial process, not something you could do at home.

You might be able to purchase the powder coated wire panels from Martin's cages in the custom sizes you need for your home made cage frame but I expect that would cost much more than purchasing a large ready made cage.

Have you considered getting a standard cage? This is the one I would get if my current cages eventually need replacement.

http://www.exoticnutrition.com/costsuglca.html

You could make a fleece cover to 'dress up' the cage.

If you are looking for a cost effective home made cage the Plastic Hardware mesh is the best way to go. You can build your cage frame so that there are supports for hanging toys and pouches in the cage. I would not recommend a wood frame, but if you do go that way you could attach screw in eyes in various locations for hanging things as well.

Standard cages really look much neater to me than most home made cages. I am not fond of the look of zip ties and PVC Pipe. These are my cages. Since this photo I did remove the wood panels on the bottom because they were beginning to show damage and wear from being wet and scrubbed down with the rest of the cage every few months. This particular style cage is no longer available. The Congo is similar but slightly taller








Edited by CandyOtte (03/22/15 10:21 AM)
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#1388079 - 03/23/15 09:23 AM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
sassafras Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 99
Loc: us
Thank you very much for the site and info!

I have been looking at cages from them but non fit the measurements of how wide and tall I would like it

I didn't know about buying the panels and doing that way that mite be a good idea!
I will have quite a bit to spend so cost is thankfully not an issue as of right now
I'm also not a fan of the tip tie and pvc piping look I do like the black a lot better than the white but it's still eh
My boyfriend and I had just been approved for our own apartment so I will have to wait a bit to take new measurements of door ways this one has a small walk out wooden balcony so I will be able to wheel it out and wash it thank goodness lol washing the cages in the shower has not been a fun time lol
Is vinyl coated hardware cloth and option?


Edited by sassafras (03/23/15 03:04 PM)

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#1388155 - 03/23/15 09:44 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
I would personally not trust the vinyl coated hardware cloth for use on a glider cage. There is no way to know if it is the same formulation as the coated wire that was toxic to gliders or if it is a safe product. I would not take the chance.
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Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#1388171 - 03/24/15 12:51 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
sassafras Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 99
Loc: us
okay that's out! lol I was in home depot today and say the racks/panels for closets and kitchen organization but I could not find any that are vinyl coated -_- it's becoming impossible lol

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#1388226 - 03/25/15 10:19 AM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
Kris_N_Zoe Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1816
Loc: Longview, Texas
The vinyl coated hardware mesh is a wire mesh covered with vinyl material. It's what my cage is made of, my gliders are healthy and I asked a good friend who is very knowledgeable and she said the one I bought was safe. I got it from Tractor Supply. http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/green-vinyl-welded-wire-36-in-x-50-ft#desc-tab

I am aware that it says "galvanized steel", but since it is covered with vinyl it is safe.

But it is more rigid and kinda a pain to unroll. Most people just get the plastic mesh anyways.
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Pibble pup Jenson jump Glide free: Smoke (6/16/15) and Zoey (10/2/15) :rbridge:

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#1388257 - 03/25/15 11:36 AM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12153
Loc: Wisconsin
Be careful with the vinyl, there have been cases of toxic coated wire.
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#1388264 - 03/25/15 01:02 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
sassafras Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 99
Loc: us
ah! I have a feeling this is going to be impossible lol

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#1388294 - 03/25/15 09:49 PM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
The vinyl coated wire hardware cloth, even if safe, is not going to be any easier to hang things from than the black plastic mesh. It might be sturdier but getting a hook of any type through 1/2 inch square holes - and unhooking them again is not easy.

You would also need to avoid metal clips on the vinyl coating because it is a soft material and will tear if a metal clip cuts into it - once there is a small tear, glider pee will seep into it and it is likely that it will begin to rust UNDER the coating.

With most homemade cages, anything you hang will need to be attached to the cage frame not directly to the mesh.
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& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#1388355 - 03/27/15 09:52 AM Re: What is a sturdy screening?! [Re: sassafras]
Kris_N_Zoe Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1816
Loc: Longview, Texas
If you take c-links, bend the top half facing opposite the bottom half you've just made S hooks that make hanging things much easier. Just a little tip from a friend of mine when I first made my cage. You gotta get creative with the home-made ones, but along the way you figure out what works. wink
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