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#151025 - 09/30/06 01:00 AM MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN
Anonymous
Unregistered


Today I went to feed the suggies and Cloe, a mama glider with a 3-4 week ip joey had managed to trap herself in her fleece blanket and tangle it with the perch from their cage which they take down as the whim strikes them to rearrange things. I quickly freed her and saw that she was dehydrated and gave water from the water bottle, which she lapped up and ran to the kitchen for pedialyte. She drank about 1 cc and went into convulsions and died in my hand. I wished her a quick journey to the Rainbow Bridge. My heart was breaking for her little joey. I thought the little joey is too young to save.

The joey started struggling in her pouch so I removed it. It is tiny and pink and very undeveloped. I looked at its little face trying to think how can I feed it and keep it warm. It does not even have upper and lower jaws yet, just a little o opening where the nipple goes. I could not tell what sex it is. I folded it in the palm of my hand to keep it warm and tried to think. My Princess who lives with George and Daisy has a joey in her pouch about the same age. Princess always babysits and nurses any of Daisy's babies. If she has milk she accomodates any joey who sticks its head in her pouch. I thought that the only thing I could try was putting my little orphan in her pouch and see if she would adopt the little mite. I wrapped the joey in the dirtiest corner of one of Princess' blankies (where George scent marks) so it would smell like her family. My son helped me by holding Princess and I opened Princess' pouch and gently put the joeys head in the opening. The little joey climbed right in and found a teat. There must have been milk in the teat because the joey calmed down and stopped struggling right away. Still restraining Princess so she could not reach her pouch (I wrapped her bottom half in a washcloth) I fed her a little piece of turkey/ham, one of her favorite treats. I thought it might distract her so she would forget to look in her pouch. I was trying to buy a little time for her to get used to the little stranger.

After a few minutes I removed the cloth, telling her what a wonderful momma she is and let her look in her pouch. She pulled it open with both hands and licked the orphan joey and rearranged it a little. She did that 3 times.

That was 8 hrs ago and both joeys are still in her pouch and she is behaving normally. She is back home with George and Daisy who also got a turkey/ham treat to distract them. I thought if they all smelled like turkey/ham they might not notice any strange smell from the stranger in Princess' pouch.

So.......

Maybe Princess will make enough milk and the joey will be be fine.

But.....

Maybe not.

Is there any way to save this tiny joey if Princess rejects it?

What are the chances of Princess raising the joey successfully?

Send prayers please

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#151032 - 09/30/06 01:37 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


lots of prayers sent your way.I am very impressed with such quick thinking on your part. I dont have experience with rejected or orphaned joeys as of yet but I know there are alot of people here who will be along to help you and give you advice for the rest of us to learn from. Good luck!! We all send lots of love for you and your babies.

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#151033 - 09/30/06 01:51 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


crazyAngel, I am so sorry this has happened. I think you have probably done all you can for the night. Just check every hour or so on the joey to make sure he is still in the pouch and that he is still warm. You may want to put a little extra piece of blankie in the pouch for him. If all goes well thru the night go first thing in the morning to any pet store that sells Esbilac, this is a milk replacer for puppies. You need to have it on hand just in case your foster mom rejects the baby. You feed the joey with a syringe like you did the mama. Keeping the baby warm and full are the two most important things. While you have some time, until the pet store opens, go to the site on the forum and read everything you can on hand rearing a joey. Here is another site for some information. www.sugar-gliders.com/glidervet-52.htm hug2 Hugs and prayers to both of you. Please keep us posted on how the little guy does.

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#151035 - 09/30/06 02:04 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Wow! You are truly an amazing person! To think so fast while your heart was breaking to save another glider. God Bless you! I pray your little one makes it. I had always read that once a joey IP underdeveloped could not reattach to a teat. Is the baby actually attached? (I would think so otherwise, the joey wouldn't have made it this far)

