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#146537 - 09/14/06 05:45 AM UTI Cautions
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
UTIs seem to be common place among sugar gliders, especially the males. At least this is what we have been led to believe. When a glider has a problem urinating the common practice seems to be running a urinary bacterial test and putting the glider on a wide spectrum antibiotic such as Baytril. If the condition is bad enough an e collar is suggested.

This is a rather haphazard way of diagnosing and treating a glider. In the first place you cannot get a clean urine specimen unless it is withdrawn directly from the bladder with a syringe. Then to get a proper diagnosis a culture must be grown and tested for the proper antibiotic.

But this is not the end. We must then determine what caused the UTI and treat that problem. The treatment with a wide spectrum antibiotic for immediate relief is not a bad idea because most of the time it will give immediate relief and act as a crutch until farther testing can be done.

There is not a lot of information on UTIs in sugar gliders but if you are interested in understanding more about this problem in small animals do a little reading about urinary tract infections in cats. I realize sugar gliders are not cats but much more information is available about cats urinary problems. This information will better help you to keep from making mistakes when dealing with UTIs in your gliders. And more importantly what causes the UTIs. Not only do we need to treat the UTI but we need to explore and treat what caused the UTI.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#146538 - 09/14/06 05:48 AM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]Charlie,
Thanks for this information. I didn't realize that UTI's were secondary infections. What other types of infections should we have the vet look for when a UTI is diagnosed? Are there common primary infections?
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#146539 - 09/14/06 06:49 AM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Very interesting.

I know that when two of my males were diagnosed with a UTI, it was based primarily on their behavior that I described and a urine sample that showed "lots of white cells" (I hope I remembered that correctly). No further testing was done and both were placed on an antibiotic for 10 days.

What other things can/should I ask my vet for it the situation comes up again? or does this all relate back to dietary issues (calcium)? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

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#146540 - 09/14/06 07:18 AM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
misa Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 66
Loc: Across the Universe
What causes UTI? Have you found any good articles about it on the internet?

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#146541 - 09/14/06 03:22 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Keep in mind that a glider has a cloaca-the translation of which is "common sewer" where everything interacts and can influence each other. Non marsupials have different openings for urine, fecal matter, and reproduction, instead of just one for everything. Although the mechanism should be similar, as to cause, the cloaca may make a marsupial in a caged environment more susceptible to infection. White blood cells are the body's infection fighting defense-it doesn't say WHERE the infection is, but it does confirm the presence of infection.

I will concede that UTI could be a misnomer-but it speaks to what is commonly understood. You could just as easily be seeing a reproductive infection, or a bowel/lower intestinal infection, as an infection in the bladder-regardless it needs treatment if present. Since they are ALL in the same opening-how can you tell?

Short of surgery on a marsupial-it is impossible to say, with a anatomical setup like a glider is equipped with, where in there the infection is. And surgery could kill or debilitate the glider, or keep him in an ecollar for the rest of his life. In my case, I have also seen anal gland infections. Treated like a UTI would be, and we wouldn't have known if it hadn't been bad enough to start oozing green pus. Regardless, what is the difference? If an infection is down there, it needs treatment or could lead to SM and worse. There is just no way to safely determine origin on a marsupial.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#146542 - 09/14/06 03:43 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
misa Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 66
Loc: Across the Universe
Just a question: my glider gives out a short hiss when he pees and poops (not all the time but once or twice a day) but I've also read that this is considered normal behaviour for certain gliders.

And on this forum there are people getting worried about UTI when their gliders do this. Should I get him checked out anyways? Is it also advisable to get him checked for UTI annually? Or maybe even more frequently? Or should it not be done until something's really amiss? A trip to the vets might cause stress after all.

I'm quite worried since they never show any signs of illness until sometimes it's a little too late.

Thanks.

