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#18016 - 02/24/04 05:21 PM Clostridium!
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've seen a couple mentions of clostridium on the board, but not a whole lot of info on what it is, what causes it, and what can be done about it...

Well, as most of you know, Kai has been sick a couple times in the past, but we never got an actual diagnosis. We figured it was something bacterial because nothing helped until we tried Baytril and Flagyl on him. Well, he got sick again last week, and we decided to do the one thing we hadn't done before, which is a culture and sensitivity. (We didn't do it before b/c the vet said it wouldn't show anything if he didn't have diarrhea...) The results came back today and it is clostridium. So I did a little research and came up with some info about clostridium that specifically pertains to my case (Kai), but that I thought would be important to share with you guys.

First of all, there are different strains of Clostridium, two of which cause tetanus and botulism <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> The vet said they found 2 strains in Kai, but I'm not sure which two...I'll get more details tomorrow.

Causes:

http://www.cehs.siu.edu/fix/medmicro/clost.htm
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
C. difficile: Pseudomembranous colitis (PC) results predominantly as a consequence of the elimination of normal intestinal flora through antibiotic therapy. Symptoms include abdominal pain with a watery diarrhea and leukocytosis

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

http://medic.med.uth.tmc.edu/path/00001496.htm
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
C. difficile
Clostridium difficile is a motile bacterium that can be part of the natural intestinal flora. Infection can occur through the use of broad-spectrum antibiotics which lower the relative amount of other normal gut flora. When this situation occurs, C. difficile proliferates and infects the large intestine. The bacterium then releases two enterotoxins that destroy the intestinal lining and cause diarrhea.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

http://www.animal-haven.com/ConstDia.htm
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stress can cause an overgrowth of clostridium, a naturally occurring bacteria in the stomach and intestine.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Prevention:

http://www.avianbiotech.com/diseases/clostridium.htm
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Minimize stress and overcrowding; Provide proper ventilation; Prevent malnutrition with a proper diet.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Treatment:

http://www.anmldr.com/PalmVet/SA-18-7-8-9.htm#clostridium
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Ampicillin, amoxicillin or metronidazole given for 7 days will resolve most acute cases. Animals with chronic disease may require antibiotics for several weeks. The addition of fiber to the diet also appears to help resolve and perhaps prevent reoccurrence. Soluble fiber, in particular, increases volatile fatty acids in the colon, thereby decreasing colonic pH which tends to inhibit proliferation and sporulation of C perfringens.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

And one last bit of info... </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Clostridium perfringens - This organism is capable of producing type (A, B, C, D, and E) toxins that can causes necrosis of
the surrounding tissue including muscular tissue. The bacteria themselves produce gas that leads to bubbly deformations of the infected tissue. C. perfringens is capable of necrotizing intestinal tissue and can release an enterotoxin that may lead to severe diarrhea.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> which, if you remember, sounds an awfully lot like what happened to Kylie...

So...make SURE if you have a sick glider, you get a culture and sensitivity run. Having a diagnosis is half the battle!!

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#18017 - 02/24/04 05:39 PM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Let me get this straight... It looks like the cause of this is from taking antibiotics that eliminate the normal intestinal flora but the treatment is to take MORE antibiotics?????

I hope that your baby is fine now that the diagnosis has been made!!!

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#18018 - 02/24/04 05:50 PM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Traci...it looks like that CAN be the cause of ONE of the strains...that's why it's usually suggested that you feed yogurt after giving antibiotics, because the yogurt replenishes the GOOD bacteria in the digestive system.

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#18019 - 02/24/04 06:06 PM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Amie there was recently a post by big ern about the use of probiotics. Although I am not strong on their use, in this case you might ask your vet about their use. Also the Stoneyfield yogurt is supposed to be a better grade of yogurt for supplimenting with live bacteria cultures.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#18020 - 02/24/04 10:36 PM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I havent had any experience with this in gliders, but this has happened to me before. I was on an antibiotic after surgery, and apparently if you're on them too long they start destroying the good bacteri in your body allowing the others to take over.

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#18021 - 02/24/04 11:05 PM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Amie, does your baby have toys in with her that would come apart in small pieces? I noticed in one of the links you posted it had said something about that as being one of the things that could cause this. Other then that I really could not see anything Else there that you might have missed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. All the other causes are pretty basic and normally things we watch out for already <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> I guess we will have to wait and see what the vet finds. I wish we had a smiley graemlin with a thinking hat on <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I sure do have mine on <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Please let us now what he says.

I am also glad that everything turned out okay for your <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> baby.

