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#15085 - 11/24/03 10:09 PM eye injury and a lot of questions.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello, haven't posted here in ages... things had been going well until recently...

I just got back from the emergency room with Binca our youngest Sugar Glider (2 years). Last week I thought she had a cold and I spent a good time nursing her .. she seemed to get better. Then today I noticed a white thing protruding from her eye. Aparently She got into a squable and her interior eyelid (3rd eyelid?) Got torn, it may have been torn last week but not visible. Anyway its rubbing into her eye and causing an abrasion to her cornea. The pain of which is causing her tonot eat and loose weight.

I haven't been able to get in touch with my regular vet in the last week hence the emergency room visit. Anyway, the emergency vet's thought (she was not a sugar glider specialist by any means) was that the third eyelid will have to be trimmed or removed because it will continue to rub and cause her a lot of pain. I will do anything it takes.

The reason I am posting this is that I am wondering if anyone else has had this sort of experience or injury with their sugar glider. The vet also mentioned that it may not be safe to remove the inner eyelid if it has a lubricating gland in it.

Currently Binca is in a quarentine cage so that she may have free access to all food and vitamins. She is dangerously thin now and I am thinking that she is not able to compete with the other 4 sugar gliders in the usual cage. I am also going to forcefeed her with an eyedropper throughout the day. She eats Brisky's and a gliderade supplement. Does anyone have any suggestions for a special recovery diet or an pointers?

Also for the first time in 4 years (ever) Franky bit me REALLY hard (in the ER) (He is very protective over his daughter Binca still). It drew blood and is really swollen and sore. The vet thought I might need a tetnus shot or something, any ideas?

thank you so much.

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#15086 - 11/24/03 10:18 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Diedre,
Wow, I don't know that anything like that has come up. However there are some that have had eye problems, and their vet may be able to help out. I would suggest starting out with a glider knowledgeable vet consult, Dr. Bradley's number is: 816-331-3120. Whether that third eyelid is lubricating or not, I don't know. I would go to a bml diet, with her with it's excellent rate of healing. You can also hand feed her a lot easier with the bml vs the brisky's pellets. You will need a syringe and to leave the wheat germ and egg shells out, thin it out a bit to make it easier going thru the syringe. You can find the recipe here: BML You can use water to thin it out. You want to get the vitamins and calcium, as they are key to her overall health and helping her get her strength back. There have been many sick and injured gliders whose owners credit the bml with their glider surviving their illness or injury. I'm sure someone else who can be of more assistance will be along, I'll keep an eye out just in case tho.
Good Luck with little Binca, that's an adorable name!
Chey

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#15087 - 11/25/03 12:18 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


hi again
still waiting on the regular vet, i have an appointment tonight after work. until then, this morning I found that Binca's eye was totally crusted together (understandably!) Is there a good gentle way to remove the crust? I dropped a few drops of warmish water on it and i was able to open in a little to put the meds in. mostly she was trying to lick it off me though! Anyway, does anyone have a good method for dealing with this?

thanks
d

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#15088 - 11/25/03 12:29 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I have never seen this with a glider, but my cat got into a fight and had his third eyelid torn like you are describing. The vet just trimmed it off and he has been fine ever since. Like I said tho, I don't know what difference a glider lid and a cat's lid, or what they have in common. I agree with Chey about the diet, BML has turned many a glider around when in ill health and is a great steady diet for when they are healthy also. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have living proof of a complete turnaround on the BML diet, so am speaking from experience on this...lol.

As for your finger, glider mouths carry all kinds of bacteria, so if it is inflamed, I would try some anti-biotic ointment like neosporin and a band-aid until it heals up. If it starts to look infected badly, then see your family physician. I do not know why a tetanus shot would be advised. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

Poor little Binca, I hope she gets to feeling better soon.

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#15089 - 11/25/03 12:36 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Contact John. He went through something with a third eyelid with one of his gliders. Seems the third eyelid was scratched...not sure if torn.

www.rowdysrooranch.com is his web site. His phone number is on it so you can call him.