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#146543 - 09/14/06 04:14 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
If one of mine hisses when peeing (pooping can indicate constipation) for more than a day, I go and have a urinalysis run. A glider came to me that had hissed when peeing for 3 years (they thought it was just normal for him). He had a massive infection-white blood cells, huge amounts of bacteria, and phosphate crystals in the urine. For the first time in three years, he does not hiss when he pees.

I believe it is an indication of discomfort when they do that. Some are more sensitive, like my Riker, and will continue on to SM, but that is rare. Then there are those like Binx (above) that will simply suffer with it endlessly with no other way to let you know something isn't right. It's taken a lot to get Binx to this point, and his behavior and appetite are better than they were in years. Because it stood so long, it's not over yet, but he is much improved. I'd say it's worth looking into.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#146544 - 09/14/06 04:45 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
misa Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 66
Loc: Across the Universe
Good to know that Binx's condition is improving : ) I live in Malaysia and it's hard to get hold of vets who are experienced in the care and treatment of exotic pets, especially sugar gliders. Is there anywhere you can point me to read up more about getting the urinalysis run done?

Thanks so much!

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#146545 - 09/14/06 05:46 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Any vet can run a urinalysis. All they need is for the glider to pee on a sterile surface (or take a sample from the bladder directly via syringe)-then take the sample in syringe and look at it under a microscope. A culture is usually done only if a treatment isn't working and the exact bacteria needs identified.

The other thing they do is use a technique called gram and wright staining (add a dye) to see whether the bacteria, if a concern, is gram positive or gram negative, to help target the meds. Baytril or Clavamox are two of the most common broad spectrum antibiotics prescribed for a general course with a non-specifically identified bacteria (or just knowing whether infection is primarily gram positive or negative, in other words). Meds for a glider must be based on weight, so it's dangerous to self medicate. But it's a simple thing to have tested.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#146546 - 09/14/06 08:37 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
You have the right idea about treating a urinary tract infection. Start with a wide spectrum anti biotic as mentioned and then advance to a culture if you do not see improvement. But keep in mind if you collect a urine sample like most do you will not get a true reading. Also you are focusing on treating the infection and not usually finding what caused the infection. As in the case that was mentioned about the phosphate crystals, anti biotics may reduce the infection but will have no effect on the crystals that caused the infection.

This sort of goes back to my theory about the excessive calcium carbonate causing crystals in the urinary tract and leading to blockage and infection. In the case of the gliders the phosphate crystals could have in reality been crystals caused by calcium. I think the presence of crystals in the sugar glider urinary tract is much more of a problem than vets realize. vets seem to be so relieved that they have discovered a UTI that they get tunnel vision and neglect to explore further for the underlying problem.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#146547 - 09/14/06 09:25 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
In the case of the triple phosphate or calcium phosphate crystals, addition of a small amount of ascorbic acid (usually added to foods as a source of vitamin C) has eliminated Binx's crystal count-and that is the treatment recommended for both types of crystals in most animal species. I feed the BML, but none of the others have had this issue, Binx's diet was questionable before he came to me. I also use the Jurassical now instead of Repcal (much finer) in my BML, and haven't had an issue in ANY of mine since I changed with crystals in the urine. Before that, Riker also presented with them once, along with an infection. It could be that the amount of calcium isn't too high, but maybe they can't break down the coarser ground/larger pieces well enough, and are unable to eliminate them properly?

Thought I should add that what we used for the ascorbic acid was a daily teaspoon of Hawaiian Delight babyfood, which has it added, and no danger of overdose.


Edited by Xfilefan (09/14/06 11:28 PM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#146548 - 09/14/06 10:21 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
misa Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 66
Loc: Across the Universe
Thank you so much for the answers -- much appreciated!

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#146549 - 09/14/06 11:08 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Perhaps using less of another more absorbable form of calcium. . . ?