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#18022 - 02/25/04 01:03 AM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3058
Loc: u.s.a.
im a big beleivver in yogurt i giv e mine daily yogurt like charlie said i use stoneyfield they get about half tsp. daily. darcy lived on yogurt and ensure when he was very sick. and thats all that kept him alive.

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#18023 - 02/25/04 01:08 AM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


the gliders angel,

Is this a brand of yogurt in your area or do you special order it? I have never heard of this brand before this is why I ask.

Thanks, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#18024 - 02/25/04 01:40 PM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Targeted antibiotics can be used to reduce the amount of clostridium in the glider. Too much yogurt on a regular basis can cause runny stools. Keeping your cages, toys, food, and water devices clean and sanitized regularly is a good preventative. I have a glider have this which was caused by overdosing my gliders on baytril ( the vet made an error writing the prescription). This eventually weakened one joey to the point where the infection she originally had caused sever neurological damage and seizures and I had to put her down.

Ushuaia

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#18025 - 02/25/04 02:13 PM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


My little sister had htis happen to her when she was a year old... she was in the hospital for a week.. i can't imagine what it can do to a glider.

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#18026 - 02/25/04 09:51 PM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3058
Loc: u.s.a.
boots. to answer your question. i buy stoneyfield farms in most supermkts. if they dont have it a local health food shop has it. but i find it in most supermkts. usually on an upper shelf by the yogurts. i also use yoplait custard style they love strawberry flavor. but the yoplait in the custard only has a higher calcium cotent than the other yoplaits. or dannon or others thats why i buy that one only. and most gliders dont finish all their bml at least mine dont always eat it all.

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#18027 - 02/27/04 02:33 AM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
After discussing this with an Aussy wildcare friend she thought that perhaps we need to know that -
( 1 ) capsule of acidophillus equals( 22 )tubs of yogurt.
Carers might be better to use 1 capsule of the powder in either each bottle of the formula or sprinkled on fruit.
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#18028 - 02/29/04 01:44 AM Re: Clostridium! [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wouldn't there be a chance of overdosing them if it is equal 22:1 compared to yogurts? How much is needed so as not to overdose?

Ushuaia

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#18029 - 02/29/04 10:39 AM Re: Clostridium! [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
I would imagine that the answer to that is yes they could overdose & the amount prescribed would depend on each individual case.
The <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s digestive systems are not totally reliable on gut flora & I would advise <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> caretaketers to speak with their veterinarians in regards to a prescribed amount of the acidophillus powder capsule.

(I was speaking with her about the Clostridium topic)
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#18030 - 03/15/04 02:17 PM Update on Kai... [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Update:

Well, 2 weeks after the original culture (and after 7 days of treatment w/ Baytril & Flagyl), we did another culture, and it came back negative for Clostridium (or anything else). He has also been gaining weight, from 82 at the second vet visit (about 2 weeks ago) to 87 a week later here at home, to 92/93 last night!

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#18031 - 03/19/04 02:37 AM Re: Update on Kai... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"purple"] Amie:

Hi... Well Rocket Man's C&S showed negative for anything on Rocket Man, but I really believe he must have had this... his bowels were runny a bit the night b4 and very smelly, all his tests came back negative for any infection, but he's been on a combo of batryl/metrodiazonal, and he's 90% better!!!!!

I am concerned tho... you or someone mentioned for 7 days... the dr. originally told me once a day for 3 weeks... I'm sure once I call him tomorrow he will tell me to discontinue it, but what do I do if he's getting so much better... do you think 3 weeks is too long? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> [/]

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#18032 - 03/19/04 11:38 AM Re: Update on Kai... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm glad Rocket Man is doing so well! That's great! About the meds, 2 weeks is really the longest I've ever heard of giving them...and that's really a "just in case" measure...I'm not sure if anything bad could happen with giving them for 3 weeks or not...

It is strange that they didn't find anything...but I guess the important thing is that he's getting better! Was the C&S run before the meds were given?

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#18033 - 03/20/04 09:43 AM Re: Update on Kai... [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Wow, interesting thread! Glad to hear Rocket Man's doing better!
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#18034 - 03/22/04 01:43 PM Re: Update on Kai... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"purple"] Amie,

No meds had been given him except the Neocalgucon (sp?)
So other than that it was a clean sample. The vet said it had to have been one of those false negs so to continue the meds as long as he's doing better. So I guess I will! Last night tho he worried me as he didn't want to wake up and play until 3:30am, But then he was as alive as ever! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Katty:

Thanks!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> [/]

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