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#198906 - 01/11/07 01:33 AM Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok so I recently just joined, up until we had not been very educated on gliders. However I just bought a new cage and ordered new food and have been reading. I noticed today when I went to a good friends house (this is where the glider lives and is taken care of etc. So I guess I am not technically it's owner, however the story is not the point. I am involved in his care and have taken the time to research).

Anyways I noticed Twinkie had a bright red area near the tip of his tail where hair was missing. He had not looked like this previously, I just noticed it today, however ever since we got him (back in September) he has always had hair missing on a part on his tail.
In my first thread some one mentioned galvanized wire causing urinary infections and that can lead to self mutilation. So when I saw his tail, I instantly just thought maybe I needed to research about self mutilation. From what I've read it is really serious.

So I want to make an E-Collar, however I keep looking at the instructions, but there is no template to make the collar. Also I don't have some of the things available to make it (the molefoam), is there any substitutes I can use?
I will be calling a vet tomorrow, however we've been having bad weather, so just to be safe, I want to make sure he had an E-Collar incase I can't travel to the vet right away etc.


I apologize for this being so long, if this doesn't sound like self mutilation then I guess I just overreacted. I'd just rather be safe then sorry. I have read self mutilation can be caused by stress, urinary tract infections (or in general something wrong with a male's penis), diet, loneliness, etc.

Since we've had him on a horrible diet, and in a galvanized cage, and I wouldn't say he is bonded to any of us, I just figured there's probably something wrong.


Edited by twinkie825 (01/11/07 01:35 AM)

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#198909 - 01/11/07 01:42 AM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
TracieB Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 4338
Loc: Lenexa, KS
Natalie, I'm sorry I can't be any help regarding the self mutilation, but here's a link to Suz' site and a template for the E-Collar . And this may be something you've already read, but here's also a link to Suz' page about Self Mutilation .


I'm sure someone will be along shortly to offer you some help.
_________________________
Tracie
1 wonderful husband - Chris
1 goofy Yorkie - Dexter
2 naughty kitties - Chloe & Alek

Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge:
1 spoiled Yorkie, Myles - April 5, 1993-June 5, 2007
1 sweet :wfb: Xavier - August 5, 2007-May 20, 2010
2 sweet :grey: :grey: Nara & Alkina - February, 2006-November, 2011





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#198911 - 01/11/07 02:09 AM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: TracieB]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
The template is on the page link that Tracie posted above. There aren't any substitutes I'm aware of that you can use for the molefoam. I would highly suggest a vet visit to rule out UTI or other infection. Please also read this post for more info and help to see if he is possibly sm'ing.

_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#198912 - 01/11/07 02:09 AM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: TracieB]
TracieB Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 4338
Loc: Lenexa, KS
Natalie, I just wanted to let you know that I have notified a moderator of your post. I don't know if this is actually self mutilation or not, but I wanted to get someone with some better knowledge here for you just in case.

Also, I have no idea about a substitute for the molefoam - sorry.

Sending prayers your way.
_________________________
Tracie
1 wonderful husband - Chris
1 goofy Yorkie - Dexter
2 naughty kitties - Chloe & Alek

Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge:
1 spoiled Yorkie, Myles - April 5, 1993-June 5, 2007
1 sweet :wfb: Xavier - August 5, 2007-May 20, 2010
2 sweet :grey: :grey: Nara & Alkina - February, 2006-November, 2011





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#198919 - 01/11/07 03:51 AM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: TracieB]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
An ecollar will work for a glider who is chewing at the base of the tail (near where it's attached to the body)-the tip, however, they are frequently able to curl the tail into the collar and still get at it-so a straw taped on or bandage to keep the tail so it can't curl in is usually used to keep that from happening.

Normally, injury or infection in the tail is what causes them to chew at it...SM is a vicious cycle...it hurts, the glider chews to try and stop it, it hurts more, they chew more, etc. The way to end the cycle is to find and treat the underlying problem. If there is no break, antibiotics and pain meds need to be started. If there is, both of those plus partial amputation to below the injury into healthy tissue may be necessary if the glider won't leave it alone, or if there is any dead tissue (black, hard, or necrotic). Overgrooming can be caused by stress, but when the skin begins to be damaged it's beyond that, and needs a vet. HTH
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#198965 - 01/11/07 08:09 AM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: Xfilefan]
thefotokat Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1360
Loc: Ft. Pierce, FL
The molefoam is used to protect the neck from the collar rubbing it. I've gotten it at Walgreens, Walmart and Publix. Try to find it because it works best. Please keep us informed about this little one.
_________________________
Kate
SouthEast Sugar Gliders
SESG Rescue and Sanctuary
SECARES
Go To The Vet!!!