My suggestion is something for the pain and possibly an antibiotic to help with possible infection.

Call Dr. Teresa Bradley DVM or take her phone number or the phone number of the vet that John used.....with you to a vet who can help your glider.

With the pain and possible infection that is involved with the eye...vet care is needed ASAP.

Let us know how it goes with a follow up. Good Luck.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#15090 - 11/25/03 12:40 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


as for the crusted eye use a clean wash cloth with warm water gently rub then rinse the cloth then rub again untill the crust comes off same as you would a kitten it's really important to keep the eye open so any infection can drain out make sure the cloth is clean and free from things like fabric softner and such you can also use a cotton ball hope that helps

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#15091 - 11/25/03 04:09 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


thanks everyone for your input!
tonight Binca is feeling a lot better I think. Only the vet appointment will tell.

I spoke to John as you mentioned and he offered me some helpful insight. Her injured eye is open almost all the way now and I think she can see out of it ok. She seems to be a bit perkier with all the special attention and the numbing/antibiotic eyedrops are helping.

I'll let you know what the outcome is incase anyone else has this problem in the future!

thanks again


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#15092 - 11/25/03 07:11 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The problem I actually had, was that Racer's eye itself was scratched, and then ruptured. Where the third eyelid came in was that the doctor stitched his third eyelid shut. There are similarities though. Racer's eye was scratched, as is Binca's (either from the fight, or from the torn eyelid....I can't say for sure without seeing it, and the stain that was done, in person). I am thinking that if the eye drops do not work, it may be possible to stitch the eye shut, temporarily, to let the scratches on the eye, and the torn eyelid, heal. I am no vet, but I would think what would work with one, should work with the other, since it is not diseases we are talking about, just wounds. I know better than to try to guess treatment for diseases. Found that one out the hard way.

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#15093 - 11/25/03 09:05 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: SkyBlueGliders]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3059
Loc: u.s.a.
if i were u i would give her a better diet like bml at least its a proven diet

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#15094 - 11/26/03 10:24 AM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


OMG!! I hope she will be ok, please keep us updated on this little one..! My heart goes out to the both of you.! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#15095 - 11/26/03 10:45 AM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: SkyBlueGliders]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Thanks, John. I remember the third eyelid and the eye being sutured temp. but could not remember the other problem with the eye itself.

Guess this person will be taking the glider in on Friday to be seen by her local vet since no further update.


Edited by Judie (11/26/03 10:47 AM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#15096 - 11/26/03 10:55 AM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


my local vet appointment is tonight. keep your fingers crossed. He is officially a wildlife vet and he only sees "strange and unusual animals" not cats or dogs. he is highly specialized but that makes him only have office hours two nights a week he spends the rest of his time working in an anima wildlife rescue and sancuary. hes VERY good, but sometimes not convenient.

i wanted to get to see him last night but his office hours on tuesdays are really far away from me and i couldn't get a ride! but the official appointment is tonight at 6:15 but its sort of first come first serve so I'm showing up at 5:30 when it all starts. so ill let you guys know ASAP (once i take care of my baby!)

she is loving the BML lapping it up like candy. i had done that diet before with them but certain gliders were getting up earlier and gorging themselves on the "good stuff" and i knew that they weren't all getting a balanced diet. She is getting her strength back and she is also showing an interest in chewing the brisky's again so I think she is starting to feel a little better. I am just anxious about the apointment tonight. I want her to be ok. I don't want to put her through any unnecessary pain and unneeded surgeory. she's just SOOOOOOOO small!!!! *ack* im just nervous. this is way scarier than when the boys got neutered...

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#15097 - 11/26/03 11:17 AM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
If this is an injury due to an food aggressive mate....you may want to divide the food stations up or consider different housing arrangements for her. Sometimes when pairing we do a miss match of personalities. An aggressive male needs to be housed with a very Alpha male to put him in his place.

Also, keep the nails trimmed. This alone would not have prevented the eye injury but will help prevent nasty swipes from ripping the skin of a more docile glider.