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#146550 - 09/15/06 06:31 AM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Adding ascorbic acid is one way of combating the crystals as it alters the body's ph level. This would be a slow and rather long process that should be closely monitored. The body constantly strives to maintain a neutral ph level so fights to neutralize the acid. Of course a certain amount would still have to pass through the system. Jurassical is ground finer than RepCal and would probably be more easily absorbed by the body but the calcium carbonate is still there. Changing the brands of calcium also involves the altering of diets because of the D3 factor. The RepCal that is used in the BML diet contains D3. The Jurassical that is used in the SunCoast does not contain D3. The SunCoast diet relies on Vionate for it's source of D3.

Both forms are still calcium carbonate and the body only utilizes about 10% of the calcium. As the body strives to break down the calcium carbonate it is not sucessful in totally breaking it all down. Part of the calcium is only partially broken down and the result is crystals in the liver, heart, and urinary tract. Since the calcium content of these products are only about 40% to begin with that leaves a lot of extra debris for the body to deal with. And no one really knows the effect D3 has on the absorbtion of calcium. We are doing a lot of assuming by adding calcium carbonate and D3 to a sugar glider diet. Especially since no one really knows how a glider metabolizes the food it ingests.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#146551 - 09/17/06 03:16 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would offer a different thought on crystals and UTI's. The chemicals that make up crystals are eliminated in urine. They are always there. Certain environments favor specific crystals. Some individuals are more pre-disposed to crystal formation than others. And because each crystal is made up of different chemical elements, the creation of urinary tract crystals is a combination the individual, the urinary excretion of anions and cations (which can be influenced by diet) and the micro-environment with such things as pH (acidity and alkalinity is influenced by diet and bacterial growth).

To put that together, to build a struvite crystal or stone(magnesium-ammonium-phosphate, usually mixed with calcium carbonate) one needs the enzyme ureases present that degrade urea. Usually Proteus species of bacteria are the culprit, but it is impossible to form struvite in urine without an infection present. Normal physiology can get alkaline enough, or can have enough ammonia present, but both only occur simultaneously in the presence of a bacterial infection favoring both extreme alkalinity and proteases causing the extreme levels of ammonia.

Other crystals form in acid environments. The same thought process of the correct chemical building blocks, and correct pH, and other factors lead to their formation. Dehydration and other aberrations of normal physiology are stimuli that cause problems.

Stones can lead to infection if they block urine outflow. So can tissue that blocks outflow. But mostly we see crystals appear when conditions are favorable including infection being present as opposed to causing infection.

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#146552 - 09/17/06 03:27 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Schlep..that makes sense. I can say I've never had crystals show up in a glider that didn't also test positive for an infection.

Can you tell me exactly what a triple phosphate crystal, as opposed to a calcium phosphate crystal, is? Riker had calcium phosphate crystals when he tried to SM the second time. Binx had triple phosphate crystals. I am unclear on how much of a difference between them.


Edited by Xfilefan (09/17/06 03:28 PM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#146553 - 09/17/06 05:26 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Schlep what you have posted is in alignment with the old school of thought. Now we have people looking at crystals with a different point of view. Sort of reminds me of the old debate of which came first the chicken or the egg!

Urinary infections are not the only cause of stones and crystals. But stones and crystals are not the only cause of infections. However excessive amounts of oyster shell that makes its way into the kidney and bladder is not always broken down into liquid form This excessive undisolved oyster shell can irritate the interior urinary tract. When it is finally passed on to the uretha it can cause blockage. This is more likely to happen with the male glider because of the smaller opening for the urine to pass through. Changing the ph of the body does help to disolve the excess calcium. This is the logic behind the old belief that cranberry juice aids as a remedy for urinary tract irritation in humans.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#146554 - 09/18/06 11:44 AM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


At least one vet (mine) believes that increased Vit C helps prevent inflammation which she believes has to do w/the stone formation process.

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#146555 - 09/19/06 11:01 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Charlie,
I noted that struvite, as an example, can only be formed in the presence of bacterial ureases and an extreme alkaline environments that some infections create. Other crystals are made during different parameters. I agree that not all crystals require infection. But most are made from materials that are precipitated by changes such as pH swings bringing dissolved elements out of solution and into a solid form.

