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#15512 - 12/16/03 02:04 AM Very Confused about Neutering
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok well here's the deal. I need to get Stitch neutered ASAP! I have heard of so many ways that a male can be neutered. I have been in touch with the breeder that I bought Lilo from for a little over a year now, and she told me that she has been neutering gliders for two years. I really trust her, but this will be her first Adult male that she will be neutering and I will have to hold him while she does it. Here is the process that she does. This is how her vet "snipped" her gliders.
- She puts perscription numbing medication on the "area"
- Lets it sit for about 10 minutes or so, to it really numbs it (most of it)
- Then uses clamps to cut off the blood circulation for about one minute
The whole process takes no longer than 5 minutes and she said she has worked on hundreds of gliders. I really trust her because she is so knowledgable about gliders. I can't help but feel that this is too painful for my baby. I would have to hold him because since she has only worked on joeys she has only had to use one hand. I think it would be too painful for me to watch.

So that's one option I have, and since I know her she's not going to charge me anything.

My other option is taking Stitch to the vet. I know that most all vets put the animals to sleep that they work on because they don't want to deal with the animal squirmming around. But the breeder that I was talking about earlier (i'm not mentioning names) told me that she had seen too many gliders not wake up from the gas or shot they were given. So I am afraid of taking him to vet. Oh i'm so confused as to what to do.Please, can anyone help?

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#15513 - 12/16/03 02:43 AM Re: Very Confused about Neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sarah, I don't have to think about this one, I'd be taking my glider to the vet. For starters, it's illegal to practice medicine without a license, whether you are a vet or an m.d. Then, I wouldn't want my babies going thru that procedure with no real anesthesia. The risk of infection is greater with the breeder doing it and the risk of self mutilation is greater as well, not to mention much higher need for pain control. Or something happening while you are holding the glider and lose your hold at a critical point of the surgery.
I would suggest you read the article at the top of the page about neutering, and take it to your vet. It's the least traumatic method for neutering that I've seen or heard of, with the least problems resulting from the neutering occurring. Leaving the pompom seems to be the easiest on the glider as well as the owner!
Chey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />
PS I would imagine if you were to research this behavior, you'd find out it's illegal.

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#15514 - 12/16/03 11:36 AM Re: Very Confused about Neutering [Re: ]
BMXgirl Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 7078
Loc: USA
I have to admit, I think Id go with a properly done Neutering procedure at a vets office. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It is very rare for a Glider (or most animals for that matter) to have major complications when a neutering is properly performed in a sterile environment with the proper tools. (not to say it cant happen, but it is rare.)

Those that self neuter... have way more complications than if a qualified vet had done it in a controlled manner.

To just apply some type of numbing cream is not good enough. And to clamp the area to restrict the blood flow enough for the tissues to die... is traumatic. When you use this method, it can cause tissue damage that is not necessary. What if for some reason, the Glider is not affected by the 'numbing cream' (which can happen, or that the numbing cream only reaches so many nerves and doesnt numb the whole area) and the procedure starts and the Glider goes into shock. What will she do to save the Glider?

I think if it was me, Id go wit ha Qualified vet, that you can at least be comfortable with the fact that they will do everything possible to do the job as comfortably and as safely as possible... and in the event an emergency arises, they should be able to handle it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
(just my two cents. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

(and like Chey mentioned... for her to neuter someone else's 'property' (sadly thats what they consider animals) is illegal... If this Glider is under YOUR ownership...and not hers... she cannot legally perfom a neutering.)

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#15515 - 12/16/03 12:12 PM Re: Very Confused about Neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm jumping on the bandwagon to say "Go to a vet." for all the reasons mentioned above...plus...can you IMAGINE trying to hold down a fully awake glider while having his m-hmms cut off? I'm trying, and it sure doesn't seem like it would be an easy task. Then, he knows that it was you holding him down while this painful procedure was happening...?? I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he ended up very unhappy with his mommy...and if you ended up with a couple bite marks...Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I just can't imagine putting him through that! Another reason I would not even think about going to the breeder is that sometimes they need pain medication AFTER the surgery, which she isn't likely to have on hand with the proper doseages. Get thee to a vet!

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#15516 - 12/16/03 12:15 PM Re: Very Confused about Neutering [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Well, now here is my openion and it is based with experience.

I lost an adult glider....who was just put to sleep with a shot. I had seen the proceedure done on a couple of babies and during the proceedure I notice the little ones would squirm occassionaly. I mentioned it to the vet at the time...but I was dismissed.

Well, the same proceedure was done on an adult male....and the glider died 24 hours later due to bleeding. My vet told me afterwards...that he had a terrible time tying the initial ties due to the glider moving on the table. Because he was honest with his mistake...he continues to neuter my little ones...but now uses Isoflorin gas. As for cost...he charges the same price so money was not an issue here.

So, with that horrible scenerio in mind...my suggestion is to go with the Isoflorin gas. The glider will be out...pain free...and will not feel any pain during the procedure.

I have never lost a glider...baby nor adult to it having been gassed. And I have been having neuters done now for over three years.

As to this person doing neuters...it is legal for her to do her own gliders...but not on a glider that she does not personally own.

Personally....I prefer paying a vet and would never consider a lay person doing this procedure on any of my gliders.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#15517 - 12/16/03 12:27 PM Also confused about neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am also confused about neutering. I am going to neuter Stitch (must be a common name) after he and Lilo have a couple of babies, and my breeder says he will neuter him. I didn't ask how he would do it, but I know it's got to be painful for an adult. My vet, that I trust with all my heart, does not work with sugar gliders. I live in Lewisville. Is there anyone in the DFW area that can give me some good vets to call and research? I would really appreciate it. Now I'm terrified to even get him neutered...but I don't want babies all over the place either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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#15518 - 12/16/03 12:37 PM Re: Also confused about neutering [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Any vet can do the procedure. If your vet needs help with the procedure...information can be faxed to him from a knowledgable vet.