I'm so sorry this happened to you and the mommy and joey too. No matter what happens, you did everthing you could, more than most of us would have thought of on such spur of the moment situation. HUGS to You and the baby
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#151040 - 09/30/06 03:07 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Anonymous
Unregistered


there are still two joeys in the pouch. I haven't tried to look in, but I can feel the double bump. I don't want to draw too much attention to Princess' pouch. I am trying to be casual about feeling the area. lol I don't think she would let it stay in if it was not latched on. And just seconds after I put it in her pouch, the joey stopped struggling and sqirming, so I think it is latched on. Her joey is on the bottom teat on her right side and I tried to put the orphan on her left side but it aimed itself at the top teat on the right side. I too, had always heard that they could not latch back on if they were dislodged. Perhaps they cannot latch back on to the same teat because I understand it swells in their mouth so they cannot let go. Maybe a new teat is not swollen yet so they can latch onto it. And Princess opened her pouch with her hands three times and licked it and nosed it around, so maybe she helped it latch on. I just hope that Princess is making milk in that teat. I guess she must be or the joey would still struggle and squirm. It was like a reflex for it to crawl when I had it in my palm. Could be since they crawl when they are born. It is soooo tiny. Maybe a gram in wt. Little miniature tail. Little bumps for ears. Bigger bumps for eyes. Transparent skin - you can see its internal organs through the skin. No discernible genitalia.

I am so thankful that Princess accepted it. She is such a special suggie. She is my grocery store wrist rider. She loves to go to the store and ride on my wrist when I push the basket. Nose to the wind - like a little hood ornament. She is very well behaved and has never tried to jump off, even in the produce department. The deli lady always gives her a little treat. I am sorry. I am blithering. I think I am still mildly hysterical or in shock. It was not thinking really, just an act of desperation.

I want to thank everyone for your kindness and support and prayers. It helps, it really does.

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#151070 - 09/30/06 09:23 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


You did such a good job with the joey! Many many prayers sent your way. This is a great story to learn from. I don't know that I would have thought to do the same thing. Keep us updated on the joeys progress.

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#151077 - 09/30/06 09:43 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Crescent Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 615
Loc: USA
Wow! Praying it will all work out!

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#151078 - 09/30/06 09:52 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


still 2 IP

hoping hoping hoping

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#151079 - 09/30/06 09:53 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: Crescent]
dranger1108 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 2501
Loc: Parsons, Kansas
so sorry for the loss of glider, hope the little one makes it... please keep us updated.
_________________________

:grey: Michelle's Sugar Glider Babies & Toys :wfb:
USDA licensed breeder
http://www.freewebs.com/michellesugarbabytoys/index.htm
Neat glider themed products!
:glider: http://www.zazzle.com/dranger1108/products :glider:

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#151088 - 09/30/06 10:49 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: dranger1108]
tbull Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3884
Loc: Wyoming
Great thinking! We are all crossing fingers and toes that this little one makes it. hug2
_________________________
T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*


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#151126 - 09/30/06 01:28 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: tbull]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
I'd not thought of that about the other teats not being swollen. I bet your right smile I was so scared to check on this thread and SO EXCITED to see the baby is still latched on! I feel so sad about the baby's mama frown Princess is an awesome mommy though no matter what happens and you're an awesome glider mommy! Yay for Princess!
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#151132 - 09/30/06 01:59 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: SugarBlossoms]
MizValorie Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2579
Loc: Sherman, Texas
Fast thinking!! I hope everything goes okay! Praying for you and the suggies. I am so sorry about Cloe.
_________________________
Valorie and our 10 fur children

RIP Mary Kate

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#151204 - 09/30/06 04:44 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: MizValorie]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good thinking! Bless you can the little one. I'll keep you in my prayers. I do hope all goes well *knock on wood*

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#151375 - 10/01/06 12:14 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just got home from work (I work long hrs on the weekend and am gone 12 hrs on Sat) and could not wait to peek in the pouch.

The baby on top is the orphan and the only one I can see. Its little leg moved and I saw it wiggling so surely it must be latched on. I cant see its head to tell. I worried all day that it was just in there warm and cozy and starving to death, but it is all pink and wiggly so it is definitely still alive.

I am so grateful to see that little wiggle. Princess opens her pouch and licks the orphan and snuggles it with her nose just like it was her own. I am so proud of her. I am starting to believe that maybe this will work. I didn't think it would work at the time, it was just the only thing I could think of so, I had to try something.

Does anyone know how long till we know if Princess will let the orphan stay in her pouch? Is she suddenly going to realize there is a stranger in her pouch?

Can suggies count?

I feel like I should be doing something, I just don't know what.

I want to thank everyone for their prayers and support. It has helped more than you know.

