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#1390339 - 05/25/15 08:59 PM Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders??
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Food For Thought

Once we truly understand that they honestly do not understand the words we are saying or have the same feelings we do, maybe we can begin to connect with them better.
Click photo to enlarge

_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1390350 - 05/26/15 07:48 AM Re: Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders?? [Re: Srlb]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
:agreed:Excellent post, Peggy. thumb

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#1390351 - 05/26/15 09:15 AM Re: Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders?? [Re: Srlb]
KarenE Offline
Owner

Registered: 03/25/00
Posts: 41160
Loc: LittleRock, AR USA
Short, sweet and right to the point. Oh, did I mention excessively cute.


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#1390354 - 05/26/15 10:41 AM Re: Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders?? [Re: Srlb]
Kris_N_Zoe Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1816
Loc: Longview, Texas
Even if they don't have all the same feelings and emotions they do have some of the same feelings... They all have their own personalities and feelings. They even have ways of telling us how they feel. They may not speak with words but we still know what they mean. The way Smoke jumps to the front of the cage and watches me expectantly hoping for a treat, if he's on the floor running around he'll look up at me to hold my hand out for him, Zoey scurries down my shirt to curl up in her favorite spot and pop contently, if I call her name she'll look up at me. I feel like gliders are very expressive and its unfair to say "They're just animals, they don't have feelings" Given time and love gliders are amazingly sweet and loving. They even get grouchy if you disturb them! How's that not even a little human? I put gliders about the same level as toddlers. Those are just my feelings on the subject.
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Pibble pup Jenson jump Glide free: Smoke (6/16/15) and Zoey (10/2/15) :rbridge:

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#1390361 - 05/26/15 01:53 PM Re: Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders?? [Re: Kris_N_Zoe]
Terry Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 4845
Loc: Maryland
I agree animals have feelings too, just has they have personalities of their own. I do realize that they may be not quite like our own, and are expressed differently as well. I also understand that they may not know how to interpret all of our intentions or our feelings, but they do learn routines, so that demonstrates that they anticipate our actions and indicates they're learning from us (about us) and vise-versa.

That being said, I also believe the point of this message is basically to help people, especially those new to suggie parenting that the gliders will not know our initial intentions for them, they do not understand why we stare at them while they're in a cage with no means of escape from us. They don't understand that we peek into their pouch while they're trying to sleep or if we plan on harming them or most likely will eat them due to their prey/predator instincts of survival. Until we demonstrate to them that we are here as care takers and will keep them safe from harm while keeping care of them that they learn they can trust us. But that can take time, more with some than others based on their personality and experiences as we have learned to understand.
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Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
3 Sugies, (Ollie, Lulu, & Skadoosh)


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#1390365 - 05/26/15 03:08 PM Re: Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders?? [Re: Srlb]
Temulin Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 541
Loc: United States
So I saw that picture on facebook and got so confused because the red cherry in the background looked like it was on the glider's head. I thought it was a santa hat at first and had to stare at it for a long time. tounge

I hate when people say "it's just an animal." :\ Life is life, how you treat tiny creatures speaks volumes about the kind of person you are in my opinion. It's so common nowadays to treat pets as disposable. Just seems like it goes in line with how entitled and irresponsible this generation has become. Researching pets before you buy them seems to be more the exception than the norm. When my old kitty died, my landlord/roommate at the time was "kind" enough to ask me how I could spend so much "on an animal" for her cancer treatment. I tried to explain why I was upset when she died and told her I'd had her since I was 9 as a way of making the lady understand why this was hard for me. My landlord was shocked and acted like this was crazy. Cat was only 13 - honestly, I expected her to live longer. I didn't know what to say so I just awkwardly said "well, cats live 15-20 years sooo..." She was the kind of person that got pets constantly, didn't take care of them, didn't believe in vets, and got rid of them. It sucked. Same landlord would constantly praise how nice and well behaved my pets were, let her kid play with them and remark that her pets weren't like that. I also remember Fev's previous two owners saying he was "mean" and would never like humans or be friendly. He's the sweetest fluffball ever... my friend's kids play with him all the time and he never bites or crabs at them. His original owners acted like he bit them on purpose. Poor lil guy was just scared and had been moved around a lot.

