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#203836 - 01/19/07 06:25 PM Switching Diets Every Once and While???
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay, I know you all think I'm weird or dumb right now, BUT I was wondering if there is anyone who changes proven diets every I don't know... Few weeks?

The reason I ask is b/c I can't get a hold of the breeder who came up with Elwin's diet and although they love it, I'm afraid they will get sick of it just like they did BML and Priscilla Price diet.

Once they get sick of it, they throw it out of the dishes (yes, even when melted) or will refuse to eat it at all. Sometimes they just dig and dig until they find fresh stuff without a hint of it on there. Other times, I find the male wiping it off the fruit he loves. Smart boogers.

I didn't know if this was "bad" for them to change their diets every once and a while. I know if I had to eat the same staple diet day in and day out I'd refuse to eat and do the same things they do.

I was thinking maybe 2-3 weeks on Elwin's, 2-3 weeks on Priscilla Price, 2-3 weeks on Leadbeaters? What do you think?

Please don't think I'm stupid. I just want my gliders to eat well and be healthy. Thanks.

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#203838 - 01/19/07 06:28 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It is not a good idea to keep switching diets. What diet were they on before you got them?

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#203839 - 01/19/07 06:31 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Before I got them? My male was on Quiko hard pelleted food. His sister was on bird seed. I handraised my youngest female and had her on suggested joey growth formula by Suz. I then put her on Priscilla afer 9-10 weeks.


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#203892 - 01/19/07 08:18 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
agilitygliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1425
Loc: Orlando/Kissimmee Florida
Keep her on the Priscilla Price diet. There is no need to switch your gliders from diet to diet. I say this mainly because they need some kind of stability in their systems. Changing can cause undue stress on your babies, not a very good idea considering what foods they have been on.

Please keep them on one proven diet, they will love you for it.
_________________________
Billy Rodriguez Jr.

Delfuego Kennels in Sunny Florida

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#203933 - 01/19/07 09:06 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: agilitygliders]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just out of curiosity, why is it that everywhere I see written that gliders need a variety, but yet I've also heard at the same time you should not change diets at all either. Seems like the variety is limited then. I'm just curious because I use to hear the same with cats. "Don't change their diets or they will get upset digestive systems." However, it was when I started feeding a variety of diets to my cats that all digestive problems went away and my cats were much healthier, kittens produced were bigger and grew faster & mothers produced better milk. There wasn't one single food in there, including homemade, that I hadn't tried previously, but none produced the same results by themselves as they do in a combo. I'm just wondering if the same might not hold true for gliders. This might also help prevent diet deficiencies because what one diet might be too heavy or light on the other diet might compensate. Are there any instances where switching between healthy, approved diets have been detrimental to the gliders or is this just a guess?

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#203961 - 01/19/07 09:25 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm providing a link to a breeder who feeds a rotation of 2 diets - Pricilla's and Darcy's. Since this breeder is currently doing it, you might want to e-mail her and see what type of success or not she is having with the rotation.

http://www.thesugarshack.com/diets.htm

I'm thinking I'm going to do 3 days Priscilla's and 1 day Elwin's just because I do want my glider to get more fresh foods. Plus Elwins isn't like trying to add a completely different mixture - like say if you tried to switch between BML and Priscillas or something like that. Elwin's is made up of components that are in Priscilla's diet, just minus a few thinks like oatmeal. So there is nothing really "new" for the glider to get use to, just presented in a different way.


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#203969 - 01/19/07 09:31 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes Jessie, that's what I wanted to do. I would love to keep them on ONE diet, but like I said, they are picky and after about 3 weeks, they don't eat it and pick it out or just stare at me like, "Mom! We're sick of this!" At which point Priscilla Price goes all over my face.

I'm kind of on the same page as you Jessie. I was just curious why switching it up would cause harm. I wouldn't do BML and Priscilla b/c those are totally different ingredients.

I wanted to do something like switching off of Priscilla and Elwin's. Or something else similar to Elwin's and Elwin's itself since mine love the chicken and protein part of it.

Has anyone ever tried this and had success and or failures? I know mine didn't stress out over the switches. They actually wouldn't take their hands off the food. My female was on Priscilla Price after being handfed over a year ago. She's now 1 year and 4 mos. old.

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#203973 - 01/19/07 09:36 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
agilitygliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1425
Loc: Orlando/Kissimmee Florida
Variety comes in the form of fruits and veggies that you offer. You are putting your human emotions so to speek into the variety that our animals get. See gliders in the wild have a pretty stable variety of what they will eat at certain times of the year. So you can switch from mealies to crickets to hoppers for variety. You can also switch the types of fruit depending on whats in season in your area. Your base component should stay the same though. Thats where the years of study to make these proven diets has come from.

Now here is why is it dangerous to do this switching so often of diets. The vitamins are complete oposites of eachother. You can cause a chain reaction of changes in your gliders system to where it can't handle so many switches of the vitamins. You can.t use P's vitamins and then use repcal vitamins and the switch back. Its not safe. Just like people should not mix certain dietary supplements with others. Its dangerous.