Anyway...just food for thought with the above. Sending Get Well Wishes to your little girl. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#15098 - 11/26/03 11:42 AM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
BMXgirl Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 7078
Loc: USA
Oh my! Poor little girly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" />
Lots of good thoughts and a prayer for a super speedy recovery! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Keep us updated!!!
_________________________
www.GlidersUncensored.com
(Glider Anatomy, Info, & a wee bit of fun.)

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#15099 - 11/26/03 11:49 AM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Good luck with the wildlife vet! We're praying all goes well for your wee one to heal quickly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#15100 - 11/26/03 01:55 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


leaving to get to the vet in a few.
i file thier nails with an emory (sp?) board.
they have bene living peacefully in a colony of 5 for the last 2 years, more recently the mother, alpha female has been super bossy about food and stuff to all the other ones... maybe i need to have 5 food stations? i have 3 right now.

anyway i thought that maybe anyone curious about the injury would want to see an image of it so here are some pics if i can figure out how to pose them.

the gooeyness is from the eyeointment.
her right eye (on our left hand side) you will see has an small white bit at the bottom. this is the third eyelid.

thanks for all you help and wellwishing.


Attachments
169334-DSC00540.jpg (20 downloads)


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#15101 - 11/26/03 01:55 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


heres the second picture


Attachments
169335-DSC00541.jpg (20 downloads)


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#15102 - 11/26/03 02:58 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Just because a colony works for a couple of years...does not mean there has not been some sort of turmoil within itself. It just means now...the problem needs to be addressed befor there are more injuries along with additional vet bills or worse yet...a dead glider.

This is what happens when the Alpha male or an Alpha female is unable to run unwanted gliders out of what they consider their territory...they will proceed to starve the untolerated animal by running them off from the food dishes.

My suggestion is to house this little glider with a friend of her own in another cage setup permanently.

With her eye problem...she needs to be seperated out anyway...and once this is done she normally would not be accepted back into the colony. The Alpha Female has made it quite clear that this little female is unacceptable by the aggressive behavior that is being enforced at the food dishes. So, for this little gliders wellness kept in mind....different housing arrangements have to be made ASAP.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#15103 - 11/26/03 03:01 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Deidre, what did you mean when you had them on the bml before some of them would get up and gorge themselves on the "good stuff". Is it possible that you would consider keeping them on the bml? We can probably help you get thru any problems you had with them eating it. You may need to set up 5 feeding stations if someone is getting aggressive and not wanting to share. Possibly set them up so they can't see anyone else when they are eating?
good luck, poor little girl, hopefully she will soon be ok!
Chey

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#15104 - 11/26/03 03:39 PM Re: eye injury and a lot of questions. [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
The issue is with the Alpha Female which appears to be overly aggressive due to her territorial behavior. No amount of food inside of the cage area and in muti dishes is going to solve the problem that is happening within this colony.

From my experience with gliders...this colony has a time bomb so to speak within it and if not delt with soon....there may be a crisis that could have been prevented. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Gosh...no matter how I write the above...it still sounds sort of harsh. Nothing personal here...just trying to get accross the fact that gliders can be really nasty to one another over what they claim as "rightfully theirs".

Boy...I hope this little one is going to be ok. Her photo shows she is..... a "Real Cutie". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />


Edited by Judie (11/26/03 04:35 PM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#15105 - 11/26/03 05:30 PM eye injury/ colony/ and VET VISIT UPDATE [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


its ok. not harsh. i understand. the whole thing was just a real suprise for me. the strange thing is that when i found her first (thought she was ill the eye injury not visible) the mother (who is the alpha one) was down around her licking her and preaning her. Im wondering if it was not the sister Thumbelina who also takes after her mother in her crabbiness... I have to observe more closely. Because I want to be very carefully about who i seperate in this family dynamic. If it was not Spooky who was the aggressor I would rather not take Binca away because Binca is incredibly close with Spooky's mate Franky. Infact Binca and Franky share one of the strongest and most tender bonds among them. Also, Spooky and Franky are tightly bonded as shown thru previous seperations (when he got fixed, vet appointments etc). SPooky is the alpha but It wouldn't suprise me if Thumbelina was the aggressor. I am going to observe them very closely over the next few days to try to determine this. If it was Thumbelina I will put Thumbelina and the brother Tarzan with eachother. (PS ALL MALES ARE FIXED NOW <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

