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#1403663 - 08/20/16 05:30 PM Creaminos having creamino with platinum mosaic spots and or mixed coloring?
SugarRush72 Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 6
Loc: North Carolina
I am completely baffled because in my limited knowledge I was under the impression that creaminos always have creamino joeys.One father and two sisters are the parents who all came from creamino parents and show no signs of anything besides creamino. They had 3 litters back to back each. The more mature sister had 3 sets of twins and the younger had 2 twins and a single. The first set are dominant platinum from both mothers with creamino coloring added in. Some have the garnet eyes and one doesn't. One has an almost entirely black tail but without any question they have creamino coloring added in. The next two sets came out almost like 4 twins as they are very light and even the plat is extremely light. Their hair is mostly creimino but if you examine closely you can see where the plat hairs are mixed in throughout the body and dominant only where the mosaic areas are. What I want to know is WHAT THE XXXX ARE THEY? I had never heard of mixing these colors and was under the impression that it was not even possible. The only reason I haven't posted pics is because it is a nightmare to get it to show up on them due to lighting etc but in person they are instantly identified. Please someone give me advice. Thank you so much.

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#1403677 - 08/20/16 09:19 PM Re: Creaminos having creamino with platinum mosaic spots and or mixed coloring? [Re: SugarRush72]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12153
Loc: Wisconsin
I am moving this to breeding and babies for better exposure. I am not sure how the Creamino lines work.
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Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
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#1403699 - 08/22/16 10:40 AM Re: Creaminos having creamino with platinum mosaic spots and or mixed coloring? [Re: SugarRush72]
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1524
Loc: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Creme~ino is a recessive gene. Both parents need to possess the gene in order to reproduce it. If only one parent is a Creme or het and the other has no Creme in the background, they will not express the color.

When we breed, we should have a minimum of 5 generations on each side of our gliders to make sure we are not breeding too closely. There are only a few lines of Creme~inos, so we need to be extra careful about that.

If you could show here the lineage on both parents, we could better tell how they are getting these colors.

Also on the "Platinum Mosaics", are they True Platinums or what was once incorrectly termed as "Platinum Mosaic". In the past, some of the breeders used the term "Platinum Mosaic" when the animal wasn't Platinum colored. It was very confusing, which is why we now use the words "True Platinum Mosaic" to describe an animal that is both Platinum colored and Mosaic at the same time. Platinum is also a recessive gene and both parents need to carry the gene in order to reproduce that.

Unfortunately, we cannot post photos here any longer, so I cannot show you a proper example of a True Platinum Mosaic.


Edited by Marsupial_Mayhem (08/22/16 10:45 AM)
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Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena


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#1403700 - 08/22/16 10:53 AM Re: Creaminos having creamino with platinum mosaic spots and or mixed coloring? [Re: SugarRush72]
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1524
Loc: Lake Havasu City, AZ
https://goo.gl/photos/SBNaWgUk6DnMZTWU8

I don't know if this will work, but this is the link to an album of a boy that I have who is a True Platinum Mosaic. The Platinum coloration is reddish brown in color. He is also a Mosaic so he is demonstrating both a recessive color gene (Platinum) as well as a dominant gene (Mosaic). Dominant genes are one in which one parent must be a Mosaic (White Face Blonde is also Dominant), in order for any of the joeys to be the dominant color as well.
_________________________
Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena


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#1403710 - 08/23/16 04:09 AM Re: Creaminos having creamino with platinum mosaic spots and or mixed coloring? [Re: SugarRush72]
SugarRush72 Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 6
Loc: North Carolina
Thank you for your replies and advice. I have done as much research about this situation that I can find and yet no matter what information I dig up they seem to go against what is considered fact. These are 3 generations born from one father and two twin sisters. The sisters have all 3 times had virtually identical Joeys. The first set were the ones I have referred to as Platinum with Cremino coloring thrown in to create the mosaic. If you look very closely you will see that for approximately every 20 Plat hairs on the body you will see 1 or 2 Cremino hairs. It makes the total look of the Suggie to be a color I can't even describe as I have never located anything like them. I am very willing to subscribe to the theory that I may just not have the knowledge to know what their coloring actually is referred to as. As for the 2nd and 3rd sets of Joeys from each sister, they were born very obviously with a Cremino heritage and almost instantly as their hair grew they began looking odd. The Platinum coloring that makes up the mosaic part is incredibly light and so at a glance it is hard to see but with basic good lighting it becomes very evident that they are two or more colors. In the past both of the mothers/sisters have been bred with the same male and every time have had perfect creminos with no variations from all standard definitions. This is just another question on my giant question pile with these as the mothers had 3 generations in a row with very different colorings for each. If anyone wants to help me figure this out I will do my best to take as quality of pictures as I can but so far all pictures do not show the details necessary for you to be able to see these tiny quirks that I have mentioned. Thank you for your help. David