Since I do not know your location in Texas...you might want to open a new thread and ask for help locating a vet in your own area.

As to visit befor the neutering...suggest you print off the Sticky in this forum as to "Neutering". Take copy with you and discuss the procedure as well as post op care at home. If vet is unable to do procedure as outlined...then find a vet who will.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#15519 - 12/16/03 01:34 PM Re: Also confused about neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


My vote goes with the vet. I would never let a breeder neuter my glider if I had a male. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

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#15520 - 12/16/03 05:52 PM Re: Also confused about neutering [Re: ]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
vet! I WOULDN'T GO TO ANYONE OTHER THAT A DR. SO I CAN'T DO LESS FOR MY FURRY KIDS. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> A BARGIN IS NOT WORTH YOUR BABY. IF SOMETHING DID GO WRONG YOU COULD NEVER REST THINKING YOU DID LESS FOR YOUR GLIDER THAN YOU COULD HAVE. JUST TRYING TO KEEP YOUR SANITY INTACT TOO.
_________________________
cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx

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#15521 - 12/16/03 09:20 PM Re: Also confused about neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the advise. I completely agree that a bargain is not worth my glider's health, and I would definitely be more at peace if I found a good vet. I have plenty of time to do that since I'm waiting on them to have babies first. My husband doesn't even want to get him neutered now after reading all the horror stories. We don't have human children, just 2 gliders and 2 shih tzu dogs. They are our kids, and we spoil them rotten. If anyone knows of a good vet in the DFW area, I would really appreciate the reference. Thanks a bunch.
Christie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/gliderangel.gif" alt="" />

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#15522 - 12/17/03 02:58 AM Re: Also confused about neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello everyone.....ok so here's the deal.
It's not the price at all. I am willing to pay however much it costs. I am just afraid of him being put to sleep and not waking up <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />....That's my fear
But for the most part
You all have pointed me in the right direction and I thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I just want what's best for my suggie and I don't want him to hate me for taking him to get "snipped".

Let me just say that my breeder is the best though. She has helped me learn so much about gliders and has been there for me. So she really is a great person. Please don't think of her as a bad one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.

Ok once again, I really appreciate everyone's help. I don't know where I would be without this board. I'll keep everyone updated! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

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#15523 - 12/17/03 04:33 AM Re: Also confused about neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sarah, anesthesia is actually very safe. As long as your little guy is healthy, there should be no problems. It's done on a regular basis with these guys now and doseages etc are much better known. I've not heard of one glider being put to sleep with anesthesia that didn't wake up afterwards. He'd only be under for a very very very short time, approx 15 min or so. It's a very slight risk compared to the other procedure! It's always very difficult when something so tiny needs something like this done!
Chey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

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#15524 - 12/17/03 05:57 PM Re: Also confused about neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the comfort Chey. Yeh I just want what best for him. I really hope everything goes ok. Thanks everyone <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#15525 - 12/17/03 11:27 PM Re: Very Confused about Neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


What you described: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

- She puts prescription numbing medication on the "area"
- Lets it sit for about 10 minutes or so, to it really numbs it (most of it)


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
I don't know what topical numbing med they are using. I can tell you that EMLA that we use for baby circumcisions, shots, etc. is placed for 30 - 60 minutes to get reasonable anesthesia. With that short of a time, it might help numb the skin, but deeper structures (can I say nut here?) will get NO numbing. Nada. Ouch! We use TAC (tetracaine, adrenalin & cocaine) for stitches to sew lacerations, and it works great on the face, but lousy on the lower part of the body. It also often takes longer than 10 minutes, and I doubt a non-vet could get cocaine. 10 minutes sounds like rushing at the expense of comfort. What med are they using?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
- Then uses clamps to cut off the blood circulation for about one minute


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
I've cross-clamped many a foreskin doing circumcisions. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />(GULP!) We call the ones that only get clamped for 60 seconds BLEEDERS. The cross clamp is to mash-weld the skin edges together to stop bleeding from skin. I would be very concerned about the fact that the testicular artery and testicular vein, which originally nourished the testes, were not specifically tied off. If the glider monkeys with the wound, which in short order will have a dried, crispy crush line of dead itchy skin there, the crush could open and the vessels have no tie-off. Bleeding could result. The vessels could also retract out of the crush line and be bleeding inside the sac, and you may not see blood until a lot is lost and you later see swelling or shock-like signs. Cross-clamping the entire scrotum is more painful, riskier, and unnecessary. There is a far better way IMO.

We did our guys at 3 months OOP. The vet let me watch. Fascinating. After brief isoflorine gas, she cleaned them and made a ~3mm vertical incision on each side of the sac and popped the testicle out, then YANKED it off (officially called blunt dissection). She then tied off the vessels with a dissolving stitch and tucked the tied-off vessels back in the sac. No skin stitch or super glue. She also cut their nails, and they were under about 4-5 minutes at most. Woke 'em up and they seemed fine. Never acted sore or wrong at all. No pain med. Never played with area. $20 for each. It went extremely well. I know most people pay more, but this was simple, cheap and safe.

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#15526 - 12/18/03 01:18 AM Re: Very Confused about Neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks. I now know all of that and will be taking stitch to the vet.

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#15527 - 12/18/03 01:36 AM Re: Very Confused about Neutering [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Schlep, thanks that was quite interesting and educational!! Most vets prefer their clients parents not be watching over their shoulders!! I had the opportunity to watch once and didn't have time. Next time I will tho!
Chey

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