Sugar Glider Community Calendar

Please click here to see larger view
Articles
More coming soon!!
Today's Birthdays
Lezly
Featured Member
Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 209
Last 10 Posts
'injury' at bald spot?
by Ladymagyver
TheWildRose311
by Terry
07:42 PM
"Homemade" yogie treats
by kidqwik
04:52 PM
Dear Crabby
by Hutch
10:27 AM
Hubby said yes!
by KarenE
10:10 AM
Joeys and parents long term?
by KarenE
10:04 AM
Double Critter Nation bedding ?
by Alan
09:19 AM
Melanistic Gliders
by Hutch
02:48 AM
Custom Cage Liners Machine Wash & Dry
by Kp3690
08/20/17 08:30 PM
Camille
by Terry
08/20/17 04:08 PM
Google+

Facebook
Join Us On Facebook
Topic Options
#199886 - 01/12/07 06:53 PM Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Everyone,

Here's the long story that leads up to my posting of this thread. Before I'll start, I'll say that I am a veterinary technician working part time through college waiting on an application to get to veterinary school. I have been trying to keep myself educated on sugar glider topics, but I have had quite a few doozies in the past year with my gliders.

This July, I lost my female to pneumonia. The veterinarians tried everything to save her, including consulting with exotic veterinarians. She was just so sick. Because of her severe respiratory distress that wasn't being fixed by bronchiodilators and an oxygen cage, the decision was made to euthanize her.

This is where it gets tricky. Rocky, my male, had been showing extreme aggression toward her, to the point of debilitating her on a number of occasions. Each time I had separated them and allowed her to recuperate far past the illness (which usually was pneumonia-like). He was not letting her eat and would chase her around the cage. They had seemed to calm down until this last bout of illness, when I lost her. No one could explain Rocky's extreme aggression, as gliders are typically social animals. I considered getting him a new companion, but I have been afraid to do so for fear of another attack like the past. (This happened on multiple occasions, up to three or four times).

He has recently been switched over to the modified Leadbeaters diet on recommendation of a non-exotic veterinarian. (He had been on Brisky's supplemented with fresh fruits and veggies). He has a very large cage to play in with various toys to keep him occupied (hammocks, bridges, wheel). Rocky has had a history of chronic abcesses which started over a year ago. Since then he has had probably 3-4 bouts of abcesses beneath his eye. vets have pulled a tooth, X-rayed his skull, etc, and can't seem to find the definitive problem of his abcesses. They usually drain out of his eye.

About a month ago I noticed hair loss toward the tip of his tail (before the black tip). It was minor, but within a week or two it had progressed to a bare patch (interspersed with hair) about an inch long. The bare skin is banding but doesn't have much for sores (just two very small rub or burn-like sores). I have consulted with the veterinarians I work with as well as veterinarians in a nearby town on Rocky. I am more than happy to take him to a vet, but nearly all of them do not "do" sugar gliders. They have been willing to do some research for me, and most of the causes have come up as either diet or self mutilation.

Does this sound like sm? Is there anything I can do to help further the diagnosis? vets in my area are terrified of working with gliders (SE Wyoming) and if they will work with them, their knowledge is limited.

If you have any more questions or suggestions, PLEASE make them. I do not want to have a sick glider, and beyond his abcesses, his health had been perfect up until now (I forgot to mention that he has been neutered).


Top
#199896 - 01/12/07 07:10 PM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Hi Quizno, and welcome to GC wave

Some gliders just aren't willing to have a cagemate and are much happier as lone gliders. They are the exception, but it does happen.

As far as self mutilation, please visit The SM site and on the left you'll see a questionnaire link. Fill that out and someone experienced with SM will contact you.
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

Top
#199900 - 01/12/07 07:14 PM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


For the first part, on Rocky attacking the female. Just an idea, but...
In the wild, gliders hide their illnesses so as not to attract predators to the colony. Also, when one gets bad, the rest of the colony will kill, and often eat, the sick glider to prevent that. It's a good chance that he was trying to "chase" her out of the colony because for that very reason.

As far as Rocky, sounds like he's overgrooming. Self mutilating, or SM, is what they do when they have pain. They attack the area. Overgrooming is sometimes brought on by stress, but can be caused by infection. One cause of stress, and especially in his case, can be caused by loneliness-how much time do you spend with him? However, certain tests should be run to rule out infection--I want to say urinalysis, fecal smear and float...I'm not as versed with all this stuff, but someone else will have more insight on that kind of thing.

If you do get a second glider/friend, I'd suggest either neutered male or female. There are great links on here about introducing 2 gliders (no just tossing them in together!)

I know nothing about abscesses, so I can't help you there.

Hope this helps, or at least gives you some ideas on the other stuff.