As far as the fact that they are seperated now affecting reuniting them in the future. I don't know, Franky and tarzan were each seperated for about 4 days post-neutering and their reunification with the rest of the colony was really successful (really adorable actually I'll have to post it in the cute stories area)

Right now they seem to want to be together. Franky had a brief visit to the top of Binca's seperation cage earlier today. They are so sweet. ever since she was first OOP, he has always looked after her.

***

ON THE vet VISIT...

for the UPDATE people have been looking for.
GOOD NEWS! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Dr. Mertz did another eyestain to see the extent of the damage to the surface of Binca's eye and it showed an improvement over Monday's ER eye-stain. (the hospital sent him the records). It is about half the size of abrasion. I have a follow up in 2 weeks for another eye stain. He thinks the surface of her eye will be totally healed by then. But if it's not and there is still ANY mark at all he is going to recommend a surgeory to trim off the torn portion of her eyelid.

If you imagine a sail on a sailboat there is a triangular tear in long edge (the lip of the eyelid) but it only goes about 1/4 of the way down the eyelid so he proposes that he would trim off a small arc in the 3rd eyelid so that it will be smooth over the surface of the eye. He is confident that it will be an easy surgeory for her to undergo.

She has also gained back almost all the weight she lost while ill. It's *amazing* how quickly they can gain or loose weight in just a couple of days.

The vet says she is strong and healthy now. No excessive thinness and good poops and no signs of infection. He advised a temporary atleast trial play session with the colony to see how they react to eachother (with a helper present to assist if i need it).

Anyway thats the going right now. Shes fiesty again and trying to jump and glide every time i open the pouch! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks everyone.

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#15106 - 11/26/03 07:30 PM Re: eye injury/ colony/ and VET VISIT UPDATE [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
sounds like Bianca is on the mend. Such positive news. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#15107 - 11/26/03 08:48 PM Re: eye injury/ colony/ dynamics [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


so i have been observing the 4 sugar gliders in the big cage now. watching for bickering and what not. so here's my question... why do all the sugar gliders go to the same food dish and try to all squish in when there's 3 more that are full of food and virtually the same? same thing with the waterbottle...

i let the 4 colony gliders out to play in the room where binca's isolation cage is. they all ran out of thier cage and over to hers immediately. i didnt see agression but a lot of curiousity. she seemed happy to see them. i guess its lonely for her, even being in the pouch with me 12 hours a day.

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#15108 - 11/27/03 11:51 AM Re: eye injury/ colony/ dynamics [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I noticed in an earlier post you seemed to indicated that you are feeding both BML and Briskies. Please offer only one diet plan. I would stick with the BML as it has helped your glider regain her strength and it has been successful for many many other gliders. As for why they are all congregating around one food dish it might be because they feel safer together and might appear weak if they left to go to another food dish. I would definitely break up this colony. Great new on the vet. Is she grooming near her eye? Has they vet recommended an e-color? Please keep us updated.

Ushuaia

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#15109 - 11/28/03 11:28 AM Re: eye injury/ colony/ dynamics [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i usually feed brisky's. it was recommended that I switch to BML atleast while she was ailing. she was getting BML but i wanted to see if she would eat the brisky's because I was trying to guage the pain she was feeling in her face (since she wasnt eating the pellets because it hurt her).

she is not overly grooming near her eye, although i do think the ooze of the ointment at first makes her want to clean it but then makes her stop because its gooey. my vey never recommends e-collars. he usually has other and so far sucessful measures.

she has been continuously improving and has enjoyed supervised play visits with the rest of the colony outside of the cages in a play room. the damage to the third eye is still visible but it appears to be causing less damage to the eye itself and seems to be bothering her less. We shall have to watch though. 2 weeks and she gets her next appointment and eye exam.

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