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#18228 - 02/28/04 10:12 PM Pa Laws
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello
Well I am lost.
I have been told that is ok to own a glider in Pa. But you can't Sell Or Buy them. I have also heard that they are Flat out illegal to have. Can someone please clear this up for me. Thankyou
Matthew <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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#18229 - 02/28/04 10:56 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"CC6699"] Unfortunatly there is no clear answer for you. It is just safe to say that Sugar Gliders are illegal in PA.

The story changes every time you ask someone from the PGC. They don't know what they are talking about and their employees aren't on the same page.

So for the glider's sake, I would not own a sugar glider in PA. You can be told they are allowed and then the next day it could be taken away. [/]

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#18230 - 02/28/04 11:42 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thus far, the Pennsylvania courts have made rulings that allow sugar gliders in that state. The exotic pet situation there has been confusing and a matter of considerble debate. According to Pennsylvania Game & Wildlife Code - Title 34, sugar gliders are illegal, at least as interpreted by the Pennsylvania Game Commission. However, according to the Pennsylvania Agricultural Code Amended Domestic Animals Act of 1996, Act 100, sugar gliders are legal. So, Pennyslvania has had a set of conflicting laws.

Caught in the middle of all this, is Sandy Reynolds, who has had her exotic pets conficated by the Pennsylvania Game Commission. Interestingly, even though the Pennsylvania Game Commission had declared sugar gliders to be illegal in Pennsylvania, they have allowed Reynolds to legally keep her sugar gliders. This went to court, and the judge ruled in Reynolds favor saying Title 34 did not apply since it did not specifically list her animals. Reynolds then went to court to have her animals returned, and another judge also ruled in her favor, though I haven't heard yet if the animals have been returned to her.

Since the Pennsylvania court have already ruled that Title 34 does not apply, I'm not aware of any laws that make sugar gliders illegal in Pennsylvania.

Here are some links from this forum about Sandy Reynold's case:

Link #1

Link #2

Link #3

Also, the ACLU is considering a lawsuit against the Pennsylvania Game Commission:

ACLU Considers Lawsuit Against PGC

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#18231 - 02/29/04 12:38 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


how did i miss that title 34 was ruled illegal???? i have talked to several people in pa and they still say they aren't sure of the legality??

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#18232 - 02/29/04 07:48 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Pennsylvania Judge Lawrence E. Wood made the ruling on December 23, 2003. You can view it on Sandy's website here:

Sandy's Website

Click on "Judge Says..." in the left hand menu bar - the judge's ruling was scanned into a PDF file. Here'a an excerpt of what Judge Wood said:


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
In my view, the Game Commission's regulations [Title 34] stretches the definition of "exotic wildlife" beyond permissible boundaries.

The Game Commission would have all cats and dogs (with the exception of house cats and licensed dogs) considered "exotic wildlife", whereas the statute goes to the trouble of spelling out only animals which, to my untutored eye, appeared to be generally considered large and dangerous in their wild state.

The long and short of it is that I cannot even say that these animals of Ms. Reynolds were "exotic wildlife", let alone that they were or now are "contraband".

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

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#18233 - 02/29/04 10:26 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


So far what I have heard from people in PA that contacted the PGC recently is that you are allowed to own them if they are from a breeder in PA, you are not alloud to import them into the state. We will have to see what they say next week though.

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#18234 - 03/01/04 09:29 AM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


That was the "assumed" law before all this so it is nice to know it is back to normal!!

I saw that update too Rocket, but I have been talking to PA'ers and they are still saying to be cautious and they are being cautious.. so I was just wondering if you knew more than I did but I knew that.. thanks.