I think that if all of the proven diets used the same vitamins I would not see a problem in mixing,but I belive since that is not the case we should stick with what most of us have learned. Stick with what your gliders will eat when it comes to proven diets.
_________________________
Billy Rodriguez Jr.

Delfuego Kennels in Sunny Florida

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#203977 - 01/19/07 09:42 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: agilitygliders]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh man, Billy, those were some good points. Now I'm in a bind b/c they won't stick to one diet. Grrrrreat. ::sigh:: Thanks for the advice though. I appreciate it.

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#203982 - 01/19/07 09:47 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
agilitygliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1425
Loc: Orlando/Kissimmee Florida
I am sure they will stay on P's diet. You should change up the fruits and veggies used init. I like using fruit flavored yogurts also versus the plain that way I can switch up the flavors to really entice them and keep them guessing what flavor are the going to taste next. Also have you tried making the fruits and veggies into a smoothie before adding them into the mixing bowls?
_________________________
Billy Rodriguez Jr.

Delfuego Kennels in Sunny Florida

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#203983 - 01/19/07 09:51 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: agilitygliders]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Trust me... I've tried ALL of that plus some. I don't feed the same fruits and veggies every night. I don't even feed the frozen stuff. I have used different flavored yogurts (their fav. is cherry and strawberry).

I have tried making smoothies. They love their protein and fresh food. It's just the staple they hate. Well, they love it for about 3 weeks, then hate it and me.

My male was on the P's diet for over a year before he decided to use it for launching it at me. I'll wake up in the a.m. and find P's diet all on the fleece I use as bedding in their Rept.

Any other suggestions? I'm open to anything...

*While I'm at it, mind me asking what Sustagen is? I'm looking into Leadbeaters. Just reseaching and curious what the U.S. brand would be for that since I know that it's an Aussie brand. Thanks.

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#203993 - 01/19/07 09:58 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I believe Sustagen is Ensure, used in Darcy's diet (it's the European brand name).
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#203996 - 01/19/07 10:00 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: KattyM]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh. hahahaha I thought so but when I googled it, it gave me some WEIRD info. Some said it was like a sports shake, others said it was like a vitamin supplement pill form.

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#203997 - 01/19/07 10:00 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
agilitygliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1425
Loc: Orlando/Kissimmee Florida
You are mixing your chicken and fruits into the basic mix aren;t you?

Which variety of P's diet are you using? She has three.
_________________________
Billy Rodriguez Jr.

Delfuego Kennels in Sunny Florida

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#203998 - 01/19/07 10:03 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: agilitygliders]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Agility - Thank you for the info and I can see where if you were feeding 2 different diets such as BML and P's that required the 2 different vitamins, then I could see the problem - which was sorta what I was trying to say in my post. However, I don't see a problem in using 2 diets that are similar just presented a bit different - which is more like what I was talking about.

Christinahan - what we could do to keep it P's but yet similar to Elwins is to mix the applesauce, oatmeal, OJ, etc together but leave the fruit, veggies and protein out of the mixture since these are in essences Elwin's diet. Put the frest fruit, veggies & protein chopped up in one bowl like you would if you were just feeding Elwins, then in another bowl add a spoonful of the concoction you mixed above (applesauce, oatmeal, etc.) That way it would still be P's diet but presented Fresh like Elwin's. Then you could confidently switch between the two ways - mixing all together or feeding seperate fresh components w/o worry. See your gliders start getting sick of the one way, then switch them back, but the nutrients wouldn't change.

Just a thought.

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#204000 - 01/19/07 10:06 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
agilitygliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1425
Loc: Orlando/Kissimmee Florida
Have you guys gotten the two new diet sheets from P yet? Thats exactly how one is presented. PM me and I will get them to you tommorow. I am going to sleep, LOL.
_________________________
Billy Rodriguez Jr.

Delfuego Kennels in Sunny Florida

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#204003 - 01/19/07 10:10 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: agilitygliders]
Anonymous
Unregistered


P sent them to me a couple days ago - unless she has changed them again since? I found them a tad confusing so just followed the final page of the "final" diet sheet but cut everything down to a 1/4 or else I just wasn't going to have enough room in my small freezer.

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#204037 - 01/19/07 11:59 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cosmo, that sounds like a great idea.

Agility, I dont agree with you about switching vitamins being dangerous. It seems, actually, to offer a little insurance that the complete spectrum of needed vitamins and nutrients is being offered. If one preparation is lacking, perhaps the other will make up the difference.

The goal in human nutrition is to provide complete vitamins and minerals from a variety of food sources. Vitamin supplements are just man's best guess at what complete nutrition should include.

Time after time in the history of the study of human nutrition, the requirements have needed to be changed as we discover that other nutrients are needed and in different combinations. Establishing the proper doseage of vitamins, minerals and other nutrients for omnivores is tricky, since their natural foods are so varied.

