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#199659 - 01/12/07 12:47 PM Antibiotics
Anonymous
Unregistered


Is tetracycline an acceptable antibiotic to use with gliders? We just came from the vet and he agrees with my abcess diagnosis and perscribed an antibiotic. He was reluctant to drain it as it is right on her neck/throat. I am thinking to seperate my pair tonight till she begins recover. Any thoughts?

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#199671 - 01/12/07 01:21 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
I have no idea on the antibiotics, but I was thinking that the abcess should have been drained to begin healing.

Is this the mating wound? Is the male paying attention the the wound at all?
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#199702 - 01/12/07 01:46 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: BeckiT]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have heard of tetracycline, but I am not familiar with it. I would also think it would be necessary to drain the abcess. If it opens on it's own, she will have a nasty infected wound. Lemme make a quick phone call - BRB

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#199705 - 01/12/07 01:51 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I called Xfilefan & left her a message, she'll be on as soon as she can get to a computer. She has dealt with abcesses before, so I'm sure she can offer a bit more help.

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#199710 - 01/12/07 01:58 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: BeckiT]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Definitely keep them separated. I wish he'd drained it too, but he is the vet as well as being the one who actually saw the lump so we have to trust his judgment on what's better for your glider.

That said, Tetracycline makes me nervous for gliders. There are so many side effects for humans including light sensitivity, discoloration of a baby's teeth if the mother uses it while pregnant and it causes birth control pills to become ineffective just to name a few. Again, I'm not a vet so I probably shouldn't be placing doubts in your head about your own vet's judgment, but I don't think I've heard of using tetracycline for gliders. I usually hear Baytril and Clavamox and a few others I can't think of right now.

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#199714 - 01/12/07 02:03 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just read about it on wikipedia, and if I'm understanding what that's saying it's used for (primarily an acne treatment?), I don't see how it's going to help with an abcess... It also says it's inactivated by Ca2+, so it shouldn't be taken milk or yogurt..
I'm sure someone will come along and hopefully clear that one up..

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#199727 - 01/12/07 02:14 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Where are you located? Perhaps we can help find another vet with more experience. I would strongly suggest finding another vet. The abcess should probably be drained. Leaving it as it is, there is a high risk of the infection turning systemic and getting in the blood stream. This would most likely be fatal. If left as is, it could rupture and leave a very nasty big hole in the glider that will be much more difficult to get to heal.

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But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#199744 - 01/12/07 02:32 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: Dancing]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Thanks, Gina...sorry I couldn't get to the phone fast enough.

I wouldn't use tetracycline-and the abscess DOES need drained. It also most likely needs meds targeted for an aneroebic infection, which are most common in closed wounds-or abscesses. My choice would be either Baytril, Clavamox, or Clindamycin COMBINED WITH Flagyl (metronidazole), for at LEAST 3 weeks, twice daily-dosage must be based on the weight of the glider. Once a day will not keep it in the system with enough consistency to be successful. I'd highly recommend finding another vet-if we know what city you're in, we can help with that.

I'm going to post a pic of Lyah-my girl who had to have a tooth removed. If it looks at all like yours, let us know, or if different, try and describe how. 'Lumpy jaw', an infection in the gums/mouth, or an abscess, or an infected tooth, can ALL present looking this way. Hard food isn't required to cause it-all it does is increase the likelihood of such an infection through a scratch in the gums, but it's absence by no means means a glider can't get one.

I am also concerned as Dancing mentioned-if not drained, the infection can go systemic and kill, and in a shorter time than you think. An undrained abscess is next to impossible to kill (or get rid of), because there is no blood circulation inside and the antibiotics can't get in there (a decent vet would know that-and also know that a glider isn't like a cat, dog or more common exotic animal, and by the time symptoms show, it's late in the game).

The vet should also check for ANY loose or damaged teeth-if there is one, it will need removed in order for this to heal.

Here are 2 pics of Lyah-does it look anything close?





Attachments
5370-LyahFace001.jpg (33 downloads)
5371-LyahFace002.jpg (33 downloads)



Edited by Xfilefan (01/12/07 02:34 PM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#199754 - 01/12/07 02:47 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: Xfilefan]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Jen, the abcess or lump is on the side of her neck or throat she said. I had to read back to see where it was.
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#199758 - 01/12/07 02:58 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: Ellen]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
She also said it looked like a chipmunk with an overfull cheek-if it's both, it could still have originated in the mouth or teeth. I read it before leaving work, but didn't have the opportunity to reply, and was on my way home sliding on slick, snowy roads when Gina called and couldn't get the phone.

One possiblility if it's confined to the neck also is cancer-I can't remember whose glider it was that had the neck swelling that turned out to be cancer. If it's an abscess, it needs drained, though, and most abscesses, because they are enclosed, thus little to no air, harbor anaerobic bacteria.

