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#19403 - 04/02/04 11:09 AM Paddy's preliminary report.....
Anonymous
Unregistered


According to the preliminary report Paddy was a healthy joey until a day before he died. There are no congenital defects, organs all looked healthy and appropriate size, no fluid in his lungs, no evidence of infection anywhere (lab results are not in yet), no indication of slow starvation or prolonged dehydration.

The report did show no milk in his stomach or intestines, which there should have been, of course. She said whatever caused him to stop eating was recent. I was wrong about the milk being there. It looked and felt to me like it was on Thursday night, but the necropsy showed none. I feel terrible that I didn't act on my suspicions on Thursday and convinced myself he was just a sleepy baby.

I'll update again when the lab results come back.

I did do a comparison weight between him and the triplets to satisfy my own curiosity. I weighed him at 13.3 gm at 13 days. By comparison at 13 days:
Wynken - 13.5
Blynken - 14.0
Nod - 15.1

If Paddy stopped eating 24 hours before, he would have stopped gaining and probably lost ground, so I took their weights at 11 days:
Wynken - 12.2
Blynken - 12.8
Nod - 13.2

Being a male with no competition I would have expected him to match if not exceed Nod's size, which he was doing until whatever caused him to stop eating. So the mystery only deepens.

For you breeders out there, I have a question. I know mothers can have joeys of slightly different ages in pouch at the same time. Do any of you know of a case where the difference has been as much as 6 weeks?

I am asking because I counted back to when Paddy was conceived, around Dec. 25th give or take a day or two. Nod was neutered on Jan. 14. If it takes 6 to 8 weeks for the sperm count to go down she could have conceived again as late as March 10th. On the outside chance she did, that joey would be born within a few days of the 26th, the day Paddy died. I'm wondering if she quit allowing him to feed to protect a new joey, because when I checked her pouch for signs of infection the morning after he died, her pouch was pinched shut and she didn't want me messing with it, but it was clean and dry, very normal looking. When I felt on the surface she didn't appear to have any pain, but there was a slight bump on one side. I thought it was still slightly swollen from being full from not nursing Paddy since he died. Now I'm wondering. I have an appointment for Delta to have her checked for infection, although there is still no sign of it. I can't tell if the bump is any bigger or not.

I'd appreciate any thoughts all you who breed gliders have on this. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/gliderangel.gif" alt="" />

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#19404 - 04/03/04 04:06 PM Re: Paddy's preliminary report..... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


LInda - I'm so sorry to read about Paddy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> I wish I could help you with your questions but.... I think it's wonderful that you had the necropsy done. Hopefully we will all learn from it and Paddy will have his legacy. They're so special, those joeys.

Don't blame yourself - nature has its way of doing things and sometimes our intervention is just not sufficient to change that. Think of him happy at the Bridge <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/gliderangel.gif" alt="" />

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#19405 - 04/04/04 01:25 AM Re: Paddy's preliminary report..... [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Yes, it is possible for a mother to not want to nurse a joey who is older and oop. after new little ones drop in again.

Females who usually rebreed within 3 to 14 days after babies come oop. we usually do not notice much. However, for a few newly oop. joeys....this time can often be critical. Often...the hormores responsible for the estrus cycle will decrease the milk supply and thus not enough milk is available for the oop. joey. Many of these joeys die due to starvation. For a few...if supplemented befor they become depleted of food will survive once the milk supply picks up again.

As to the newer set of joeys....if for some reason the mother then gives birth to these wee ones...most do not make it to the pouch due to the nursing oop. joeys. We on the other hand...usually do not notice anything ever happend.

Therefor most owners never see these wee ones....and life fot the oop. joey goes well due to a good milk supply. At six to eight weeks oop. these babies wean naturally and then....once the milk supply dries up....Mom comes into estrus again and thus rebreeds and the cycle starts over.

For a few babies oop. life can be quite miserable to say the very least. Especially with a mom who is overly protective of wee ones who have just dropped into pouch and an offspring who is not of weaning age yet. Mother will try to discourage feeding to the point where she is plucking hair out of the top of the head or face,scratchs are noticed as well as possibly nipping at him . If this joey is not strong willed...he will be intimidated into not eating. Thus the joey dies slowly from starvation. If strong willed...baby will persue his persistance....to the point he is actually endure the bites to nurse.....in order to survive.

So, when one has babies ....one needs to monitor their developement of well being.... a min of a couple times a day. If not sure...then begin to supplement a min of twice a day.

It is usually much easier to help a joey along while still strong...... than to try to intervene once the baby has become weakend from lack of nourishment.

******Have your supplies needed for supplementing...befor the little one is due oop. And if need be...pratice feeding the adults first just so you get the hang of hand feeding befor the little one comes oop. Learn how to push just a drop or two out of the syringe without getting it all over the adults face. As the last thing one wants to do is push out too much food at one time...and drown a tiny one by getting the mix or formula up a tiny ones nose.

As to guessing why your little one did not make it...wait till you get the lab reports back as to why this little one died.

I do hope you will soon find closure as to why your little one did not survive. However, on the other hand...you will have learned much from it so his short time here.....was not in vain. After all....Mother Nature often has her way with Life..... dispite our own best efforts to help with intervention.

Sending a Big <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> to you for comfort.


Edited by Judie (04/04/04 01:40 AM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#19406 - 04/04/04 10:47 PM Re: Paddy's preliminary report..... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Judie, thanks for the info. It was very helpful. Delta's "little bump" is almost gone to the feel. I'm still taking her to the vet tomorrow. That's not to say she may have lost the second joey after Paddy died. I have supplemented joeys before, the triplets that came OOP (just before the last SGGA) needed help, and I had the supplies ready, I just didn't see it coming (rather I dismissed what I saw because it had never happened to my gliders before). I thought what I saw was a baby who's deep sleep had been disturbed, around 12 or 1am Friday morning, and by 8pm that night he had died. Since I'd never lost a joey that way, and even the triplets survived, I wasn't as cautious as I should have been. In any case, barring a medical miracle, there won't be any more joeys. I just wish I hadn't lost my last one, even if his conception was an accident.

Thanks again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/gliderangel.gif" alt="" />

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#19407 - 04/06/04 07:02 PM Re: Paddy's preliminary report..... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The vet gave Delta a clean bill of health. She has no mammary infection and no joey. Still waiting on the final necropsy report on Paddy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/gliderangel.gif" alt="" />

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#19408 - 04/06/04 10:19 PM Re: Paddy's preliminary report..... [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Great to hear that Deltas was given a clean bill of health!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
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If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#19409 - 04/14/04 03:12 AM Re: Paddy's preliminary report..... [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Just checking to see if you got a final report on Paddy yet.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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