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#156521 - 10/12/06 04:05 PM Aflatoxins!
Anonymous
Unregistered


There seems to be a great deal of confusion about what aflatoxins are. In short they are the toxins created as a waste product by fungus. Anywhere fungus can grow there can be aflatoxins. But is is not as widespread as some people believe. It is very dangerous though.

In small amounts aflatoxins cause liver damage over time. If they get a whopping dose the animal/human will be dead within the day. Im not kidding! you remember how Diamond dog food recalled a bunch of dog food last year? well its because the food was contaminated from aflatoxin fungus. Many dogs DIED, vets did necropsies and found the cause. Birds die from eating contaminated bird seed also. The bird seed you put in your bird feeders outside, could actually be slowly killing the song birds you feed!

Here is a link to some more scientific information and documents about aflatoxins from Cornell University:

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/aflatoxin/aflatoxin.html

Understanding where alflatoxins come from, how they work, and where it can be found is the key to preventing unnessesary scare about which foods do and dont contain them. Knowing will help you recognise how to be careful in prevention, and not paranoid in ignorance.

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#156534 - 10/12/06 04:48 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the info. I had no idea what aflatoxins were. I just knew they were bad and they were in nuts. Now I know all about them!!

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#156558 - 10/12/06 05:34 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: ]
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4212
Loc: Garland, TX
I have stopped feeding my glider's nuts as treats, and only corn designed for human consumption. Do I need to stop feeding them corn altogether? If so, what can it be replaced with since the BML diet calls for peas, carrots, corn or green beans (and they only seem to eat the corn and carrots lately)?
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#156620 - 10/12/06 08:47 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: Mel2mdl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would try replacing them with a high quality vegetable. Corn is not even a veggie, it is a GRAIN! Anything they make cereal out of is a grain "corn puffs, corn flakes, rice krispy" etc. Gliders dont eat any grains in the wild at all.

Corn is often used in diets because it is a cheap way to achieve carbohydrated in a diet, thats why its in cheaper cat and dog foods. Its mostly sugar, which is why they make "corn syrup (a sugar substitute) from corn. Its why they are trying to use it as a car fuel alternative, since it is a cheap sugar it ferments easy to make alcohol. Peas are not much better, they are green but they are nutritionally the same as corn... mostly simple carbohydrates, almost no vit, protien, or other nurtients. Carrots have vit A, if you stick to any darkly colored veggie it will have higher amounts of nutrition. My gliders like red bell peppers alot, sweet potatots, cucumbers, and I mix in finely chopped cilantro, collard greens, and strawberries into their BML (judies), and they eat it all!

Dont believe me about the nutritional content? Look up the values on the internet. Corn is trash food, and gliders like it because it is sweet. I dont know how corn got into the BML diet at all... it seems, well, uniformed to use it as a veggie.

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#156623 - 10/12/06 08:51 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: ]
gliderdad79 Offline
Owner

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 15514
Loc: Long Island, NY
We have many posts in health about aflatoxins. These post contain information and awareness by members who have dealt with sugar gliders & aflatoxins first hand.


Edited by gliderdad79 (10/12/06 09:36 PM)
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#156626 - 10/12/06 09:06 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: gliderdad79]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Im sorry, gliderdad, Im not familiar with Antitoxins. What are you referring to?

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#156630 - 10/12/06 09:18 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: gliderdad79]
Anonymous
Unregistered


lol Eddie, your fingers were typing ahead of your head. We know you meant aflatoxins exclamation

GliderGuru, it's well known that nutritionally there are many veggies that have more vitamins, minerals, etc than corn and peas. Bourbon designed the BML diet such that pretty much all the nutrition the glider needs is in the staple food mix. The fruits and veggies are there mostly to provide mental stimulation and some additional calories. The problem with using bell peppers, sweet potatoes and strawberries is that the hight vitamin C causes increased iron absorption, which can be hard on a glider's liver. That's why Bourbon recently began recommending that those who are on the BML diet only use the selected veggies and fruits (corn, peas, carrots, green beans, melon, grapes, blueberries and pitted cherries) so as not to stray too far from the overall nutritional content that she tested way back when she first researched the diet, many years ago.

