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#1439 - 01/25/03 08:54 PM Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area
Anonymous
Unregistered


Tela just barely started doing this. She'll be cleaning and licking herself and she'll try to lick her private area. Once she does that she starts to crab uncontrollably it seems. I go to her to make sure she's ok, and if I approach her she gets violent and actually BITES me. She is NEVER a violent glider, and only licks and NEVER bites. So this concerns me.

She's about 12 weeks OOP. I feed her BML, frozen fruits and veggies, mealworms and all of the other suggested foods here. I use plain nonfat yogurt as lickey treats, but not extremely often.

Does anyone have any idea what's up with this? Thanks in advance for any help.

Peace
Mickey

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#1440 - 01/25/03 09:00 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
BeetleJuice Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2724
Loc: Summerville, SC
Mickey,

You need to get this little one to a vet ASAP. The cause of the discomfort could be anything from a uti (urinary trck infection) to constipation. If she is crabbing after touching this area, there is a good chance that she is in pain, which may lead to self mutilation. Is she dehydrated (you can tell by gently lifting the skin behind her neck, if it does not snap back when you let go, it's a good indication that she is dehydrated). I do not mean to scare you, but gliders do not handle pain very well. Please let us know what the vet says. If you need help finding a vet, let us know and we will see if we can find one close to you.
_________________________
Craig

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#1441 - 01/25/03 09:03 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mickey,
I agree with Craig PLEASE get your lil girl to the vet ASAP!!! to have her checked for a UTI.. Or anything else it could be .

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#1442 - 01/25/03 09:33 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


When I first saw that this was happening I thought UTI. But I'm not sure now because she is urinating without crabbing, regularly and everything seems to be normal. Stool seems normal and her temperment seems better than normal. Other than when she does this. It's not an all-the-time thing either. It happened once this morning and once just now. She's been in my shirt for the past 4 hours. Once I stop her she's normal.

She's eating like normal, drinking like normal, and even playing more-than normal. She licks her licky treats SOOOO fast too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

She's having a blast playing... she's learning that she can jum faaaar and loves to jump to me when i put her on the bar.

I will call the vet and try to make an appointment ASAP. I DO have a vet that's local that treats gliders. Tomorrow is our one month anniversary from when I brought her home... it's been such a wonderful month.

And to think.. things can go wrong even if you do everything right.

I'll keep you posted, and keep your ideas on this coming. thanks, i appreciate everything!

peace
mickey

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#1443 - 01/25/03 09:38 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
It is possible that she may have a UTI, constipation or impaction to bacterial or protozoa problem. Your glider needs to be seen by a vet ASAP befor a crisis happens.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#1444 - 01/25/03 10:51 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
first get an e-collar on her, the plans can be found at this link. Her chances AFTER she does extensive damage lessen a great deal, collar her first while awaiting for the vet.

http://www.gliderhealth.com/slfmutl/index.html
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1445 - 01/26/03 02:26 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Were you able to make an appointment with your vet?

I agree with Bourbon... it's better to be safe than sorry with the e-collar. She'll hate it but you don't want the risk (nor the vet bills) that are associated with self mutilators. Best to take all precautions until she can be seen by a vet.

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#1446 - 01/26/03 07:09 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just an update. I put a collar on her last night after Burbon's post. Crazy I actually had moleskin in the house. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Well, I've never bled so much from my fingers in my life, but she's snuggled back up to me now, though still not happy.

I called the vet first thing this morning. He's not open on the weekends. He told me that with the measures I've done, it's going to be ok to see her tomorrow.

I keep telling myself: He's the professional, He knows what he's talking about, he and his associate are glider knowledgable. So tomorrow it is.

Tela, on the hand seems pretty close to normal. When she's not thinking about her "problem" she is as she always is. She has a huge appetite, likes to play, and is even sleeping in my shirt right now with her head on the outside resting against the back of my neck. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

That's it. More later.

peace
mickey

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#1447 - 01/26/03 07:17 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
BeetleJuice Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2724
Loc: Summerville, SC
mickey,

I'm glad to here that you were able to get her in the e-collar. They deinitely don't like it... Keep us updated on her progress and let us know what the vet says.

On a side note... I tried to find a vet for you in case you did not already have one last night. We do not have a glider knowledgable vet listed in our database for Vermont, could you ask your vet if he would mind being added? It could really help a sick glider in the future.
_________________________
Craig

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#1448 - 01/26/03 07:30 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm going to go out on a limb here and provide the information for my vet.

Dr. Metz, and his associate Jennifer
Shelburne Veterinary Hospital
Shelburne, VT

802-985-2525

I'm sure he'd love to help and save any animals in need!! And maybe the fact that there are glider-friendly vets in Vermont will encourage more Vermonters to get gliders. I feel kinda lonely up here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

peace
mickey

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#1449 - 01/26/03 07:36 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
BeetleJuice Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2724
Loc: Summerville, SC
Mickey,

Thanks. Got it added to the database. <img border="0" alt="thumb" title="" src="graemlins/thumb.gif" />
_________________________
Craig

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#1450 - 01/26/03 07:45 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mickey - my thoughts are with you! I hope all goes well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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#1451 - 01/27/03 08:06 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


OK, here's the update, now that I waited all day for the board to be back up so I could post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I brought Tela to the vet at 9:50am this morning. She had been licking herself quite a bit, but no visable signs of mutilation. Her bottom and near her tail was VERY sensitive and had a strong odor coming from it. She was also NOT a happy glider at all. I took sooo many bites this morning from REGULAR gentle handling. You could tell she did not feel well.