Tetracycline also can have the effect of not only discoloring the teeth, but rotting them from the inside out and severely weakening the enamel-even in people. My aunt lost all of her teeth to it, from a single 10 day course. It has other potential side effects as well, and there are much safer antibiotics IMO-but that is just my opinion. Regardless, I don't think enough has been done by the existing vet, and I know how hard an abscess is to get to, even when open, since I've had a number of them in 4 gliders-but just my experience, and it's possible that's not the case here, there's always exceptions...only offering the best I know of.

From the Breeding and Babies thread:

Quote:
Almost looks like an over-full hamster cheek. Is sounding like it could be a jaw infection now the more I am reading


Edited by Xfilefan (01/12/07 03:00 PM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#199806 - 01/12/07 04:19 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just looked at the pics of Lyah, and my Lizzy's lump in more on the neck throat. I'm confident that it's an abcess rather than a tumer because it seemed to appear in less than 48hrs. The vet was reluctant to drain it due to its location on the throat and proximity to the jugular. I'm glad someone mentioned the milk product combination "no no" as I was going to try to slip it in some ice cream for tonights dose. I live in Cranbrook BC and this is the only vet with any experience with gliders. Please keep the thoughts and suggestions coming.

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#199839 - 01/12/07 05:06 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Is your vet willing to do a phone consult with another vet? I know there are several people here with excellent vets who will do phone consults. Thoughts headed your way for her to feel better soon!
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#200349 - 01/13/07 05:26 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: BeckiT]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here are the vets in the database for BC:

Dr. Linda Kaplan, Tri-Lake Animal Hospital
10564 Powley Court Winfield, British Columbia
250-766-3236
http://glidercentral.net/links/noinfo.php

Dr. Sharon Prus
903-7380 King George HWY Surrey, British Columbia
604-597-7387
http://glidercentral.net/links/noinfo.php

I don't know how close you are to either of these. I also went into State Roll Call & got the names of all the BC folks - thought you could PM everyone & see who they take their sugs to.

Candiflip, sugaredjordym, Paula, Canadian_Glider_Guy, possummomca, Rspitz

HTH

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#225605 - 02/27/07 12:43 PM Re: Antibiotics [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi there

This thread was brought to my attention probably way too late to be of any help. Between my suggies and raising and releasing wildlife (spring and summer only thank heavens) and this winter working I only get on here to read a few posts but never to post myself frown .

I don't know if it is relevant or not but I use a vet named Dr. Elizabeth Borgman at the Whatcom Road veterinarian Hospital. She is wonderful because there is actually three vets in the office that all have experience with exotics.
She is located in Abbotsford BC.

604-850-0960
Unit 102-2100 Whatcom Road
Abbotsford, B.C. V3G 2K8

Hope this may help someone in the future if not now.
Sorry for the late response. If anyone ever needs my assistance I am always checking my email through the day.
I am located in Mission BC
Barb

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#227100 - 03/02/07 01:35 AM Re: Antibiotics [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Tetracycline is a good drug. It has its advantages and disadvantages just like everything else.

Most abscesses require drainage to clear up. If you are lucky enough to have it spontaneously open and drain, that is not a bad thing. There is no reason to assume a surgically opened wound is better. They are opened to make it happen faster (speeds healing and lessens pain) and to make sure it opens. When opened, one can culture the pus easier that if it happens on its own, but the main thing is drainage, and when it drains all by itself that can be safer and cheaper.

A couple of the most frequent bacteria to cause abscesses under the skin are Staph and Strep, both gram positive cocci (aerobes). Tetracycline is pretty good at both. It is in general a pretty good skin drug, and readily absorbed through the gut without significant unreasonable side-effects.

Tetracycline has been shown to bother human tooth development, but that is not universal to all species. We avoid it in human children until about 8 years, but dental enamel development occurs well before tooth eruption. Gliders don't emerge OOP edentulous like people are born. And it doesn't affect teeth already present. It doesn't ruin enamels already made, only those being made. So the critical time of exposure would be well before OOP dates. If it hurts glider tooth enamel at all, it would be when given to mom before OOP timing.

I'd be careful giving multiple meds at once, more than one with activity against the same spectrum, and long courses right out of the gate. If an infection proves not to respond to one drug at a reasonable length of treatment, then changing meds may be warranted. A few select circumstances may warrant long courses of meds, but not as a starting point for all situations. Combining meds and long courses have risks and problems, including germ resistance and interference of one drug with the other. Not all antibiotic combinations are synergistic - some actually are antagonistic and can increase morbidity and mortality.


Edited by schlep (03/02/07 01:37 AM)

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