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#17603 - 02/13/04 03:40 PM Probiotics

Anybody have any info regarding probiotics such as L. acidophilus, etc, and how they can benefit gliders specifically? Does anyone know which strains are useful and which are possibly harmful? I have seen a number of dietary supplements that implement probiotics, and their use is limited to just a couple of strains of bacteria so I am wondering whether or not all human grade probiotics would also be friendly to gliders or if there are only certain ones that can benefit them? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

#17604 - 02/13/04 04:53 PM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]

Uhhhh, forgive me but I have never heard of "probiotics". What is it? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />


#17605 - 02/13/04 05:03 PM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]

Fancy name for beneficial bacteria strains that aid in digestion and outpopulate bad bacterias that can cause disease. Like what you would find in yogurt. They help you break down food better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

#17606 - 02/13/04 05:44 PM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]


#17607 - 02/13/04 06:36 PM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Probiotics being a relatively new treatment for replacement of good bacteria in the digestive system is not yet widely used by MDs. I doubt if enough is known about their use in treating sugar gliders. After treatment with anti-biotics, a lot of glider owners give yogurt with live and active cultures to their gliders to replinish the depleted bacteria. It will probably be in the distant future if ever before probiotics are used as a source of bacteria for sugar gliders.
Charlie H
Rescue & Rehabilation

#17608 - 02/14/04 12:51 AM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]

Doesn't the Sugar Glider Exotic diet ( use probiotics in the vitamins? I believe they are human grade probiotics ... I figured you might be able to ask her about them, since she uses them in her vitamins.

I've searched and searched for the thread where this was discussed... but I have had no luck. I know she was working on her patent for those vitamins and wasn't able to give much detail on whats in them, but I know the word probiotics was used.

#17609 - 02/14/04 11:36 AM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]

Probiotics is a relatively new field of study and the use of probiotics appears to be promising. However, not enough true double-blind, controlled studies have been done as yet with respect to probiotics to determine safe dosages, what combination of probiotic micro-organisms are most beneificial, etc.

The following data is provided as a reference point on the topic:

1) </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Digestion. 2004;69(1):53-56. Epub 2004 Jan 30.

Probiotic Treatment Increases Salivary Counts of Lactobacilli: A Double-Blind, Randomized, Controlled Study.
Montalto M, Vastola M, Marigo L, Covino M, Graziosetto R, Curigliano V, Santoro L, Cuoco L, Manna R, Gasbarrini G.

Institute of Internal Medicine, Catholic University, Rome, Italy.

BACKGROUND/AIMS: Lactobacilli are used in the prevention and treatment of several diseases, but they are also known to play a role in the pathogenesis of dental caries. The
aim of our study was to evaluate whether the oral administration of lactobacilli could change the salivary counts of these bacteria compared with placebo. Moreover,
lactobacilli were administered in liquid and in capsule form to determine the role of direct contact with the oral cavity. METHODS: Thirty-five healthy volunteers were
randomized into three groups to receive lactobacilli and/or placebo for 45 days: group A (n = 14) received probiotics in capsules and placebo in liquid form; group B (n = 16)
took liquid probiotics and placebo in capsules, and group C (n = 5) used placebo in both liquid and capsule form. STREPTOCOCCUS MUTANS populations served as control.
The salivary counts of lactobacilli and S. MUTANS were measured semi-quantitatively using the CRT((R)) bacteria kit. RESULTS: Compared with placebo, the oral
administration of probiotics, both in capsules and in liquid form, significantly increases salivary counts of lactobacilli (p = 0.005 and p = 0.02, respectively). S. MUTANS populations were not significantly modified. CONCLUSIONS: The increased salivary counts of lactobacilli may indicate the need to closely monitor the dental health of patients undergoing long-term probiotics treatment, even when this treatment is administrated in a form that avoids direct contact with the oral cavity. Copyright 2004 S.
Karger AG, Basel

PMID: 14755153 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

2) </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Can vet J. 2003 Dec;44(12):982-3.

Evaluation of deficiencies in labeling of commercial probiotics.

Weese JS.

Department of Clinical Studies, Ontario Veterinary College, University of Guelph,
Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1. [][/]

Labels of 44 human or veterinary probiotics were scrutinized. Organisms were improperly identified in 9/21 (43%) human and 8/23 (35%) veterinary products. Contents
of 5/20 (25%) human and 3/17 (18%) veterinary products were misspelled. In only 9 human and 2 veterinary products were the contents adequately identified.
PMID: 14703084 [PubMed - in process]

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

3) Dr. Joseph Mercola (author of The No-Grain Diet recommends use of probiotics in his diet yet does admit that One Third of Probiotics, "Good Bacteria" Products Like Acidophilus, Found to be Worthless . You can read about it HERE

4) good info. on Probiotics are be found HERE

5) </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Scand J Gastroenterol Suppl. 2003;(239):15-23.

Probiotics in gastroenterology: indications and future perspectives.

Goossens D, Jonkers D, Stobberingh E, van den Bogaard A, Russel M, Stockbrugger R.

Dept. of Gastroenterology, University Hospital Maastricht. The Netherlands.