Well, the vet said that she definately had an infection and said that she should be OK. He gave me antibiotics to give her orally, and also some powder to put on her bottom. We put some of this powder on her at the vets and almost immediately she seemed to feel better. We also gave her her first dose of antibiotics. I'm NOT looking forward to giving her some more later tonight. My poor hands.

She seems to have already begun to recover some. Her temperment is much better and she doesn't seem to be in as much, or any pain. Although I've seen her licking herself a little bit, she does not crab while doing it. I'm not really taking bites anymore, other than little nips which could be attributed to the fact that she's 12 weeks OOP and hitting her adolencent stages.

The one thing that really intrigued me was the stubborness of the vet to accept BML as a diet. He photocopied a page out of his "exotic animal care" book and told me to use the diets listed there. One of which was the original Leadbeaters diet. He also insisted that I take the yogurt out of the diet because he "couldn't find anything in his sugar glider book about dairy foods". This is the first time I've seen this particular vet. Last time I went I saw his associate who had practiced in Texas and was VERY knowledgeable about gliders.

Well, I'll keep everyone posted. I hope everyone had a good Monday. I certainly feel a lot better now than I did this weekend. My Tela is going to be OK!

This should be a heads up to everyone too. You never think you'll have any complications with your glider when you get them, but even when you do everything right things can go wrong. ALWAYS have a vet available, and as I found out, ALWAYS have some money put away and ready to pay for a visit, because in this case, the vet doesn't bill, so I needed to pay at the time of service. If you remember that you're gliders will be happy!!

Peace everyone
mickey

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#1452 - 01/27/03 08:18 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm so glad Tela is feeling better! <img border="0" alt="clap" title="" src="graemlins/yelclap.gif" /> What is this miracle powder?? Did he say what type of infection she has? What antibiotic is she on? Sorry, I don't mean to ask so many questions but I am wondering what happened to this little one and hoping that she will recover 100%! Give her an extra hug for all she has been through. <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" />

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#1453 - 01/27/03 08:27 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The vet said that she had a gastro-urinary infection. He didn't say much more about it than that than how to treat it.

He gave me Sulfatrin Suspension as the antibiotic and NeoPredef as the powder. It seems to do the trick, and it may just taste bad enough to keep her from doing much licking! Tricky. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Other than that, I too hope she makes a complete recovery. I'm hoping she feels up to playing a little tonight!

Mickey

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#1454 - 01/27/03 08:55 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
BeetleJuice Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2724
Loc: Summerville, SC
Mickey,

I'm so glad to here that things are going well with Tela. Keep us updated on her recovery.
_________________________
Craig

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#1455 - 01/27/03 08:59 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mickey, I'm so glad to hear you got to a vet and Tela is being treated. I do hope she's feeling better tonight... poor little girl. Give her lots of TLC. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As an aside... since I work with a lot of doctors, I think that there is hesitation to accept things that aren't published... for good reason. Anyone can publish things on the internet, but to publish in a reputable science journal takes a lot of research (and money). So it's more believable because it's been thoroughly backed up. And even when things are published that are contrary to popular belief, it takes awhile for that knowledge to filter through and be accepted as reasonable. Science is slow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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#1456 - 01/27/03 09:22 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I didn't realize how hard this was going to be. Tela really really really hates me right now. I just gave her her medicine, and she did not like it at all. She doesn't even want me to touch her. I've taken so many bites in the past few days. My hands are sooo sore and black and blue around the entry wounds <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Though she's a selfish little glider tonight. I tried to put her back in her cage because she was being such a crab and she didn't want to go back in. Instead she want to go into my shirt. Maybe this is the "i want to be close, but i dont want you to touch me" time. Who knows. But it sure is frustrating.

mickey

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#1457 - 01/27/03 09:22 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Phish, you should keep the collar on her till she is healed, once she does more damage, you will wish you had. but you decide.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#1458 - 01/27/03 11:02 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Gliders dislike the taste of meds. Most are very bitter in taste.

To avoid some of the bites...wrap her in a little towel and only expose her face to give the med. Hold her much like a holding a parakeet...body in your palm with the index and thumb holding her head. Once the med is given...give her a mealie or special treat to help make up for giving the med.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#1459 - 01/28/03 12:00 AM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Another suggestion, if possible, is to inject the meds into a mealie worm, obviously it would have to be a good sized one, but at least you know she'd be getting it and you wouldn't be getting bitten. As for the bonding, anytime I do anything traumatic to them, ( they consider getting their nails trimmed traumatic!) I make sure I have plenty of mealies around to make up for it, make it something that she gets rewarded for, and you won't look so bad. She will remember the mealie more and the meds less.
Chey

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#1460 - 02/04/03 11:51 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here's an update everyone:

I have been giving Tela her meds since last Monday. She had gotten VERY mean when giving her meds to her, and she hated me. She didn't want to play or even wanted me to be around. She didn't like me giving them to her, but she got them every day.