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#18235 - 03/21/04 06:57 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
petsugargliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1532
Loc: Andover, Ohio
I have had 3 people from PA email me about purchusing gliders. I don't want to sell them to them with all of this going on, does anyone know for sure what is going on??
_________________________
Jennifer Chandler
Owned by sugar gliders for over 14 years
Pet Sugar Gliders

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#18236 - 03/21/04 09:19 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


What I do know is that if gliders or any exotic animal is legal to own they must be purchased in PA, from a breeder in PA. You are not alloud to import or export any exotics in the state of PA with out special permits. I have heard from many people if you go by these guide lines they will let you have Gliders...I would still be weary because I havent seen anything in wrtting. I live right out side Philly and I get people calling me all the time also, PA's fines are pretty stiff so I just stay away from that state. Hope this helps Christian

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#18237 - 03/21/04 11:30 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
petsugargliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1532
Loc: Andover, Ohio
Thanks very much! I feel the same way. I just wish that I had a real answer, LOL I guess there is no such thing when it comes to PA laws. I don't want anything to happen to any of my babies.
_________________________
Jennifer Chandler
Owned by sugar gliders for over 14 years
Pet Sugar Gliders

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#18238 - 03/23/04 08:14 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"CC6699"]You know, this law is kinda stupid considering they have chased out pretty much anyone who wants to own a sugar glider in PA... how you gunna get a glider from a state that was afraid to own sugar gliders in the first place?? Where the heck you gunna find a breeder?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> [/]

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#18239 - 03/23/04 08:52 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Angels....thats why they did it that way. If they cant tell you you cant have one their fail safe is to tell you you have to get one from in the state, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> its odd you know how easy it is to get a gun in PA? My frined and I were just at the gun show, his license a credit card and about 15 minutes he walked out with a hand gun, go figure, God fobid you have a surgar glider. Its a very backwards state, alcohol and gasoline are very expensive their too because they tax the .... out of it so all the people come to Jersey to get gas and booze!

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#18240 - 03/23/04 08:58 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"CC6699"] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> LOL everyone goes to Jersey to get gas. You hit the last gas station in jersey on the palisades going into NY and the whole entire state is at that gas station <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> [/]

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#18241 - 03/25/04 10:20 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
What I do know is that if gliders or any exotic animal is legal to own they must be purchased in PA, from a breeder in PA. You are not alloud to import or export any exotics in the state of PA with out special permits.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Note that the Pennsylvania judge has already ruled that sugar gliders are not exotic animals in the state of Pennsylvania. So, some of these restrictions no longer apply.

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#18242 - 03/25/04 10:51 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
how did i miss that title 34 was ruled illegal????

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Title 34 wasn't ruled illegal. Rather, the judge ruled that the PGC had gone beyond the permissible bounds of Title 34. Title 34 was intended to apply only to large, potentially dangerous animals such as bears, coyotes, lions, tigers, leopards, jaguars, cheetahs, cougars and wolves. Obviously, these are all large carnivores. It was not intended to be applied to the smaller and non-threatening Pocket Pets.

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#18243 - 03/25/04 10:51 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
how did i miss that title 34 was ruled illegal????

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Title 34 wasn't ruled illegal. Rather, the judge ruled that the PGC had gone beyond the permissible bounds of Title 34. Title 34 was intended to apply only to large, potentially dangerous animals such as bears, coyotes, lions, tigers, leopards, jaguars, cheetahs, cougars and wolves. Obviously, these are all large carnivores. It was not intended to be applied to the smaller and non-threatening Pocket Pets.

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#18244 - 04/03/04 01:52 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
So far what I have heard from people in PA that contacted the PGC recently is that you are allowed to own them if they are from a breeder in PA, you are not alloud to import them into the state. We will have to see what they say next week though.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Christian,

Could you confirm if the PGC is still imposing Title 34 restrictions on animals that the Pennsylvania courts have ruled are exempt from Title 34? This would be useful information to pass onto the ACLU for their lawsuit they are considering against the PGC. Have the people in Pennsylvania whom you are talking to contact the ACLU.

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#18245 - 04/04/04 03:18 AM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I will call my cantact at the PGC this week and relay the info I get but the problem is that they dont want to go on record saying anything...just from my work here in NJ I believe that they are rewriting the laws in PA and will soon have laws that arent so easily contestable in court.