I do applaud you for putting so much thought into the nutritional needs of gliders. So many people just feed whatever the pet store or breeder tells them and don't take the time to think about, let alone research what is best for the animals. clap thumb


Edited by PeeperKeeper (10/12/06 09:19 PM)

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#156636 - 10/12/06 09:36 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: ]
gliderdad79 Offline
Owner

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 15514
Loc: Long Island, NY
Quote:
Im sorry, gliderdad, Im not familiar with Antitoxins. What are you referring to?


Sorry spell check over wrote Aflatoxins on me, I keep forgetting I have to add medical terms to it roflmao


Edited by gliderdad79 (10/12/06 09:39 PM)
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Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!

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#156640 - 10/12/06 09:45 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Im curious, where would they get excessive amounts of iron in their diet from? I am pretty familiar with BML diet, and there does not seem to be an over abundance of iron to be absorbed. I see where you are comming from, but I also have a hard time calling any diet proven, as BML diet is called. No glider has been on only one diet from birth till they were 15 yrs old. They just have not been around that long. So how can we be sure with any diet?
I still think there are better choices other than corn, but if you are going to use it, maybe its best to use it on the cob, fresh. that way the animal can eat the entire grain, the seed germ, the endosperm and the bran part of it, where the real nutrition resides, as well as being fresh it wont be prone to having fungal toxins!

err, off topic sorry.

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#156642 - 10/12/06 09:49 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: gliderdad79]
Anonymous
Unregistered


off_topic lol, I almost said you were typing ahead of your spellchecker, but then I thought there's not a spellchecker on GC so I changed it to "head". You must write your posts elsewhere and paste, huh?

Okay, enough about Eddie's typing skills, or lack thereof. crazy Cycy made a good post explaining more of the thought behind the recommendation of which fruits and veggies to use here . I meant to add that link in my first post, but I had to go find it.

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#156645 - 10/12/06 09:57 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
No glider has been on only one diet from birth till they were 15 yrs old.


I could be wrong, but I believe Bourbon's glider, Baybe has been on BML her whole life, and she is over 13. I had the priviledge of holding Baybe in my bra at the last SGGA. BML is considered proven because it has been around for a very long time as glider diets go, and because many generations of healthy gliders have been raised on it. Also, many of our rescuers will attest to the fact that they have received gliders with a myriad of health problems which have been "brought back from the brink" on BML.

I know it sounds like I'm just preaching and "drinking the BML Kool Aide" but to tell the truth, I have decided to switch my gliders from BML to PML. That doesn't mean I don't believe in the quality of BML as a proven diet. It's just a personal choice I am making.

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#156648 - 10/12/06 10:03 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


OOOOH whats in pml? I am a nutrition freak, I really like the topic, sorry, you can PM it to me if you need to, I dont mean to keep getting off topic.

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#156649 - 10/12/06 10:04 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Preach away Peeper!!! I'm hearin' ya!!

What ever diet those of you choose, please 'please' stick to the guidelines of that diet... do not add or take away from ANY of the proven diets. The diets themselves are no longer the "proven" diet as developed if not followed as written, and to add that those who researched and formed these proven diets went to some length to develop them to allow for the proper ca:p balance for the long term health and benefit of the Suggies.

BTW, Baybe is 14 1/2 years old now.

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#156686 - 10/12/06 11:40 PM Re: Aflatoxins! [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
And did you know, that aflatoxins were experimented with in Nazi Germany as a nerve agent? (WWII) It ONLY takes ONE exposure. It does not leave the body. It damages and continues to damage the liver of any person or animal that ingests it over time. The reason the Nazi's didn't use it as such, is that if the dose wasn't large enough, it took too long to kill it's victims-though it was invariably fatal.


Edited by Xfilefan (10/12/06 11:41 PM)
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