I will post again tomorrow evening when I get home.

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#151383 - 10/01/06 12:33 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1732
Loc: Utah
I had a rabbit when I was young that accepted a group of orphan kits after her litter had died. I was told then that most animals will do the rejecting within the first 24 hours. So I think as long as she is leaving it in there and it found a teat then she will probably accept it as her own. Personally I dont think people give animals quite enough credit. I think most good well adjusted animals know when a baby needs them and are willing to do their best for them.

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#151384 - 10/01/06 12:35 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
I've heard of gliders taking in other gliders like this in captivity. In the wild, they care for eachothers babies all the time although I'm sure they don't switch at 2 or 3 weeks IP, but you know what I'm trying to say. smile She seems to be doing great! I personally would up her protein with more mealies, boiled chicken and the Vanilla Ensure so she can hopefully produce the milk she needs to feed them both. I've done some more reading about it and yes, the baby IS latched on or would have been lost long before now. So happy the baby is snuggled up in there still smile
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#151401 - 10/01/06 01:38 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'll get some Vanilla Ensure tomorrow. How much should I give her at a time? I am sure she will eat all that I give her. She loves to eat and loves variety. I have to watch her weight or she will become portly, but ensure will have calium and vitamins also.

I have a recipe for sweet potato pie for suggies that she adores and it is high in protein. I will make it Monday. It makes 32 two glider portions and you freeze it.

Where did you find something to read about this. I have read everything I could find about suggies and found nothing on this topic.

You are so smart. You found me something to do.

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#151413 - 10/01/06 03:46 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow Ive just read this post and feel it is 1 of the most moving posts I have read. It sounds to me that you have 1 very special glider that has taken on this little orphan. I cant believe your quick thinking..taking it oop then scenting it and putting it in another pouch when you were heart broken about losing your other glider, your amazing and a wonderful suggie mum. Im sure she would of rejected it more or less straight away but it sounds like she is doing her best for it and neither of you can do no more. Nature and animals are amazing and not enough credit is given sometimes.
Please keep us updated on this little one.
hug2 are sent to you both.
That was so sweet to hear about her riding on your basket.
Good luck.

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#151429 - 10/01/06 07:02 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Awe, please keep us updated. I am sorry though, I know that was hard for you.
Angie

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#151445 - 10/01/06 09:25 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
I've read it all over G.C. I haven't a clue how to find it now though with the changes. Every breeder I know (the well known and good ones of course) smile told me to give the Ensure to Lady and recommend it to them. I've never measured out the amount but just poured some into one of the smaller hanging dishes. The males will drink it too. The funny thing is, Lady never got chubby but her mate Pep did from drinking it! LOL Ensure doesn't work well in a bottle cause it's sticky and clogs it up making a mess. I also added a bit to the egg before scrambling it and wow do they LOVE that!

I'd love to have your recipe for the Sweet Potato pie, my suggies love fresh sweet potato! (cooked of course) smile
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#151645 - 10/01/06 08:41 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Anonymous
Unregistered


clap I am home again and there are still 2 bumps in the pouch. Princess is a little sleepy and so am I. Actually, I think this has exhausted us all.

I am so happy to find 2 bumps. I am just amazed to think this actually might work. I can not tell you how wonderful all the support and prayers are. I believe if this joey survives it is a true miracle. Thank you Thank you Thank you. thanks thanks thanks

I wish I knew what sex the little thing is. It is hard to keep thinking of it as an "it"

SugarBlossoms - I will PM you the recipe.

I will post again tomorrow if all is well, and sooner if it is not.

thanks

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#151701 - 10/01/06 10:36 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just read this entire thread it just amazes me. You are doing such a great and excellent job! I hope the little one makes it *fingers crossed*

I cant wait for an update

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#152146 - 10/02/06 09:44 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
How's the little one?
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

Top
#152153 - 10/02/06 09:55 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow. I just read this thread and i am moved. You are an amazing person. How is the miricle baby doing?

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#152177 - 10/02/06 10:49 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


There are still two bumps in Princess's pouch. I havent tried to look in again because she really doesnt like it.

"I dont LIKE it. And dont put anyone else in there. This pouch is FULL"

Seriously, she doesnt actually speak to me. She just gives me one of those looks and pushes my hand away with her nose. But I am assuming that the joey is doing well.