She seemed to get better for a while, she stopped lickign and chewing on herself and was OK. Now she's not better. She doesn't move, she sleeps where she is, I've seen her even fall asleep and not be able to move out of her food dish.

She DOES eat and drink like normal, and she's not dehydrated, but she doesn't seem to have any energy. I fear HLP and I fear the worst. She WILL come to me now, but once she gets herself onto my hand, she'll stop, sometimes keeping her back legs in the cage still grasping the wires.

I'm extremely upset about this, and I can't seem to stop blaming myself, even though I tell myself that I did everything I was supposed to. What a sad day.

I know this should go into Glider Ads, but I'm looking for another glider. I figure that if Tela pulls through she will have a companion, if not, I'll have myself a furry friend, which I can't seem to think what it'd be like without one. So if anyone can help me out, I live in Vermont... drop me an e-mail.

Thanks for everyone's help and support. I will still be around..

peace
mickey

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#1461 - 02/04/03 04:17 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mickey - I'm sorry for all that has happened. <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" /> You are doing what you are supposed to do and that is all one can do. I know that members with more experience with sicknesses will be on shortly to offer any advice they can. Keep your chin up, be strong and know that I am praying for your baby's recovery! <img border="0" alt="glider" title="" src="graemlins/littleglider.gif" />

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#1462 - 02/04/03 07:19 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mickey, I am so sorry to hear your girl is having such a difficult time... my thoughts are with you both. <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" /> You've done all you can for her, please don't blame yourself.

You may want to open a post in Glider Ads as not as many people read the Health forum.

<small>[ 02-04-2003, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Toni ]</small>

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#1463 - 02/04/03 09:57 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mickey, I am so sorry that things are going good with Tela. I hope that you can find her a friend soon and she will snap out of it. I will also be praying for her recovery and you to have the patience to take care of her! My thoughts and prayers are with you!
Chey

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#1464 - 02/05/03 12:53 AM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
With 7 days of meds and still going downhill...I would say the sulfa is not working. Glider needs to be seen by same vet for a different antibiotic.

Baytrill is commonly perscribed as it is usually more effective to gram neg and gram positive bacteria.

Did the vet do a C&S by chance? Culture and Sensitivity?

You say your glider is not dehydrated....have you checked to make sure her skin does not tent? This is very simple...pull her skin up across her shoulders...and it it stands up(looks like a tent) then she is dehydrated. If this is the case she needs to be hydrated ASAP.

Dehydration is a big problem with a sick glider. Even though a sick glider is drinking...sometimes infections will depleat their systems of water due to fever, resperiation,and elemination.

<small>[ 02-05-2003, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: Judie ]</small>
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#1465 - 02/05/03 02:49 AM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Critter Creations Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 3398
Loc: Rock Falls, IL, USA
I am so sorry to hear that your glider is not doing well. Judie is absolutely right. You need to take her back in to get her one something different as the antibiotic you are using doesn't seem to be helping her. One thing I was wondering is if you have her in a galvanized wire cage? These cages are usually silver in color unless painted. If she is in a galvanized wire cage this could be causing the UTI's. Gliders should be housed in a PVC coated wire cage to prevent these types of things from happening. PVC coated wire cages are normally black. They are made out of wire and the wire has a plastic coating on it. They are more expensive than galvanized wire cages, but you actually save money on vet bills by having them in a PVC coated wire cage and you don't have to go through this horrible illness all the time. I was just curious if this is what may have caused the UTI's as a lot of breeders and stores recommend galvanized wire cages for gliders and they simply don't have the proper information. Certain bird cages are ok if they have baked on epoxy finishes and things of that nature. I still think the PVC coated wire cages are the best for many other reasons. Your glider will be in my thoughts and prayers. I sure hope that she gets better and I hope you are able to find her a friend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Keep us updated <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
_________________________
Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics


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#1466 - 02/05/03 01:22 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I regret to have to report to you all that Tela didn't make it through last night. She died last night around 10pm. I had made an appointment with the vet for this morning.

I thought I had prepared myself for this, but I was apparentally wrong. It's been a rough day.

On the brighter note, I may have contacted a breeder who has a joey available. And she's only an 8 hour drive from me! I'll hopefully be buying a joey from her.

Again, thanks to everyone for their thoughts and prayers.

Peace
mickey

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#1467 - 02/05/03 02:03 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mickey,
I'm really sorry to hear that <img border="0" alt="cry" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> .
You did what you could for your baby. You could never be prepare for those situations <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .
Very sorry for your loss...

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#1468 - 02/05/03 02:20 PM Re: Crabbing While Cleaning Private Area [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Woops.. I forgot to answer some of the questions asked.

I did try the "tent" technique to see if she was dehydrated and her skin slid back like it should have. This is why I didn't think she was dehydratred.

For a cage I have a 36"x36"48" PVC coated cage. I did a lot of research before I bought Tela. Her cage was her castle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Peace
mickey

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