My close friends would never do this, but it annoys me to no end when people get judgmental about how much I care about my pets or if I take in foster animals. I hate the condescending "oh you got another one, you little hippie" (I've actually only had two pets at a time for the last like 8 years... I just get freeloader animals sometimes and rehome them). I understand not everyone is an animal lover, but come on. :\ I don't consider vet bills a "waste of money" and honestly why would you judge someone for being compassionate?


Edited by Temulin (05/26/15 03:09 PM)
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"If we sliced today's tomatoes yesterday, they'd be yesterday's tomatoes."

:grey: Lord Feverstone

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#1390367 - 05/26/15 03:50 PM Re: Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders?? [Re: Temulin]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Most people just dont get it.

Most people want their pets to understand and feel the way that humans do. Honestly, they just cannot do so.
Although they are obviously not able to match the computational and meta cognitive power of the human brain, there are certain animals that are uniquely adapted, such as primates, dolphins, pigs, elephants.

With more and more studies currently underway, dogs will shortly be added to that list.

This is NOT to say your animals do not have feelings, it is just to say that your animals do not have the same feelings you or I have nor do they have the feelings you or I WANT them to have.

Nor does it mean we cannot have the feelings for them that we have for them.

Lets use dogs for example. Often times people will say, oh my dog knows when he has done something wrong and I know as soon as I walk in the door because his ears are down or he runs the other way....

9 out of 10 times the actual case of the matter is the dog is reacting by YOUR reaction when you come into the door. Dont believe me? Test the theory yourself.

When you come into your home and your dog has been well behaved while you have been gone, you are excited to see your dog. You have a smile on your face and bend down to give your dog love and affection. The tone in your voice is a happy tone and carries a happy vibration.

When you come into your home and you notice something out of place, papers shredded or the dog has done something it should not have done, the smile is not there, your body tenses up, you slam stuff down, you yell at the dog or stare in a mean manner and begin picking stuff up telling the dog to get away from you. Or asking the dog in a stern tone "what did you do?"

This alerts the dog that something is wrong. So of course he/she is not going to be wagging his/her tail to see you.

With gliders, yes, they jump on the front of the cage when they see you. They know you are bringing them food or they are able to get out of the cage and are able to go explore.

Many claim they have pouch protective gliders. The true meaning of a pouch protective glider is a glider that will crab no matter who you are and no matter what age the glider is. This is a job description of the glider. More then likely, this glider, once they see that it is you, will stop crabbing and just curl up with the other gliders.

A new glider coming into your home that will crab and lunge at you is just a scared glider. Not pouch protective.

A bonded glider will allow you to open their pouch and reach right in with no issues, even if they are vocal, yet if a stranger goes to reach in it isnt surprising if they lunge at them. Of course this doesnt happen all the time, but it is common for gliders behaviors.

So folks, please do not read more into this than what it says. I am not saying gliders do not have feelings. I am not saying you should not feel for gliders. But what I am saying is what you feel and how you feel is completely different than how a glider feels and what a glider feels. thumb

Hope that clears some of this up.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1390403 - 05/27/15 07:31 AM Re: Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders?? [Re: Srlb]
alixdor Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 04/14/15
Posts: 57
Loc: Canada Ontario outside of the ...
I like the way terri interpreted it.

I would argue greatly that all animals have the same feelings….. and this has kind of already been studied, researched and proven for almost a hundred years now.

Lets start off with behaviourism shall we: the dark ages of psychology. The theory that all behaviours are innately known when a creature is born, stimulus triggers the response. we never actually learn anything.

anyone ever heard of the great behaviourist B.F. Skinner? amazing researcher, very bright guy, incredibly wrong as it turns out lol. Well the theory behind behaviourism means that studying animal behaviour would be equal to studying human behaviour. For the most part they have been correct about this and this alone.

Skinner's box and research with pigeons are what lead, eventually to the discovery or the neurological basis of addiction. Skinner is also responsible for the discovery of operant conditioning

Pavlov studied dogs and their salivation when he discovered Classical conditioning, another form of learning.