Princess is sleeping alot and eating everything in sight. Of course, she always eats enthusiasticlly. I started her on the Vanilla Ensure today. She tasted it and wandered off so I mixed a little strawberry yogurt in it and she drank it all up. I will offer more to her in the morning.

George and Daisy are behaving normally, so I dont think they feel that anything is wrong. Daisy's little girl is about 2 and 1/2 months oop and still in the home cage with George, Daisy and Princess. I wanted to leave her there until Princess' joey (now joeys) came oop so she could learn how to be a good momma. They are all eating, sleeping and playing as usual. I am probably the only one behaving differently. I went to the grocery store today and left Princess at home. My wrist felt naked without the usual little furry hood ornament.

Thank everyone for all the positive enery. If anyone has any advice or ideas, I would appreciate hearing it. I feel like we here on the Suggieship Enterprise are venturing where no man, woman or suggie has gone before. I have searched everywhere and no one seems to have experience with this.

I will post again tomorrow night is all is well and earlier if it is not.

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#152203 - 10/02/06 11:46 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


wow that is just amazeing, wishing for the best for you baby, and hopeing your baby over the rainbow bridge knows how much your trying to save her baby.


Ps. i would also like the sweet potato pie recipe(whenever you have time)

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#152615 - 10/03/06 07:58 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Princess will not let me look in her pouch and I do not want to force her. She has stashed the joeys way in the back of her pouch, so I can not feel the outlines of their bodies. She pushes my fingers away from her belly when I try to feel for the bumps.

I think it best to just leave her to her dinner and play and I will try again tomorrow. I feel anxious not being able to feel for the joeys and reassure myself the little orphan is still there, but I think I need to respect her wishes.

Keep praying, I think we are not out of the woods yet.

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#152621 - 10/03/06 08:20 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
I have just read the whole thread. Wow, this truly is amazing! Praying hard for this little one. He/She didn't come this far to not make it! (She has a special mommy angel watching over her.) I am so sorry on the loss of your girl. What an amazing woman you are to be able to overcome your pain to take care of this little one so quickly. I will light a candle and say some prayers. Please keep us posted.

Timmy & Gidget's mom
Mary
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#152658 - 10/03/06 09:56 PM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: pappy1264]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am so glad to hear everything is ok grin. I will keep you and your little miracle baby in my prayers gangel. I bet it is so hard going to work and worring the whole time till you get home to check on mama and the baby crazy. I'm so sorry for your loss. Its so crazy that something so good can come from something so bad. We are all just as worried as you are so be sure to keep us posted. thumbI think this joey is going to be a GC baby. We are all attached to it already lol!

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#152835 - 10/04/06 10:30 AM Re: MAY NEED HELP FOR ORPHAN [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with you wholeheartedly 100% Flippinsweet. This joey is going to belong to the whole GC clan. I find myself looking 8-10 times a day to see if she has made another post about that baby. It really is a miracle story and she does have the most uniques female to accept another females's joey and not push it out or reject it in any way. To clean it and groom it as if it were one of hers is just wonderful. The first Lhasa Apso I ever bred only had one puppy in the first litter. We called her Solo. When she was born she was breach and was not breathing. Thank goodness I was there to help. I gave the puppy CPR and revived it. I then took the puppy and Ching to the emergency clinic, I knew the puppy would need some medicine to help clear out it's lungs, I was sure it had aspirated some of the amniotic fluid into it's lungs and it had. The vet gave the puppy a shot and gave Ching a shot to make her uterus contract and deliver the placenta so we were just sitting in a room with the dogs on the table. They had a litter of chows in the office along with the mother. The chows were about 12-16 hours old. The Mother chow had sat on one of the babies and broken it's back leg. It had to be amputated. They had just finished that surgery when we got there. The puppy needed to nurse but they did not want to put the pup back in with the mother. They were afraid she would rip out the stitches they just put in. Ching's pup was nursing to I told the vet to bring her over and put her with Solo. Ching never knew the difference between one or two. She nursed and cleaned and groomed both of them just like they were both hers. When they took the chow away she looked surprised like they had taken one of her pups. So sometimes you can fool mother nature.


Edited by Suggiemama (10/04/06 10:31 AM)

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