Top
#199932 - 01/12/07 08:41 PM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: ]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
I HAVE experienced something like this with my Sassy. He had persistant peridontal problems and when his teeth would hurt he would pull the tip of his tail through his mouth over & over & over. I think it was something on the order of a teething ring for him & helped to soothe his gums. So when he'd start in, I'd take him to the vets & get the bad tooth out & he'd be fine for a few more weeks.

_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



Top
#200206 - 01/13/07 11:21 AM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: glidrz5]
Anonymous
Unregistered


glidrz5, was there any way in particular that your veterinarian used to diagnose and remove the offending tooth? When he last had a tooth out, the vet told me she more or less had to guess as to which tooth to remove, and when she removed it it appeared to have some hairline fractures on it. An X-ray was non-conclusive, but the clinic I work at has a smaller, more detailed X-ray that may be more effective? Your suggestion makes sense to me, as I don't think his tail is bothering him at all at the moment.

Other things I forgot to mention: Woods lamp for ringworm was negative, as well as a scraping for mites.

aproductof: I had thought about him attacking her for being sick, but wound up thinking the opposite instead: that he was attacking her to be defensive because he didn't feel good. Would that make sense to you at all?

The SM site questionaire is not working!

And, lastly, I read a story about an individual who had purchased a mouse for their lone glider to eat, and instead the glider bonded to him. Is this a safe move, or a bad one?

Thanks!

Edit: And one more thing...anything I can put on the dry skin that won't harm him? It looks horribly dry and uncomfortable to my human eyes.



Edited by Quizno (01/13/07 11:22 AM)

Top
#200355 - 01/13/07 05:40 PM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
You really don't need to fill out the SM site questionnaire because your glider is NOT self mutilating. He is overgrooming. This can be caused by stress, loneliness or pain in the mouth/gums (as already suggested by glidrz5). The consistent problem with abscesses in/around the eyes/sinuses concerns me. These infections can be very painful and can be very hard to eliminate (as you are already discovering). The next time that an abscess develops, you need to have the vet lance the abscess to drain it. She/he will need to collect the drainage fluid and send it out for a C&S (Culture & Sensitivity) so that the exact type of bacteria can be identified and the specific antibiotic needed for it can be prescribed. Until this happens, the infections will continue to recur. I know this from experience with my Cricky... he had multiple facial abscesses until one exotic vet ran a C&S. I had to go to a special pharmaceutical company to have them specifically make the exact antibiotic that he needed. It was well worth the expense because he never had another facial infection after that and he lived another 2 years beyond that last infection.
It could be that the infections are caused by periodontal problems. Does your glider get any mealworms in his diet? These are important to feed to gliders as the hard exoskeletons actually "brush" the glider's teeth and help to promote healthy teeth and gums. Mealworms (whether live or freeze-dried) need to be given at least 3-4 times per week. The nice thing is that gliders do LOVE to eat them smile
I will also notify Xfilefan to come read through this thread. She is one of our resident experts about these types of situations and she may have more suggestions for you, as well.
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

Top
#200432 - 01/13/07 08:23 PM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
I'll PM you the name & number of my vet. I'm sure he wouldn't mind if your vet called for a consultation on tooth problems and he would be the one to tell what the indicators were for the initial extraction. Later, when Sass would lose teeth in the office, they pretty much just fell out since his gums were in such bad shape.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



Top
#200634 - 01/14/07 08:24 AM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: glidrz5]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
First, the tail. Once the skin is damaged at all ('burn like' wounds) you are heading very fast toward SM. For this, and the other, I'm going to tell you what I would do for one of mine. Note that your vet will want to run the advised tests BEFORE starting antibiotics-a culture would be worthless once he's on them.

Have the vet start your glider on a 14 day course of a broad spectrum antibiotic - Baytril, Clavamox, or Clindamycin are all good for 'shotgunning' and infection if you don't know what's in there. Because the tail doesn't have much circulation, it's difficult for the body to get rid of an infection in it without help-farthest point from the heart (the reason diabetics have problems with toes/feet), once damage is done, infection, possible actual SM and necrotic (dead) tissue can result, and often does in gliders once the skin is broken. I know this isn't common in cats or dogs, or other domestic pets, but don't expect the same from a glider.

If there's an abscess (if not forgive me-I think I read it was a poss.), it will HAVE to be allowed to drain if possible. Sometimes an infection is diffused through the tissue-it can mimic an abscess, but there's nothing to drain (as in my Riker's case). If there is, to allow an antibiotic the best possible penetration, it needs to be opened, flushed daily, ointment and/or watered iodine applied, plus oral antibiotics. Again, unlike a dog or cat, who run higher body temps, have a higher base metabolic rate, and are more vascular, this will give the best results with quickest recovery. Frequently if an abscess in a glider is not drained, it will not recover, and the system will go sceptic, killing the glider over time. An X ray will help to diagnose. While the glider is under-the vet needs to check ALL 44 teeth, see if any are loose (they can be with no external sign of infection on teeth or gums-like my Lyah)- and the tooth will need removed, which will allow drainage. If suspected, but you can't find it, a course of antibiotics ranging from 3 to 5 weeks (a combo works best for these...a broad spectrum such as Clindamycin or Baytril, PLUS Flagyl (metronidazole) to cover anaerobics that tend to occur in mouth abscesses/infected teeth. I personally have tried twice, and know of two others, that vets attempted a nasal flush to obtain a sample with no bacteria that could be colleted-but there was infection. Likely due to the tiny size of the nostrils and glider sinuses. Covering all the bases with the meds saves money with a culture likely to come up empty, plus the stress on the glider. Xrays should be taken both from the top of the head, and from the sides if possible, as the bone structure can interfere with the view at certain angles.

