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#175823 - 11/24/06 03:18 PM birth defects ?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Can anyone tell me how often birth defects happens when there is no inbreeding involved?

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#175827 - 11/24/06 03:26 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


IMO it probably depends on the health of the parents and there genes, much like any other species

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#175832 - 11/24/06 03:42 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have a baby boy that just came oop 5 days ago today , and he is missing his front left arm . his is not an inbreed baby . He is special however. I wanted to know that way I could possibly prevent it from happening agian.
But he is still a beautiful baby boy.

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#175835 - 11/24/06 04:10 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Actual birth defects in gliders are rare since the mother has the ability to abort the baby at any time. From time to time, mothers will injure/damage their inpouch joeys though... Some times joeys will come OOP with nipped ears, tails, toes, or in the case of your little man, an arm/leg.

My best suggestion is too keep an eye on momma and make sure she is no longer nipping him. Also, if any of her future joeys come OOP with missing limbs, I would pull her from breeding.

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#176222 - 11/25/06 10:49 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
teriek Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 554
Loc: Tennessee
We have a little boy with a conspicuously short tail (only a black tip) and two missing toes. I think his momma loved him a little too agressively IP. After he got used to not as much area on that little hand to stand on, you can't even tell. I'm sure your little boy doesn't even know it's missing. You are right, he is special. Not perfect is always special.
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#176309 - 11/26/06 04:23 AM Re: birth defects ? [Re: teriek]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
With something that's missing it can be hard to say, as noted. Deformed, but there, is something else. If you read the thread in this forum on deformities (my Chronos) there's a little info in there. He has an awful lot both missing AND deformed, and there's pics. I have one girl that her mama took part of her tail before she came OOP...she has all but the black tip. I agree that a missing arm is probably mom, tho there is a very small chance of birth defect-you'll know if future joeys come out that way, or with something there but not right. Then it'll be time to retire that pair from breeding if it happens, since it's impossible to say (unless you repair them with others, rebreed, and see which has the issue)-but there are so many gliders with problems now, and in need of homes that wouldn't be my avenue of choice unless you plan to keep forever any joeys...ones with problems can have a hard time finding families.
HTH
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#177002 - 11/27/06 06:33 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


unfortunate but true.... cry

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#177108 - 11/27/06 10:54 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Are you planning on keeping this baby BBB?

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#180711 - 12/04/06 05:48 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes I am keeping him. He is such a sweet baby . Other than his little arm problem he is doing great. He is having a bit of a problem without it but I know he will be allright.
His eyes has just recently opened and o boy what a world.(lol)I will post photos soon . Thanks to everyone whom has responded to this post.Thanks so much . Christine

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#194595 - 01/02/07 05:05 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Your not the only one! My first baby, is missing three toes, it just makes me love him even more!

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#194608 - 01/02/07 05:18 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


xfilefan where is the thread in the forum about birth defects you were talking about?

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#194661 - 01/02/07 07:03 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
SweetGliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 2400
Loc: Tulsa, OK, USA
I had a little male joey back in July that came OOP who only had a small BB eyeball in his left eye socket. The vet said not sure what took place here, if it was a birth defect or damage to the actual eyeball in the growing stages and the eyeball just never got bigger. He is almost 6 months old and living with Bourbon now and doing wonderfully. Bourbon took little Jack in to help him adjust because his stress and blindness levels being so high. She said he was so stressed out by not being able to see but one sided that is took alot out of him and he just wasn't going to trust anyone. But he is doing great now, thanks to Bourbon. I spoke with Bourbon last night and she said he has gained her trust and now rides around on her shoulder. Thanks to Bourbon he will have a beautiful and wonderful life. If anyone wants to know about "One Eyed Jack" (as Bourbon named him) just ask Bourbon. I believe all joey that are born with a special problem/handicap will over come it in time with their loving owners & or people who have the patience and understanding to care for them.

One Eyed Jack also has a twin sister who came OOP with nothing wrong with her,(except she was very protective of her brother). Their mother was pulled from being a breeder and placed in a wonderful home with another female companion. They are both doing fine.

Anita heart

_________________________
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www.mysweetgliders.com

Owned by many Gliders & Cats + Wife to a Wonderful & Understanding Husband


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#194856 - 01/03/07 02:15 AM Re: birth defects ? [Re: SweetGliders]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
It's right here:

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ub...ge=1#Post101690

Apparently in this forum, you need to go all the way to the bottom, and reset to show "active topics in the last X months or year"