Nowadays. there is a growing interest in probiotics as a safe way of changing the intestinal bacterial flora. Probiotics may have potential in several gastroenterological
conditions, especially when the intestinal flora has been disturbed. Most scientific evidence is available for diarrhoea patients treated with Lactobacillus GG, Lactobacillus reuteri or Saccharomyces boulardii. Meta-analyses have shown an overall reduction in the risk of antibiotic-associated diarrhoea during treatment with probiotics, and benefits have also been demonstrated for patients with rota-virus-associated diarrhoea. Patients with
inflammatory bowel disease, an inflammatory disorder characterized by a change in the intestinal flora, are another important target group for which probiotics may be
beneficial. It has been claimed that in ulcerative colitis and Crohn disease patients, lactobacilli, S. boulardii and Escherichia coli reduce relapses. but most studies were not
placebo-controlled. A reduction in relapses has also been demonstrated in pouchitis patients treated with a multispecies probiotic. Irritable bowel syndrome might be another clinical indication for probiotic therapy, but results of clinical trials performed in these patients are inconsistent. Additionally, probiotics may improve lactose absorption. Helicobacter pylori eradication & constipation. Finally, in animal models of colorectal cancer, treatment with probiotics reduces the prevalence of this disease, and in humans the amount of genotoxic substances in faeces has been reduced. In conclusion, the results of studies on the effects of probiotics in gastrointestinal conditions are encouraging. but well-designed placebo-controlled studies are warranted before recommendations for therapeutic or preventive use can be given. Many issues still have to be resolved, including optimal dose and duration of treatment, selection of and differences between the several available probiotic strains, and, importantly, their mechanisms of actions have to be elucidated.

PMID: 14743878 [PubMed - in process]

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

As noted, recent studies of probiotics are promising with respect to probiotics being used as an alternative to conventional therapy with immune suppressive drugs in patients with inflammatory bowel disease or dietary hypersensitivity, in cancer patients, etc. However, there are only a few results available on the immune modulating effects of probiotics in human and veterinary medicine and further appropriate double-blind, randomized and placebo-controlled studies are needed to clarify the mechanisms by which probiotics work.

There are two schools of thought with respect to the use of probiotics:

a) that probiotics should be used as a regular, daily regimen to maintain health in humans and animals.

b) that probiotics should be used only in humans/animals with certain acute and/or chronic health conditions.

I tend to lean toward the latter for a couple of reasons:

A) As a health professional, I have too often seen people use vitamin/mineral supplements or other medications inappropriately. They will ignore the appropriate dose and take higher doses than recommended. Their reasoning is that if one pill is good, then two must be/will work better. They fail to understand the implications: overdose and/or an increased risk of serious side effects. With probiotics becoming the new trendy health thing, people will be tempted to take more than the recommended dose rationalizing that it's totally safe.

B) Not enough long-term appropriate studies have been done to determine potential serious side effects. All that is presently known is that taking probiotics orally long-term causes increased salivary counts of lactobacilli which impacts on dental health & this occurred in a matter of only 45 days. What other side effects of consequence might exist if probiotics are used as a daily regimen that only long-term (minimum of 1-2 years) properly controlled studies might uncover?

C) Might not a daily regimen of probiotics have a paradoxical (opposite) effect? Many medications taken long-term are known to have such paradoxical effects. Additionally, might a daily regimen of probiotics in healthy humans/animals (whose immune systems have the ability to fight off normal disease scenarios) actually compromise their immune systems by making their immune systems dependent on the probiotics so that if a variation of a bacteria were to occur, the immune system would have difficulty in fighting it off ? Look at the current situation with respect to antibiotics. For decades, antibiotics were seen as such a panacea & so over-precribed that humans and animals alike have built up resistances to the more common antibiotics today because the bacterias in their systems have been able to compensate/mutate in order to defeat the antibiotics.

My purpose here is to make people think about/research the topic of probiotics rather than just jumping on the bandwagon and deciding probiotics is the new panacea for maintaining good health. The same was thought about soy and organic foods when they first became trendy. Only after many years of studies/research was it determined that some serious issues existed with soy and organic food products. I would hate to see the same thing happen with respect to probiotics.

Edited by Glideroo (02/15/04 04:57 AM)

#17610 - 02/14/04 11:57 AM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]
PepPony Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 2088
Glideroo--Excellent post! It was well thought out, organized, and well written. It flowed gracefully with good information. I was going to add to it but there is really nothing to add except for maybe this bit of trivia. Having inserviced and discussed drug therapies with OBGs and GYNs, sometimes we use to get into discussions of alternative therapies. Some of these physicians were more homeopathic in their course of treatment of certain conditions. I knew from my discussions with Gastroenterologists and Internal Medicine physicians that yogurt was sometime used concomitantly with other oral systemic medications for the treatment of Esophageal Candidiasis. To my surprise and maybe by demand from more homeopathic centered patients, the GYNs were prescribing yogurt tampons for the treatment of vaginal candidiasis as a first course of therapy. So you see how far I had to dig in the back rooms of my brain to come up with a little known or trivial fact to add to your post. That's all I could come up with!