Theories in psychology progressed as such: structuralism vs functionalism (from structuralism came Gestalt) —> behaviourism —> psychoanalysis (the freud [censored]) carl jung lead to —> humanistic psychology (then there's carl rogers who lead to positive psychology) —> connectionist and finally leading to the current school of thought, and where my first degree was based in: Cognitive psychology.

My point is this. We have gone through several several theories, each trying to understand the basis of the HUMAN mind by studying animals. All of the evidence we have gathered is that we are actually ALL THE SAME.

If you have a hypothalamus then you have the same "stress" pathways and feel stress the SAME way.

Perhaps should be defined here is more anthropological in terms of culture. The idea that animals do not understand being in a cage is a cultural gap between humans and animals rather then an inability to feel emotions.

A dog's reading of your emotions and reacting accordingly is actually proof that dogs therefore understand our emotions lol

Emotions are not some cultural human invention, they are created by billions of years of evolution, hormones, etc. Every brain is composed of the same elements. All animals have the EXACT SAME brain structures we do EXCEPT the pre-frontal cortex.

The pre-frontal cortex is responsible for "higher thinking" it is known as the executive function.

Executive function is the OVERRIDING of behaviour and emotions. Therefore, using the example of a person reacting angrily to a dog would be an example of a person behaving without the use of their pre-frontal cortex, they have lost "control" of themselves and are behaving in a animalistic behaviour and thus the dog understands.

Another great example of humans not utilizing the pre-frontal cortex is under the influence of alcohol. Alcohol shuts down the pre-frontal cortex and all reasoning. Humans act in a very emotionally driven state as they do not have the cognitive skills at this point to control their emotions.

Emotions came first, not culture, not the human condition. All animals are subject to the SAME emotions. Cats and dogs have anxiety, animals get depression etc.

For further research on how animals and human emotions are exactly the same (because guess what, humans are animals too and we aren't just magically exempt from evolution) I would recommend turning to:

Dr. Robert Sapolsky (also wrote books: "why zebras don't get ulcers", "Monkeyluv", "the trouble with testosterone" "a primates memoir" etc)
he has lots of youtube videos too, he's a pretty cool researcher.

The act of humanizing something has NOTHING to do with emotions. Humanization is the egotistic behaviour of assuming other species are in the same cultural state as us. It is the idea of imposing our culture onto another object or living thing. Theoretically it is very similar to colonization and ethnocentricity.

What we are talking about here falls under the realm of anthropology, not the psychological basis of emotion, but the cultural basis of behaviour. Very very different.


Edited by alixdor (05/27/15 07:36 AM)
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#1390419 - 05/27/15 10:55 AM Re: Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders?? [Re: alixdor]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
The act of humanizing something has NOTHING to do with emotions. Humanization is the egotistic behaviour of assuming other species are in the same cultural state as us. It is the idea of imposing our culture onto another object or living thing. Theoretically it is very similar to colonization and ethnocentricity.

What we are talking about here falls under the realm of anthropology, not the psychological basis of emotion, but the cultural basis of behaviour. Very very different.


:agreed:

If only I could be as good with wording..... LOL
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#1390441 - 05/27/15 08:18 PM Re: Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders?? [Re: Srlb]
alixdor Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 04/14/15
Posts: 57
Loc: Canada Ontario outside of the ...
Definitions are hard lol I can't possibly imagine to work that went into those 1200 terms added to the merian dictionary.

They better be paid well tounge
_________________________
Mum to Eva & Brie
Bengals Nala & Simba
Gecko Galileo Galilee & 4 babies
Hedgehog Gandalf
Chihuahua Milou
Bettas Pablo Picasso & M.C. Escher
Cockatiel Charles Darwin
Suggies
:wfb: Tesla, Ollie & Akbar The Great :bb: Loki & Kaiya :leu: Grace Kelly :grey: Omeo :plat: Audrey Hepburn

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#1390920 - 06/12/15 11:37 PM Re: Humanizing Your Sugar Gliders?? [Re: alixdor]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3058
Loc: u.s.a.
she is a doll what a cutie

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