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#1403711 - 08/23/16 04:27 AM Re: Creaminos having creamino with platinum mosaic spots and or mixed coloring? [Re: SugarRush72]
SugarRush72 Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 6
Loc: North Carolina
Marsupial Mayhem, I was able to go to that site to see your true Platinum Mosaic. I as well have one of those that I adore and have had forever. He unfortunately has nothing to do with this breeding. My reference to a Platinum mosaic was meant more as a description of something undescribable. They seem to be the reverse of the other two sets of joeys. They are dominant with the grayish color with the cremino being the minor addition in the coloring while the 2nd and 3rd sets of joeys are dominant colored cremino with the platinum being the minor coloring. On those two pairs of Joeys the platinum is screaming to be acknowledged as platinum not gray. It is incredibly light and silvery and takes no effort to see that it is truly platinum. I desperately wish there was an expert near here that I could take them to get another excellent opinion done on a face to face level due to the issues with the photographs. If anyone has any other ideas please share them with me. I cant even register them because I have no idea what to say they are. I'm not new to this but I do admit my limitations about many various colors but I have never had any of these colors. I hate to use this analogy but it was like spontaneous mutation. I need the money but I can't bring myself to sell them as they are something I have never seen before. I don't believe these are the first of their kind but there always has to be a first such as Haley being the first true Plat. I am a very open person but always do my homework before making any judgements. I hope someone out there will be able to give me the advice that will crack this case open. thank you again. David

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#1404028 - 09/07/16 08:31 AM Re: Creaminos having creamino with platinum mosaic spots and or mixed coloring? [Re: SugarRush72]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Without having a link to the lineage, this is very difficult to assist. I'll try to explain what we know based on historical breeding.

In order to produce a creamino joey, because it is a recessive gene, both parents must have at least one copy of the creamino gene. You can have both parents being a het (means they are not creamino in color, but have 1 copy of the gene) or they can be a creamino, or one of each.

Platinum is also recessive, but works a little differently. Each parent can either have/carry the platinum gene, or one parent can have/carry the platinum gene and the other parent can have/carry the leucistic gene.


To complicate things a bit, you can have a double recessive. These gliders are commonly referred to as "Red Eyed Whites" or "Ruby Leu". This is where the glider is both a Creamino AND a Platinum (or other variety of a double recessive). However, these gliders do not look like what you are describing. These are more white in color.

This is the description of a Double Recessive using the colors you've referenced:

Creamino x Platinum - tends to come OOP solid white and by the time their eyes open a faint narrow diamond on the head and a faint stripe that does not pass the neck will appear. The diamond and stripe are a light cream color. As the glider matures, it may turn solid white and loose the diamond and stripe.

I have never heard of a glider that expresses both colors of plat AND creamino. I wonder if what you are seeing could be the results of some pouch staining on the fur? Time will tell this as it will go away after a while.

I understand good photos are hard to get. You may need to use a macro setting on the camera and have the right lighting to get it to show in a picture.

Do you have a link to their lineage in TPG database? That will help in determining what you have.

It's quite possible that you have a mosaic that has varying shades of fur. I'd love to see a good photo! wink
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Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


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#1404030 - 09/07/16 08:46 AM Re: Creaminos having creamino with platinum mosaic spots and or mixed coloring? [Re: SugarRush72]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Here is the link to my website. It has a lot of information regarding breeding, understanding genes, and colors of gliders.

http://www.glidernursery.com/breeding.html
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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