But despite my extreme respect for your glider knowledge and compassion, (and I mean EXTREME), I have to take exception with the notion that oyster shell materials appear directly in the urinary tract. To get from gut to blood stream and cross the absorptive tissue planes, and then circulate through the bloodstream and get filtered by the kidney glomerulus, cross that basement membrane layer to get into the ultra-filtrate, calcium and other crystal building block parts do indeed get broken down into salts that are a dissolved liquid form. In a different environment downstream with a different pH, calcium can again precipitate out of the liquid and congeal to form something hard and rock-like. But it doesn't go from dinner plate to bladder unchanged and in a shell-hard form the entire time.

The benefit of cranberry juice in a UTI is to create a more acidic urine, which is an environment that is less conducive to certain bacteria growing. Those that flourish in an alkaline environment won't like the pH result from the cranberry juice. For those germs that like an acidic environment, cranberry juice won't provide much relief or benefit. But it's action is mostly by pickling the bugs that can't survive in its presence.

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#150169 - 09/27/06 12:24 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I wanted to bring this topic back to the top and also find out what is recommended for gliders that have re-occuring UTI's.

As I posted above, one of my gliders was diagnosed with a UTI - but the vet mostly said that there were a "lot of white cells" present. I did not ask how he got the urine sample - but it was taken while he was under for a neuter. He was treated with Batryil for 14 days. This was back in the end of June/begining of July. Just this week he has started hissing while urinating again.

This little guy is only seven months oop. His dad had a UTI previously this year as well (end of July timeframe).

Are there any specific tests or precuedures that need to be run? Is it uncommon for a UTI to reoccur so quickly?



Edited by krispifsu (09/27/06 12:27 PM)

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#150228 - 09/27/06 04:23 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you Thank you for the technical explanations. It is so helpful to know the scientific basis for things.

I do have a couple of questions.

1. Has anyone noticed how much water these gliders drink? Is there a relationship between water consumption or lack of it and UTI/s"

2. Does the consumption of acidolphilus or bifidus affect the frequency or infrequency of UTI's?

3. When I was pregnant with my first child almost 30 years ago, my doctor explained to me that the body confused calcium and phophorus and would absorb the phosphorus preferentially unless magnesium was present in the gut and that therefore, I should always take a calcium supplement that contained magnesium in a 2:1 ratio. He said that phosphorus is in almost everything we eat and that it was not in and of itself a bad thing, but that it creates problems when it is not kept in balance with calcium and magnesium in the body. My family has followed his advice for the last 30 years and I think of it everytime I put reptical in my gliders food. I keep wondering if some of the problems gliders have with phosphorus is due to a deficiency in magnesium in the gut where the calcium is trying to be absorbed into the system.

4. I have always been told that calcium carbonate was the least desireable form of calcium for supplementation and that other forms such as gluconate, chelated, and ionic are more readily absorbed by the body. There was also a time 25 years ago when it was recommended that calcium from oyster shells not be consumed due to measureable levels of heavy metals and other contaminants concentrated in the shells by the oysters from the sea water. Many forms of seafood (such as swordfish) were removed from the market at that time. These items have been returned to the shelf with warnings to pregant women against too frequent consumption. We changed the rules about how much heavy metal contaminants we would allow and returned the product to the store shelves. Why is everyone so adament that calcium carbonate be the calcium of choice for our suggies? There are so many other choices on the market.

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#150230 - 09/27/06 04:32 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: krispifsu
I wanted to bring this topic back to the top and also find out what is recommended for gliders that have re-occuring UTI's.

As I posted above, one of my gliders was diagnosed with a UTI - but the vet mostly said that there were a "lot of white cells" present. I did not ask how he got the urine sample - but it was taken while he was under for a neuter. He was treated with Batryil for 14 days. This was back in the end of June/begining of July. Just this week he has started hissing while urinating again.