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#199095 - 01/11/07 01:23 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: thefotokat]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I called the vet, we'll probably take him in tomorrow or late today. Depends on what the vet has open, he's gonna give me a call back. For now I have my friend watching him constantly, he doesn't appear to be bothering it. Late last night around 3 am (my friend sleeps late in the morning, and pretty much stays up all night till around 5 am) he appeared to be kind of naughing (sp?) on his tail, he wasn't making any noise while doing it, and my friend distracted him from doing it (he likes to play with this one toy thing, will follow it everywhere). However right before 5 am, when my friend was going to sleep, he caught him chewing on the cage bars. I don't know if that is a sign of anything, but I thought I'd add it. I'll let you know how it goes. I haven't made him a E-collar or cone head thing (sorry I refer to them as a cone head, most animals hate them..) because he probably still will be able to reach him tail. And I wasn't sure how I could prevent him from doing that. So I'm going to ask the vet what he thinks.

Also I was wondering if I could get a list of safe antibiotics for sugar gliders? and what the antibiotics are commonly used for? I just like to have stuff like this on hand, I have it for my chinchillas etc.

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#199103 - 01/11/07 01:35 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
The most important thing is to prevent him from doing any more damage. This may mean an ecollar. With the tip of the tail being an issue, putting on an ecollar and then taking a McDonalds straw (they are bigger around than most straws) you can make a sleeve to go over the tail to prevent him from being able to curl the tail around the collar. Attached is a picture of Sebastian with his ecollar on and his tail in a straw. With him, I had to split the straw length wise so it would fit around his tail. then I used duct tape (which is why it looks silver in the photo).


Attachments
5351-Sebastiansatalitecollar.JPG (34 downloads)

_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#199110 - 01/11/07 01:43 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
Hi, Twinkie's Mom!

I've been reading all the posts of this thread, and my suggestion is to try putting a straw over the tip of his tail. You'll want to cut the straw lengthwise & add an extra 1/2" beyond the end. Now the challenges will be (a) getting it over his tail without him biting the bejeebers out of you; and (b) getting it to STAY PUT. The answer to problem A is two-fold: it will take TWO OF YOU--one holding him down & the other taping the straw in place--to get this done. The answer to problem B is that you'll use medical tape (NOT the opaque white cloth-type stuff, the clear "breatheable" stuff) to wrap around the straw & about 1/4" beyond so he can't just pull it off.

I wish I could SHOW you how to pin him down so he doesn't wiggle loose...the best way I can describe it is that it's almost like a wrestling hold where you put your thumbs on their shoulders & GENTLY push down.

If you can do this while he is still a bit "groggy" from sleeping, that will be beneficial for both of you human slaves.

I can't offhand remember what antibiotic my vet gives me for my babies. (Amoxicillin suspension?) I've gotten it for UTI's & infection preventative for tail amputations (been THERE 3 times)

Let us know how it all turns out.
_________________________
Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry

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#199113 - 01/11/07 01:44 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: Dancing]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the picture Dancing, I couldn't get a metal image of how to bandage the tail. But this gives me a good idea. I still don't have moal foam, but I'll try to get some.

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#199117 - 01/11/07 01:47 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Minkasmom thank you for reply too. It will be tough holding him down, he's taken to biting a lot recently. So this will be intersting lol. Wish me luck. Hopefully we can get it on with out him throwing to much of a fit. He's usually better during the day when he's sleepy, at night though he's quite wild and full of it, and very bitey.

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#199125 - 01/11/07 01:54 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic that is commonly given to prevent infection. (that is what Sebastian was given). Or what is given until a specific infection is detected then the antibiotic may be changed to something more targeted.
"(Amoxicillin suspension?)" would probably be Clavomox.

Also make sure you discuss with your vet about pain meds. If a glider has an injury, they will attack the source of pain making the injury worse, (vicious cycle) so pain management is vital to stop the self mutilation.