Yes, humans taking mega doses of certain vitamins can suffer side effects when abruptly changing from one high doseage to another, but that is not the case with the suggies. They are not being mega dosed, at least we hope not.

The truth is that no one really knows exactly what they need and that all proven diets are only diets that have proven to keep suggies in reasonable healthy states for reasonable lengths of time. I have not heard any one who developed a diet claim that it was absolutely the perfect suggie diet.

I see no problem, nutritionally, with changing their diet periodically, from one proven diet to another. If it seems to stress them to have different foods, that is another issue.

I also would keep to each diet for a period of weeks as the balance in the diets is calculated over a period of time and not necessarily by individual serving. I think I would not switch more often that once a month. That should give each diet sufficient time to have balanced out its highs and lows.

That is my humble opinion.

Godspeed

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#204041 - 01/20/07 12:07 AM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I use the exact same thing and exact method Jessie (Cosmo) does. smile

I will PM you tomorrow Billy. Thanks!

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#204043 - 01/20/07 12:10 AM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ooh, thanks Angel. I think I see both sides as to why it would be beneficial and why it's not a great idea. I think I will attempt to keep them on Elwin's and pray that they love it. If not, then I guess it will be Cosmo and me trying out the highs and lows of the diet changes with Elwins and PP or in my case maybe Leadbeaters.

I appreciate everyone's advice and suggestions. It really did help a lot!

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#204157 - 01/20/07 11:37 AM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
agilitygliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1425
Loc: Orlando/Kissimmee Florida
To tell you the truth I think this is a really touchy subject. I believe to make the most sense out of this and for your piece of mind you should actually talk to your exotic vet that cares for your suggies.

None of us are vets and can only help so much.

All that I have known for years is that we should never switch diets and I will to this day not reccomend it.

I guess I will just watch for your pms.
_________________________
Billy Rodriguez Jr.

Delfuego Kennels in Sunny Florida

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#204161 - 01/20/07 11:48 AM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: agilitygliders]
Anonymous
Unregistered


See that is the thing about my vets ( I use 2 of them at the same exotic vet office). One prefers the layout of Elwins (only w/ yogurt instead of actual calcium supplement) and the other prefers PP's. Neither likes bml due to various reasons. I guess monday I will present them with my feeding ideas and see which they prefer.

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#204278 - 01/20/07 04:44 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mine tells me that it would be okay to switch from Elwin's to PP b/c as mentioned above they are pretty similar give or take a few things that Cosmo listed. He told me that if I just stick to one kind of calcium supp. like Rep-Cal from Elwins or TPGC from PP that it should be okay.

I don't know... Again, this is just asking for advice in case Elwin's falls through. That's what I'm using right now. I'm just preparing myself for the worst: them hating it in 2 weeks.

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#204308 - 01/20/07 05:27 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Paula0442 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Williamsburg, VA & Whg, WV
This is the first I've heard of Elwin's. Have I been that out of the loop lately?
I'm intrigued, so where do I find it?
_________________________
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming
WOOOO HOOOO, WHAT A RIDE!!!



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#204320 - 01/20/07 06:03 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: Paula0442]
agilitygliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1425
Loc: Orlando/Kissimmee Florida
I have also never heard of this diet which is why I am holding back a bit. Who is Elwin?
_________________________
Billy Rodriguez Jr.

Delfuego Kennels in Sunny Florida

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#204321 - 01/20/07 06:06 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: Paula0442]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Paula, Elwin's diet is referenced on several sites, but, for instance, the link from the angelfire site is broken, and the developer of Elwin's diet seems inaccessible at the moment.

My recommendation is to ask the developers of the various diets you're planning on switching between or among (if you can reach them) and ask their opinions. They know exactly how they developed their diets, and how they should be fed, and would know best how alternating with other diets might affect the gliders.

If all that's really being changed is the presentation (the vitamins and calcium and foods offered are pretty much the same), I would think it would be okay, but I'm certainly no expert!
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#204323 - 01/20/07 06:09 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: KattyM]
agilitygliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1425
Loc: Orlando/Kissimmee Florida
Very good point Katty!
_________________________
Billy Rodriguez Jr.

Delfuego Kennels in Sunny Florida

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#204332 - 01/20/07 06:23 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: agilitygliders]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I tried to reach the webmaster of the site that had the diet and she told me that the breeder has not been reachable for a while now. I forwarded her my mass amount of questions and have not gotten a reply yet.

It seems to be going well now but probably b/c I mix up the protein every night. Maybe that will keep them stimulated enough to want to stick with it. Keeping my fingers crossed.

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#204345 - 01/20/07 06:43 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here's a link to Elwin's Fresh Food Diet

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#204359 - 01/20/07 07:21 PM Re: Switching Diets Every Once and While??? [Re: ]
Paula0442 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Williamsburg, VA & Whg, WV
Thanks Katty and Jazzy. I read thru it but wasn't overly impressed. I'm just a good ole BML fan I guess. thumb
_________________________
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming
WOOOO HOOOO, WHAT A RIDE!!!



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