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#16603 - 01/15/04 04:27 PM Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal???
Anonymous
Unregistered


Anyone know why the hi-protein cereal used in the Australian glider diets was banned for use in the US ???

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#16604 - 01/15/04 08:05 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


RANDY, I've been racking my brain, trying to remember why it was banned... Must be old age setting in.

I did manage to get some a while back, I kept the Nutrition Facts off the side.. Don't know if it'll be any help, but I'll put it in an attachment......



Tom,
Rocky and Roxy & Rocky П OOP 10/20/03 & 2 OOP 1/9/04
Lil' bit, Smackers +2 OOP 11/15/03 and Squeeks


Attachments
186150-High Protein.jpg (97 downloads)


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#16605 - 01/15/04 11:28 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


maybe it related somehow with the protein source? Was it meat, veggie, soy?

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#16606 - 01/16/04 12:19 AM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Tom:

That's great!!!!!!! You are a wonder!! I wrote several emails to people in Australia trying to get that information and never had any success.

Now, if only your experiment to breed natural super mealies would work.........

Thanks a bunch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

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#16607 - 01/16/04 01:12 AM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i cant see why they banned it here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> everyone else in the world uses it???

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#16608 - 01/16/04 04:58 AM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
DeXien Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1857
Loc: England, UK
We don't have it here either.. but we don't appear to have any Gerber brands over here.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tantrum.gif" alt="" />
You would not believe how expensive it is for me to have to ship the gerber babyfood and repcal from America to here. Grr.

Well done for the info though Tom.. shall surely come in very handy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Saffron -- OOP 7th April 2003-> 8th May 2013. RIP, sweetheart.

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#16609 - 01/16/04 09:34 AM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm glad that helped some....

I just got off the phone with a representative from Gerber Foods @ 1-800-4-Gerber(437237) and they say that the Hi-Protein Baby Cereal was not banned, they just quit making it because of supply and demand....

The representative said that you can make your own Hi-Protein cereal by mixing(she gave me 2 recipes).

59 grams Soy Flour
to
41 grams Gerber Oatmeal Cereal

or

64 grams Soy Flour
to
36 grams Gerber Oatmeal Cereal



Tom,
Rocky and Roxy & Rocky II OOP 10/20/03 & 2 OOP 1/9/04
Lil' bit, Smackers +2 OOP 11/15/03 and Squeeks

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#16610 - 01/16/04 11:57 AM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


wowwy!!! now we can actually use the original lead beaters if we wanted to, the rumour all these years was that HP cereal was banned! great work mate!!! im sure quite a few people will be very interested here!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

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#16611 - 01/16/04 01:51 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


ewwwwww, soy flour? Have you ever tasted that stuff? It's really, really bad. It tastes like ground up dried beans, which is exactly what it is. I don't know if gliders would want to eat that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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#16612 - 01/16/04 02:24 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....now we can actually use the original lead beaters if we wanted to.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Maybe not.....I seem to remember seeing some posts that suggested it was not good to feed soy to gliders. Don't remember why and I may just be all wet. Anyone have any thoughts???

In any event, Tom, thanks for the information. I did some looking last night, myself. There was a big "bruha" several years ago and Gerber, as well as others, changed a bunch of the raw products for their baby foods because they contained genetically engineered materials. One of the main products they had trouble with, was [:"purple"] "SOY"!!! [/]

I find it very interesting that there have been several "myths" debunked in the past year or so about glider "facts" that have been the law for quite a while. Just goes to show that one must not always accept everything they hear as gospel and to always evaluate information critically, as there is a bunch of "malarkey" floating around out there along with the good stuff!!!

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#16613 - 01/16/04 02:37 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
There are many astute people who believe that soy products are not healthy -- many websites. There are probably as many astute people who swear by soy and soy products. Soy CAN be a source of aflatoxins, but in human grade products, that's unlikely.

I suppose that if you really want to make your own leadbeater's using that diet and the added soy helps to do that, it's fine -- if you're willing to weigh the risk of the unknown.