This little guy is only seven months oop. His dad had a UTI previously this year as well (end of July timeframe).

Are there any specific tests or precuedures that need to be run? Is it uncommon for a UTI to reoccur so quickly?


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#150231 - 09/27/06 04:37 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: LSardou]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
I am interested in knowing the answer to Krispifsu's questions. I have had my two boys in for urinalisis at least 5 times and the tests keep coming back negative.
thanks

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#150256 - 09/27/06 05:32 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
I have owned multi gliders for well over nine years. And in that time frame... none of my gliders have ever had a UTI.

With Sugar Gliders it seems that the Males are more prone to UTI's than females. Theory has been that the higher percentage rate of UTI's in males is because they Scent Mark. Penis becomes scratched... lending a way for bacteria to enter and multiply.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#150259 - 09/27/06 05:39 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: LSardou]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
With a repeated UTI in a short time frame... does not sound like the problem was cleared up the first time around. It could be as simple as not being on the med long enough a med change was needed.

Suggest the vet do a Culture and Sensitivity which has to be done when the glider has been off of all meds for three to five days.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#150316 - 09/27/06 09:34 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: Judie]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Judie...I agree, with some additions. Other than Riker (who had 2 UTI's about a year apart, at 4 mos, and 1 yr, 2 mos. of age-and none since, he is now 3 yrs 9mos), infections can be more than a UTI (I mentioned this earlier) such as Chronos' anal gland abscess (possibly from a long term, untreated UTI that spread-and we didn't treat right to start with thinking it was "only" a UTI), and Binx's infection, and we KNOW he had a UTI that was let go for about 3 years, and spread. We are NOT certain, with Binx, even though he had a discharge similar (but not identical) to Chronos', if it is in fact an anal gland infection. We do know he could not make normal anal gland secretions at the height of the infection, and can now. I suggest, with a recurrence, esp. in light of a possible long standing issue that may not have been recognized, the vet go with an eye to a deeper, more pervasive infection, and treat accordingly (longer term meds in combination to cover a wider array of bacteria-gram pos./neg./anerobic/parasitic- if the primary infective agent cannot be found). Possibilities include involvement of the anal glands or kidneys in a spread UTI.

It's interesting to note that at one point Chronos tested positive (and in large numbers)for Klebsiella Pneumoniae which is not normally found in urine, and at one point considered he might be diabetic, because of ketones, sugar and protein in the urine-when in fact it was because the infection had spread to his kidneys. Once the kidney infection was cleared, his test results returned to normal except for the anal gland abscess, which has taken a long time to treat...but we think now he may not need the surgery to remove the gland we were considering, and he is on on/off maintenance meds (like Riker for his facial infections) to keep the abscess at bay. If it ever does get bad again, surgery will be the only option, and I wouldn't recommend 6 months of meds due to the possible effects on the liver, short of such a situation. It's something to consider if it keeps recurring though.

With an infection that recurs, I go for a meds combo (as above) for 3 to 4 weeks, so any resistant "bugs" are flushed out of hiding and killed. In my experience, once a recurrence happens, less just leads to another recurrence. This is only what I've been thru with Riker, Chronos, and Binx, tho, and your vet may disagree-and there are risks. With my guys, tho, it was either that, surgery that could kill/debilitate, or giving them up to the bridge, and I realize some of my rescues are extreme cases. But with a recurrence within a few weeks, I would think it's a resistant bug, and 3-4 weeks meds is what I would recommend...twice to three times daily to keep the meds in the system around the clock and reduce possibility of resistance. Longer than that interval, I would look for a cause such as possibly needing more frequent cage cleanings (as maybe the male is rubbing and picking up bacteria from the cage itself, which flourishes in the hospitable cloacal environment), or a weakened immune system for some reason (such as early bad diet, extreme illness, etc., which you may have no way to know what a glider went thru in specific before they came to you, or what conditions the parents were in).
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#150345 - 09/28/06 12:19 AM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just to voice another opinion:
If the infection cleared and did not return within a few days, I would consider it a new infection and may well be a different germ. A resistant infection would be one in which the germ never was cleared. A longer course of antibiotics will likely do no good if the germ was resistant, whether that was due to anatomical reasons for not clearing (blockage or foreign body), or due to microbiological failure (wrong med). A longer course of an ineffective med is a poor strategy.