Guess I may need to copy that before it vanishes, and my comp. issues here at work tonight aren't helping. frown
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#196009 - 01/05/07 11:42 AM Re: birth defects ? [Re: SweetGliders]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
actually we were looking at the pic closer anita and I and after sometime in the bathroom, i noticed he does have an eye, when his trust builds i want to have him put under so we can get a closer look at his eye. here is the pic, i will continue after the pic on some things we noticed.. http://realstories.all4gliders.com/images/jack1.jpg
we noticed his stripe was crooked almost like it had pressure on that one side of his face, looking closer we also noticed that his side of the face also looked like it had pressure on it. we also noticed looking at the grey around his eye that the possibility also exists that maybe there may have a bigger eye ball than what was first thought. there seems to be a covering of extra skin over the top the eyeball as if it has a flap on it. could it be the third eye lid? we don't know. right now jack is trusting me more and more. when he first got here, his eye was pretty much closed always squinted.. he is more and more opening it wider. He does have an extreme sensitivity to light on that one side. which i find extremely odd since the eye SEEMS so small. If I look at him square on it is difficult to tell that he doesn't have an eye. he looks very normal with the exception that the eye doesn't bulge out.

the next picture was shot with a flash and is extremely bright, but it has more of a frontal view. you can see what looks at first glance of the pic like a cataract. but it is skin. also to take the above pic without the flash you can also see how he turned his head to protect that eye.

http://realstories.all4gliders.com/images/jack2.jpg
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#196011 - 01/05/07 11:51 AM Re: birth defects ? [Re: Bourbon]
Chrissy Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 1010
Loc: Franklin, MA
I would love to hear more about little Jack and if there is anything different that he needs. I have a baby that came OOP a couple of days ago that doesn't have an eyeball, it is just flat on that side..no signs of trauma. I have only been able to check him out once, since Mama is being stingy and is keeping him tucked inside, still!
_________________________
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A Cup of Sugar

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#196012 - 01/05/07 11:53 AM Re: birth defects ? [Re: Bourbon]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
also as far as inbreeding is concerned we don't know how far back the gliders go in genetics. as to whether or not someone has an inbreeded glider. or that it isn't already in the genes and problems showing up further down the line. many of the big breeders today started with a much smaller group of gliders, we can always look at ckb's numbers in the neutering formula, and see how quickly a set of parents can reach out and spread down the line.

copied from ckb's signature

1 male glider lets say he has 4 babies a year look what happens in lets say just 5 yrs of breeding

1x4= 4 add babies and dad 4+1= 5 at end of yr 1 (5)
5x4= 20 add babies and dads 20+5=25 at end of yr 2 (25)
25x4= 100 add babies and dads 100+25=125 at end of yr 3 (125)
125x4= 500 add babies and dads 500+125=625 at end of yr 4 (625)
625x4=2500 add babies and dads 2500+625=3125 at end of yr 5 (3125)

and this is only the males
add those numbers to those that are line breeding or inbreeding and we have a species that is bred out of control, with no registration means from the days of yesterday, we don't know what to expect.

edited to add:

Originally Posted By: Leyna
Actual birth defects in gliders are rare since the mother has the ability to abort the baby at any time. From time to time, mothers will injure/damage their inpouch joeys though... Some times joeys will come OOP with nipped ears, tails, toes, or in the case of your little man, an arm/leg.


also keeping in mind that more and more people are saving the rejected joeys, as we don't know what internal defects there are either.
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#196022 - 01/05/07 12:31 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: Chrissy]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Originally Posted By: Chrissy
I would love to hear more about little Jack and if there is anything different that he needs. I have a baby that came OOP a couple of days ago that doesn't have an eyeball, it is just flat on that side..no signs of trauma. I have only been able to check him out once, since Mama is being stingy and is keeping him tucked inside, still!


just as mom is protecting him, his offspring will as well,as will his future cage mate. the downsides to that is when they are alone, they don't have that protection.. teach him the best you can that you will protect him.. and that will be the most difficult thing as anita can attest to. the trust building MAY only be able to start once he separated from them as he gets older. be patient and really understanding. just know in your heart that it isn't because he is mean or doesn't like you, he is only extremely scared.

also i don't know yet if the pressure from the eye being pushed in may have something to do with his fear/pain? i do know he has come a long way with very little crabbing and biting

as for special arrangements.. none needed he will adapt to his environment. one of the things i did was use a pouch protective pouch with no blnkets to hide under leaving it open about 3 inches so that he was aware of every movement and that he could see no harm was coming from those movements. also everything was removed that he could run and hide in. i forced him to face his fears.. that included me and my hands.
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#196870 - 01/07/07 10:38 AM Re: birth defects ? [Re: Bourbon]
thefotokat Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1360
Loc: Ft. Pierce, FL
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
just as mom is protecting him, his offspring will as well,as will his future cage mate. the downsides to that is when they are alone, they don't have that protection.. teach him the best you can that you will protect him.. and that will be the most difficult thing as anita can attest to. the trust building MAY only be able to start once he separated from them as he gets older. be patient and really understanding. just know in your heart that it isn't because he is mean or doesn't like you, he is only extremely scared.