But I doubt that eliminating the soy was the only change from the original cereal. I think that those analytical types who like to deal with numbers in recipes will want to look at it closely...Randy....:)

Is there a way to find out the ingredient mix of the high protein cereal vs. the recipe Gerber gave Tom? Does someone have friends in Oz who could do this?
_________________________


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#16614 - 01/16/04 03:21 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


this was what i found when i looked for why soy was deemed as bad, instead of typing it all out, i'd rather give you the links themselves. also i think i read somewhere that soy was considered not good in large amounts for humans, so that in order was converted to being bad for gliders, we always use the equation of "if its not good for us, its not good for them." but many many zoo's in australia still feed the leadbeaters with high protein cereal? this is all assuming that the questioning indeed is if soy is the doubtful ingredient in the high protein cereal.
also to the many of you who use "GLIDERADE" one of the main ingredients in it is "Soy Protein Isolate". as for the soy flour that may taste bad, the honey and thr fruit in the diet would sweeten things up eh? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

http://goddessdiet.com/Reports/NYDailyNews.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/diet.fitness/06/23/soy.danger.wmd/#0


http://www.critterhut.com/sugargliderfaq.htm (look under foods to avoid)

myths and truths about soy >> http://www.westonaprice.org/myths_truths/myths_truths_soy.html

QUESTION: "What's going on with soy? First I heard that eating soy would help with hot flashes and would be good for my heart, now I've heard that eating soy is dangerous. What should I believe?"

ANSWER: You're right to be confused. New results of scientific studies showing the benefits of soy products appear almost daily. Possible reasons to use soy products are to fight heart disease, (1-4) promote stronger bones, (5-7) reduce risk of some kinds of cancer, (8-10) and to lose weight. (11) However, a number of websites and brochures have appeared saying that soy isn't good for people at all. Reasons for avoiding soy are often loosely based on scientific studies, but a lot of times, the results have been twisted quite a bit to make the case that soy is harmful. In reality, soy is neither the cure for all of the chronic diseases that plague an affluent society, nor is it a food that should be avoided. Soy foods can certainly add variety to a vegetarian diet, and they do offer some health benefits, but they should be a part of the diet--not the foundation for it.

Soybeans contain relatively large amounts of isoflavones. Isoflavones are a type of phytoestrogens, which are substances found in plants that have properties like the hormone estrogen. The levels of isoflavones in soy products are the most common reason for concerns about soy's effects on health. Recently a group of scientists from several different countries looked at more than 200 studies on soy safety and concluded that "the available scientific evidence supports the safety of isoflavones as typically consumed in diets based on soy, or containing soy products." (8)

If we look at the amount of soy isoflavones used in countries where soy is a regular part of the diet and where no harmful effects have been documented, perhaps this can give us some idea of a reasonable amount of soy. The average daily soy intake in Japan is about 65 grams per person, (12) and the average isoflavone intake is about 20-32 milligrams per day. (12-14) Higher intakes have been reported in China, where women's median isoflavone intake was 39 milligrams per day, and in Singapore, where the median intake was 35 milligrams per day. (15-16) To find out the isoflavone level of your diet, use the USDA's isoflavone database, (17) or look on packages of soy foods that you eat. Choosing 2-3 servings of soy per day will generally lead to an isoflavone intake similar to that seen in countries where soy is a regular part of the diet.

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#16615 - 01/16/04 05:06 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here are two prior threads which got into the issue of soy:

Tofu Alternatives

Re: Wombaroo (Modified) Leadbeater's Mix

If there's even a remote risk of a soy-containing product inhibiting the uptake and absorption of calcium and other necessary minerals such as zinc, magnesium, copper & iron (which are needed by gliders to maintain an appropriate health level), I would prefer to err on the side of safety by not using such a product. This is, however, my own personal choice based on the pros & cons of soy as I have researched them. Each GC member should do their own research (whether it be on soy or something else) and then make their own informed decision as to whether something is safe/healthy for their gliders.

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#16616 - 01/19/04 04:02 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
The high protein cereal that was banned was made with wheat, it was found to cause problems in babies. this was about 10 years or so back that it was banned, the nutritional content in all high protein cereals are not the same, just as we all know that all multi vitamins is are not the same, each one has their different dosagesages, the same with the cereal, which is why we not only had to change the babycereal, but had to add other things as well to come as close to what we were replaceing as possible.
as for soy, somewhere we actually have links that break down the different things in the soy products, to what would be a safe equivelent to a glider, it fell into the the .0025 range.. but thats out here somewhere as well.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#16617 - 01/19/04 04:40 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bourbon,
how did the cereal cause problems in babies, what sort of problems did it cause, and why ?