If there's anything I can help with you're also welcome to call. I work nights, so sleep daytimes, but if it's an emergency please leave a message on the house phone (do that anyway, since I don't like answering for telemarketers and likely won't pick up if I don't know who it is-just say it's about a glider and I'll pick up asap)-any other time and all night I'm available by cell. My numbers are in my signature.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

Top
#200635 - 01/14/07 08:26 AM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: Xfilefan]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I also agree that her illness may be why the female was being attacked, at least in part, and the start of the overgrooming could be a combination of loneliness as well as illness. Overgrooming is usu. a stress response, and both are different stressors. It is to the point treatment should be given, though.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

Top
#200985 - 01/14/07 07:17 PM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Xfilefan,

Thanks so much for your reply (and that of others as well).

He does not have an abcess currently. His last episode was in August/September, but that cleared up very rapidly with the new antibiotic we tried, Clavamox (the other vet refused to use anything other than Baytril, which always seemed to take forever to clear up the infection).

I will get him in to the vet to have his dental health fully assessed. He does get mealies, though certainly not often enough. For some reason I had thought it was just for protein purposes (my bad!). I will do better with that.

I'll update you as things come along. Should I get him a companion if this comes up dry? I don't want to have the same thing occur again, but if he's lonely I certainly don't want him to be.


Top
#201231 - 01/15/07 08:59 AM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:
Should I get him a companion if this comes up dry? I don't want to have the same thing occur again, but if he's lonely I certainly don't want him to be.

If it turns out that he doesn't have any underlying health issues, then I would definitely get him a companion...
Do ask the vet for one of the antibiotics mentioned by Jen (Xfilefan) to treat possible/probable tail infection at this point. If you do decide to get him a companion, wait until his tail is completely healed, first.
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

Top
#201245 - 01/15/07 09:19 AM Re: Hair Loss: Is it Mutilation? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Be very careful with this issue. I had a glider whose tail looked exactly like you were saying until she rubbed it so raw overgrooming it that she started SMing. My first vet visit for this led to an emergency visit after bad advice. If you put any type of bandage on the tail, please request an e-collar and avoid the possibility of the glider doing more damage. Gabby ended up chewing the tip of her tail off and she needed half her tail amputed. I don't mean to scare you, this is just my one experience, but be very careful. If he could be SMing he could do a lot of damage within hours.

I'm sure you'll do fine, just keep a close eye on him. Good luck.

Top




Moderator:  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver, Philwojo 
Sugar Glider Help Page



Please click above to see how you can help!!

Moon
CURRENT MOON
Who's Online
2 registered (josefine, theresaw), 27 Guests and 33 Spiders online.
Key: Owner, Admin, Mod
Newest Members
Glidermike, BeardedGlider, saharasnow, Louise, MzT3xdafun
6306 Registered Users
Forum Stats
13 posts in the last 24hrs
6306 Members
134 Forums
8815 Topics
147055 Posts

Max Online: 478 @ 07/15/07 01:24 AM
Last 10 New Topics
'injury' at bald spot?
by josefine
07:19 PM
Hubby said yes!
by Ladymagyver
10:02 AM
TheWildRose311
by Feather
08:37 PM
Joeys and parents long term?
by Pigbat
01:56 PM
Double Critter Nation bedding ?
by Kp3690
11:35 AM
Camille
by Feather
08/19/17 10:14 PM
"Homemade" yogie treats
by sugarfluff
08/19/17 05:44 PM
Joey or Full grown
by kinn2388
08/16/17 09:43 AM
How could I help this glider?
by MomoShiva
08/15/17 05:21 PM
One day too late
by CrypticDelirium
08/15/17 03:06 PM
(Views)Popular Topics
I just found a lump on Timmy's chest--HELP! 20200284
Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts 12461142
TEXAS 626438
Pitbull biter needs advice/help 561170
OHIO 483019
Member Titles 431448
MISSOURI 367504
HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's 342324
OKLAHOMA 328775
URGENT - Genetic Flaw discovered 322984
Supported Browser
This site was tested and is best viewed in Google Chrome & Mozilla FireFox



Firefox 3

Download your copy today!!!


GliderCENTRAL
©1998-2017