Torb is often used as is Metacam. Metacam should not be used long term (more than about 5 days) as it is hard on the internal organs. Metacam does have the added benefit though of being an anti inflamitory as well as a pain reliever.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#199134 - 01/11/07 02:02 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: Dancing]
thefotokat Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1360
Loc: Ft. Pierce, FL
Like Teresa said, preventing more damage is the most important thing at this time. I can't stress enough how quickly they can hurt themselves. My little boy Yokio was neutered a few weeks ago and the vet tech nicked his belly while shaving him. He started by licking it and I just kept an eye on him through the night and planned on taking him back to the vet in the morning. When I took a shower and got ready for work in the morning, I left him in his cage. In this period of about 45 minutes, he quietly chewed his belly. I returned to a glider w/a gash almost 2" long. The vet had to go back in surgically to repair it w/both internal and external sutures and he said it was like "putting a jigsaw puzzle together." If I had put him in an ecollar when I first saw him licking excessively, I could have avoided putting him through so much more trauma. I will never hesitate to put a collar on again...better safe than sorry. I learned from what he went through. Thanks to the help of some wonderful people (Borubon, Jen and Kristin) he is totally healed, happy and healthy.
_________________________
Kate
SouthEast Sugar Gliders
SESG Rescue and Sanctuary
SECARES
Go To The Vet!!!

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#199139 - 01/11/07 02:11 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here is a picture from last year's SGGA of Bourbon holding down a glider the way minkasmom was describing.



About the antibiotics, I would not recommend "keeping them on hand" because the dosage has to be so exact, according to the concentration you have and the weight of the glider. Just to show you how exact it has to be, when my glider was sick, I had one med I had to give 0.03cc and another med I gave 0.07cc. If you look at how much that is on a tiny syringe, we're talking about fractions of a drop. You don't want to give meds to a glider without a vet's supervision. Besides, antibiotics don't keep that long. The expiration date after they're mixed up in the suspension (and the concentration of that suspension is critical, so it has to be done by a fortifying pharmacy-not your normal Walgreen's-or a vet) is usually a month or less.

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#199146 - 01/11/07 02:19 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just to clear something up, I wasn't going to keep antibiotics on hand. Especially not for a glider, dosage is too hard to figure out. I just wanted to have a list of the safe antibiotics for future knowledge.

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#199456 - 01/12/07 01:06 AM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well I went out and bought the stuff for an E-Collar, unfortuantly when we attempted to put it on we couldn't get him to hold still long enough to get it on tight enough so that he couldn't slip out of it. I attempted to bandage his tail, the straw thing also didn't work too well, and he probably would have just chewed on it with out the E-Collar. So I guess we were doing something wrong.

We have a vet appointment tomorrow at 11:30, will let every one know how it goes.

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#199458 - 01/12/07 01:11 AM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you were interested, the anti-inflammatory medication for Castor and Pollux is called Metacam. It seems after a little googling, its a common pet medication.


Edited by glidrz5 (01/12/07 01:50 AM)

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#199905 - 01/12/07 07:35 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
TracieB Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 4338
Loc: Lenexa, KS
Just wondering how this little guy is doing. What happened at the vet visit?
_________________________
Tracie
1 wonderful husband - Chris
1 goofy Yorkie - Dexter
2 naughty kitties - Chloe & Alek

Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge:
1 spoiled Yorkie, Myles - April 5, 1993-June 5, 2007
1 sweet :wfb: Xavier - August 5, 2007-May 20, 2010
2 sweet :grey: :grey: Nara & Alkina - February, 2006-November, 2011





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#199915 - 01/12/07 08:07 PM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: TracieB]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The vet checked him out and put him on antibiotics. He thinks most of it is his diet (got a big lecture there, and he was happy when I told him we were changing it), and the fact that he was in a small cage and bored. He also said he may need more attention than we are giving him. For now he seems to be doing fine.

The reptarium just came so tomorrow I'll take it and set it up at a friends house.

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#200145 - 01/13/07 10:25 AM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've been looking all over the place and I cannot find the template for the E-Collar at all. All the links for it is for Gliderhealth.com, but their site is not working or taken down or something.

Anyone have a template?

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#200171 - 01/13/07 10:52 AM Re: Self Mutilation? E-Collar help, please! [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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