I figure you might have the answers to that.

Tanja

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#16618 - 04/06/04 05:40 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bumping to the top, in light of another thread that also deals with this issue somewhat as it shows a letter from the australian crocodile hunters zoo questioning baby chickenfood in BML. To which Bourbon replied it was replacing the missing protein in todays baby cereal...
I would like to delve further into the above question i asked Bourbon what was so bad about that high protein ceral that it caused problems in babies, and what's the difference to that ceral 10 years ago to the high protein cereal used in other countries ???
I really thought Bourbon could answer this, since apparently she had researched it a time ago.

Anyone care to help uncover that mystery ?

Tanja

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#16619 - 04/06/04 10:05 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Randy if you take a good look at the following -

(ZuPreem) Omnivore,
(ZuPreem) Marmoset canned diet,
(Exotic Nutrition) Premium Glider diet,
(Exotic Nutrition) Eucalyptus diet,
(Exotic Nutrition) Glider Complete,
Monkey Biscuits,
(Brisky's) sugar glider Accu diet,
(Ensure)
Bugs & Berries,
(Mazuri) New world primate diet,
Gliderade,
Marion Sugar Glider Feed,
(SunCoast) Sugar Glider Nectar,
Mazuri) Omnivore-Zoo Food A,

All of the above mentioned products (those that I can think of at the moment)
have 'SOY' listed as one of the ingredients!

(one or more of these soy products is a listed ingredient in the above products)

Soybean meal
Soybean flour
soybean oil
Soy lecithin
Soybean mill run
Dehulled soybean meal
Ground soybean hulls
Ground roasted soybeans
Solvent extracted soybean meal
Soya protein isolate

Personally I do use soy & have quite a large file on that topic.
For several years now, I have been using a High Protein Supplement that is made for Australian Possums, Glider's & Flying Fox & this is shipped in from Australia.

My (MSU) Michigan Exotic veterinarians were impressed with this product.

I am working on a couple of other very interesting products I think will create quite a bit of interest in the USA <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> zoological community as well as here on CG.

(I will see what info I can obtain from Oz, in regards to their baby-cereal ingredients)


Edited by POCKETS (04/06/04 10:14 PM)
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#16620 - 04/06/04 11:08 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Horray,
that is great to get some more insight.
I really want to hear more on this, cause i never quite understood the high protein cereal dismissal.

Tanja

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#16621 - 04/07/04 01:18 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok, in a post by Dude (I think it was Dude) there was a link to sugargliderfaq.com I looked on this site and found the info about soy and tofu, and the info given can be wrapped up to say "no" to tofu and soy for gliders, but that other mixtures can be tried. Does anyone know what other "mixtures" might give you the protein effect of soy/tofu? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />

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#16622 - 04/07/04 01:26 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just add more egg white. It's pure protein, I think 4 grams of protein per egg white. And egg white has absolutely no bad side effects for gliders. Why even mess with soy or tofu when egg whites are 100% safe?

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#16623 - 04/07/04 01:55 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mage, the eggwhite thing sounds great, but i still wanted to uncover the mystery of the soy being used as high protein, and i'm still waiting to hear back from another member about what constitutes the high protein baby cereals in other countries.
On another aspect, there are countries in which soy is consumed in much higher levels as here, and it hasn't produced any ill effects in that poplulation.
The controversy over soy being good or bad is broad. I imagine everything in moderation is ok.
Now the questiopn as to wether it would be naturally found in a glider's natural habitat and therefore something that might or might not be harmfull, cause a glider's sytem is not adapted to it might be another story.
Therefore i'll keep the eggwhites in consideration.

Tanja

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#16624 - 04/07/04 04:04 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


what an awesome suggestion. :-) thank you:-)

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#16625 - 04/10/04 05:20 PM Re: Ban On HI-Protein Baby Cereal??? [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Randy, hi - I know from speaking with friends in Australia who raise both sugar glider's & squirrel glider's that the high protein baby cereal has been unobtainable to them for about 8 years now.
The high protein mixed baby cereal they used was made by "Heinz", they now use Farez baby mixed cereal & the protein amount is 1.6 g.
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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