I have offered my services to anyone that lives in PA and want to get Gliders ligalized, unfourtunetly I cant do this myself because I dont live their. I assure you that anyone that contacts me will I will be discret..Id rather see the laws changed then someone needlessly charged if they are treating their animals properly, I am also willing to work with the ACLU.

Will make another post this week with the info I get and any in PA that wants my help send me a PM.. thanks chris

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#18246 - 07/24/04 01:52 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Any updates on this?

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#18247 - 08/12/04 02:13 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm rather curious myself. And Christian- what about New Jersey? What are the regulations in NJ? I haven't seen anything about legality in NJ anywhere which is a bit odd. I live in South Jersey now but I'll most likely be going somewhere in PA for college so :< The laws better change before then... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" />

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#18248 - 08/23/04 02:34 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


PA is finally moving in the right direction HR 797 Now PA waits till December 31, 2004.

From my understanding you must have a license from the NJ Fish and Wildlife to have gliders.

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#18249 - 08/24/04 12:46 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: queenduck]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Beautiful. It's a start.

This is only a resolution to study and recommend. The resolution would need to be passed by the House, and then studied by the various agencies (will probably involve public hearings, so that's where the individuals in PA should be vigilant!), then recommendations made by the various agencies.

Then those reprentatives would need to write another bill incorporating the recommendations. The House would again need to vote on it (and also the Senate, and the bill would eventaully need to be signed by the governor).

It's a GREAT start, and clearly has the protection of the animals at heart. Bravo for the authors of the resolution, and for whoever has been talking to them....
_________________________


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#18250 - 08/28/04 12:27 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sugar gliders are legal in NJ...the only thing they want you to get is an exotic animal permit for $10 and that covers as many animals as you want. You get the permit when you purchase the animal in the pet store or from a breeder. This is the same permit for snakesfrogs and lizards...its just the way our state makes a few extra dollars. Now since I sell gliders in NJ I had to get licensed from the state as a pet store, even though I dont have one. If I sell a glider to you I will give you the permit at the same time. Chris

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#18251 - 09/11/04 05:31 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I read on another site that gliders are legal in Pennsylvania now, but not for import/export. Does anyone have any further information/updates?

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#18252 - 09/13/04 04:26 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yeah, that's pretty much how it is... saying that you can not buy gliders in another state and have them brought here or sell gliders from PA to another state... but if you buy them from a breeder in PA, who is USDA licensed then you're ok... its all pretty sketchy, however some officials are working on clearing things up.

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#18253 - 09/26/04 03:53 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


If that's the case, are there any PA breeders out there?? Feel free to PM me!

My partner and I live in Bucks County, PA and are interested in getting a pair of gliders, we've done our research, read the books and sites and started to look for a breeder when I came across this dismaying thread! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" /> after I had read elsewhere that they weren't illegal in PA.

Maybe we should just forget about it, or wait til the new year to see how this study concludes? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

But it does seem from what I've read that they ARE legal in PA and possibly not even considered exotic animals... so there really shouldn't be an issue to begin with...

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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#18254 - 10/04/04 01:07 AM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i also live in PA and im looking to maybe get a sugar glider in the next 6-8 months. i go to school on VA and live here for over half the year. Could i just buy one in VA. How strictly is this really taken with the whole buying from bredders in PA thing. WIll they really know? I will be going back and forth a lot.

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#18255 - 12/17/04 05:40 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Im in Pa and if you get any more info, or need any help, please PM me. Thanks.

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#18256 - 01/07/05 10:22 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: queenduck]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I was wondering if anyone knew how to get an update on house resolution 797, I've tried searching the web for the report that was due 12/31 --- maybe it isn't to be made public yet/ever?

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#18257 - 01/07/05 10:30 PM Re: Pa Laws [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, to answer my own question...

I think the report will be posted here: http://jsg.legis.state.pa.us/STAFFSTD.HTM
But seems it is either not done, or hasn't been posted yet.

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