Excellent point! Gliders do bond and protect their loved ones. It serves them well, but can make bonding a bit more difficult for their human parents. Once these special needs kids do bond, it's usually a strong one as they come to depend on their humans.

Originally Posted By: Bourbon
as for special arrangements.. none needed he will adapt to his environment. one of the things i did was use a pouch protective pouch with no blnkets to hide under leaving it open about 3 inches so that he was aware of every movement and that he could see no harm was coming from those movements. also everything was removed that he could run and hide in. i forced him to face his fears.. that included me and my hands.



That's probably one of the most difficult things to do: forcing them to face their fears. Our human emotions very often step in and prevent us from doing exactly what these gliders need to move on to a happy life. I know that my emotions are a driving force for me...and that can be both good and bad...but we all have to learn how to put that aside and do what's best for that glider. The quicker we can look at things from each particular glider's perspective, the quicker we can help them find happiness and security. Gliders have a keen sense of illness and health. They must have it to survive in the wild. Often, they will no when one of their own is ill or has a disability and react to that. This is something we must remain aware of. Each time that we work w/a glider or a particular situation, we take more knowledge from that experience...no matter what the outcome. Sharing that knowledge is what moves the glider community to the next step in caring for, and preventing problems in, gliders.




Edited by thefotokat (01/07/07 10:41 AM)
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SouthEast Sugar Gliders
SESG Rescue and Sanctuary
SECARES
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#213615 - 02/06/07 03:01 AM Re: birth defects ? [Re: thefotokat]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
I want to give you all an update on Jack.. he is to the point now where there is NO crabbing or biting while in his pouch, I can rub his face while he is in my hands and I can put him to sleep, and he rides in my pocket during the day..

the only time he bites or crabs at me is when i first put my fingers into my pocket and even then he only puts his teeth on me and doesn't bite, when he realizes it is me, he stops.

my 3 year old grand-daughter can put her hand into his pouch while he is sleeping and pet him and he does take licky treats ever so gently from her fingers.

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#213629 - 02/06/07 06:47 AM Re: birth defects ? [Re: Bourbon]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Bourbon,
So glad to hear that Jack is making good progress thumb

hug2 hug2 hug2
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#213846 - 02/06/07 03:54 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Yay!! Atta boy Jack smile I'm glad to hear he's doing so well Bourbon!
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#214066 - 02/06/07 09:51 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: BeckiT]
Anonymous
Unregistered


good job. it feels soooo good when we win them over. so you must be proud.

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#214102 - 02/06/07 10:23 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


his name is great....glad to hear he's doing well

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#215362 - 02/09/07 11:11 AM Re: birth defects ? [Re: ]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
We do not hear of deformities very often. The mother does bite off limbs in the pouch. Check the age of the mother. If she is a first time mom she will do this, or a four year old mom, she will do the same. Nips on joeys can have everything to do with the age of the mom, to the health of the mom and little to do with the health of a joey. We just don't see that many, but many limbs eaten off. I had a female who nipped off my joeys ears once. I thought it was a birth defect. She never crabbed and crabbed the last month of the pregnancy. After this single baby she had another single joey and I made sure everything he had was intact. After a week, she nipped off one ear. She died three weeks later. I was out of town so I could not do a necropsy, but I know now she was not feeling well and didn't feel as if she could take care of her joeys. That is why they do away with the limbs.
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#221098 - 02/19/07 06:05 PM Re: birth defects ? [Re: Sheila]
Holly1221 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 2321
Loc: Maryland
i jsut wanted to put my 2cents in here. maybe it's not heredity or genetics. maybe, what is, just is. for example in the human world, i have a birth defect called K-T [[we'll keep it simple since i know most of you have never heard of it and will prolly never hear of it-- if you want the long version plz by all means ask]]. the doctors still can't fig out why i have it. no in my family has had anything like it so it's not hereditary or genetics. it's just something that happend. we can't place blame. it took me a long time to understand and come to terms w/ it but i get it now. i'm just glad we live in the 21st century cuz in the 13th century i'd have been placed out in the cold night to well... die.

it's harsh but there are those who think the strong survive.... time will tell guys.
_________________________
Holly & Jeff heart
Misos Phoenix Keegan Knuckles // Asa Etienne Kyrian // Cheyenne Peyton Godiva

RIP my sweet gangel babies, mommy loves you!

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#227637 - 03/03/07 09:17 AM Re: birth defects ? [Re: Holly1221]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am new to this and have a question about the mother aborting the Joey. I have a young couple and have seen signs of a baby in the mom's pouch twice, only later to see it gone and no Joey. Why would the mom do this? Do I need to have her checked out? They have never produced a baby, but the mom seems to be in fine health. She is on the same diet as my others and they have no problems. Any ideas?

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