Great job on one of the best composed posts I have seen at GC! The way it was written as well as the content contained therein was tremendous!

#17611 - 02/14/04 12:15 PM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]

I was reading the post and this may be a stupid question but I use probiotics on my rats and ferrets is this the same as your talking about?
My vet said it was good to use. It is powder form and you put it in water.
Marshalls ferrets has one put out and I think there are some off brands.
I just read the bottle and it says it is 100% safe for ferrets and other small animals. I have NEVER gave it to my gliders because I never thought about it.

Lactibacillus acidophilus fermantation product, Lactobacillus casei fermentation product,Bifidobacterium bifidum fermentation product, Streptococcus faecium fermentation product, Aspergillus oryzae fermentaion product, Yeast, Torula, Yucca product, Dried milk, Dextrose

#17612 - 02/14/04 03:32 PM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]

Glideroo, all I can say is YOU ROCK! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> That gave me tons of info! Very good post! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

#17613 - 02/15/04 04:51 AM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]

PepPony: since you bring up the issue of Vaginal Candidiasis, here's an abstract summary you might be interested in:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Isr Med Assoc J. 2003 Nov;5(11):767-9.

Vaginal colonization by orally administered Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG.

Colodner R, Edelstein H, Chazan B, Raz R.
Clinical Microbiology Laboratory, HaEmek Medical Center, Afula, Israel.

BACKGROUND: The lack of lactobacilli in the vagina of postmenopausal women due to estrogen deficiency plays an important role in the development of bacteriuria. In the last few years the use of lactobacilli for the prevention of genitourinary infections has been explored using different probiotic strains. OBJECTIVES: To evaluate the vaginal colonization by Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG in postmenopausal healthy women following oral administration of the bacteria in a yogurt base for 1 month, as a first step in evaluating the potential probiotic role of LGG in the prevention of recurrent urinary tract infections. METHODS: One or two doses per day of yogurt containing 10(9)
colony-forming units of LGG were administered orally to 42 postmenopausal healthy women for 1 month. Vaginal and rectal swabs were cultured at the beginning and end of
the study. RESULTS: At the end of the study the vaginas of only four women (9.5%) were colonized with LGG, at a very low number of bacteria, despite the fact that the
gastrointestinal tracts of 33 women (78.6%) were colonized. There were no significant differences between one or two doses daily. CONCLUSIONS: LGG should not be considered as a probiotic agent in urinary infections since it does not attach well to the vaginal epithelium.

Publication Types:

Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 14650098 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Luna: not all probiotics are created equal. The really topnotch ones are rather expensive (approx. $65.00 or more for a 30-day supply). Read the info. provided on Probiotics HERE very carefully as it provides some great info. about what needs to be considered when buying probiotics. It holds true whether for human or animal use. Take the info. provided from the link & use it as a basis to formulate questions you can ask of your vet and Marshalls with respect to Marshalls probiotic product. Your vet should be able to answer questions about it if he's recommending the Marshalls probiotic product. If he can't answer your questions, then you need to consider why he would be recommending a product he has not adequately researched. I must admit that I tend to be a bit leary of Marshall statements that their products are 100% safe. I myself have two ferrets and quit using Marshalls Ferret food over two years ago when I learned that it contains either BHT or BHA (I don't recall which but both are known carcinogens). I quit using it because my older ferret was losing weight/hair. Since then I have been using a human-grade mix of a particular ferret food and dry catfood called Wellness . Interestingly, within a month of taking my ferret off of Marshalls and putting her on the new food regimen, she gained weight and no longer exhibited hair loss. Today, that ferret is seven years old and in great health. Not sure the same would be true if I hadn't changed her diet regimen. As for the ingredients you listed, they are fairly standard ones considered necessary for maintaining appropriate intestinal flora for health purposes but again, you need to get certain questions answered in order to determine whether the particular probiotic product you're using actually contains any live bacteria as more than a third of the powdered products tested by Belgian biologists/researchers contained no living bacteria. Even if the product contains living bacteria, you need to know how many million per millileter, was the product processed using centrifugation or ultrafiltration (not recommended as these processes remove the valuable supernatant, resulting in an inferior product). There are several other key questions you also need answered in order to determine whether the probiotic you're using for your ferrets/rats has any real value. The link I listed will provide you with the questions you need answered to determine if your probiotic is doing the job it was intended for or not.

#17614 - 02/15/04 09:39 AM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]

Thanks Glideroo!
This was a bottle I bought some time ago I do not feed any of my ferrets Marshalls or buy products of Marshalls since they are a mass ferret breeder "farm". And all but one of my ferrets are rescues.
I also have them on chicken and rice ferret food and cat food mixed in.
I will make copies of the links you gave and take them to my vet. He has never told me to give it to my gliders thank goodness!

#17615 - 02/16/04 12:42 AM Re: Probiotics [Re: ]

Interesting study about using the yogurt bacterial for vaginal health, but who did that study? Anyone with common yeast infections knows that you don't eat the lactobactilli...... you put it, you know.... where it will help.


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