The single best way to select for multi-resistant germs that are difficult to treat is to run long-term antibiotic meds. With respect to UTI's, longer is rarely better. Although longer courses may be a reasonable strategy for osteomyelitis and such difficult infections to deliver the med to, that is not the case for the urinary tract. However, a bigger dose of medication, fluid wash-out and urine acidification all have merit. Clearing of the infection may be difficult if any foreign bodies and blockages remain present.

Best Antibiotic Strategies:
* Rarely gets to abscesses in adequate levels (Incise & Drain abscesses)
* Use the most narrow spectrum possible if the germ is identified. This will be safer, more effective, and minimize unwanted side effects.
* Use broad spectrum meds when the infection is serious or dangerous, the germ hasn't been identified to allow specific targeted meds, or getting a culture isn't possible or back yet.
* Use a reasonable length course of treatment - longer is not usually better. If it isn't working soon, it is likely not being given in high enough dose, the germ is resistant, or the med is not getting tissue penetration to germ kill levels. Make a change to a more effective strategy instead of continuing for a longer time that which is not working.
* Prophylactic treatment is a different issue. That is not treating an infection, but creating an environment to discourage infection. It also is horrible for creating resistance. One would only employ that strategy when the risk-reward analysis favors running that risk due to significant downsides of the recurrent infection one is trying to avoid.

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#150364 - 09/28/06 05:47 AM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
I would suggest that before giving any further medication the vet run a culture on your glider to see exactly what type of infection he needs to treat. Then the proper medication can be prescribed. Some UTIs can be stuborn and may need to have follow up treatment after a couple of weeks of stoping the initial treatment. When the vet takes the urine sample ask him to also check for crystls in the urine.

You did not mention the diet you are presently feeding the glider but I would suspect you also need to alter the diet and prehaps make some enviromental changes.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
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#150373 - 09/28/06 07:03 AM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Charlie - I sent you a PM about his diet - but in short, he is on BML, with the frozen bag of mixed veggies, and alternating between fruits (grapes, canteloupe, blueberries, peaches, pears, apples). He also gets Glideraide (max 1 x week), yogurt (1-2 x week), and treats of mealies (5 x weeK), yogies (rare), dreid fruits (rare), or pinenuts (occasional).

He is housed with his mom, dad, and brother in a 5' tall PVC coated cage. It is cleaned every 1-2 weeks (with vinegar and anti-bac soap) and wiped down daily (either with Clorox wipes or a damp rag). toys are changed out once a week. pouches are changed every 3-4 days.

He has lived like this all his life as he was born in my home.

Originally Posted By: schlep
However, a bigger dose of medication, fluid wash-out and urine acidification all have merit.


What do you mean by urine acidification? WOuld this be the same as suggestions to adding some cranberry juice to his diet for some time?

We're going back to the vet today to see the vet who intially treated him and having a C&S run on his urine. TO get a good sample, would it be recommened that the vet try to use a syringe to pul directly from the bladder? Would he need to be sedated for this?

Most likely my vet will prescribe the same meds he did the first time (.1cc of Batryil 2x day for 2 weeks). SHould I request a different antibiotic? or start those meds and wait for the C&S results?


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#150673 - 09/28/06 10:47 PM Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, by urine acidification I meant any dietary change that leads to dropping the urine pH, but cranberry juice is some people's favorite method. Some infections will do better with acidic urine. But usually most are inhibited in acid.

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