Sugar Glider Community Calendar

Please click here to see larger view
Articles
More coming soon!!
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Featured Member
bae
bae
Registered: 08/31/17
Posts: 17
Last 10 Posts
Fruits and Veggies
by Srlb
Yesterday at 08:15 PM
Little Roxie
by kidqwik
Yesterday at 07:41 PM
Is newspaper safe?
by Ladymagyver
Yesterday at 06:47 PM
Custom Cage Liners Machine Wash & Dry
by kidqwik
Yesterday at 06:14 PM
Taking your glider to work
by Amanda159
Yesterday at 06:07 PM
Seeking a Bra Baby Glider for PTSD
by Mio
Yesterday at 01:09 PM
Sick glider- post surgery decline
by the gliders angel
Yesterday at 05:43 AM
gr8pots
by Terry
10/16/17 09:21 PM
Gliders of the Round Table 5
by KarenE
10/16/17 10:10 AM
Can sugar gliders live in darkness or do they need a light in the day time?
by KarenE
10/16/17 10:05 AM
Google+

Facebook
Join Us On Facebook
Topic Options
#212731 - 02/04/07 11:14 AM Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quite often, when a joey is not doing well and there are some signs of possible rejection, the question is brought up as to whether to hand raise or simply supplement feed the joey. On Friday, I was faced with this dilemma myself. Coobah & Carina's joeys (twin boys) came oop on Thursday, 2/01/07. They appeared somewhat smaller than usual for Carina's joeys and so I was a bit concerned but not alarmed. On Friday, after attending a funeral in the morning, I got home just before noon and checked on the joeys right away. Sadly, I found one of the boys already dead and cold in the pouch, simply being ignored by Coobah and Carina. The surviving twin was crying but it was a weak hissing sound instead of the normal, strong joey cry I am used to hearing. I took him out of the pouch and looked him over. He appeared more wrinkly than he should and was in the beginning stages of dehydration. So, what to do? Supplement or pull completely? I immediately started giving him Pedialyte and struggled to get him to drink a few drops. For the first two hours, I continued to offer him Pedialyte every 15-30 minutes until I was able to get him to take .25 cc's in one feeding. Then I tried to put him back in with Carina & Coobah. Although they immediately cleaned him, Carina would not allow him near her pouch. I inspected her pouch and it appeared healthy. Why was she not willing to feed him? Was he just too weak? Questions abounded, but no apparent answers were available. When she turned her back on him entirely, I took him back out of their nesting pouch and placed him inside my bra, wrapped up in a nice fleece blanket for added warmth.
For the first day, I fed him every hour around the clock. By midday yesterday, I was able to cut the feedings back to every two hours. Periodically, I would try to put him back into the nesting pouch with Carina & Coobah, only to have them react the same way - initially clean him with frenzy, then completely ignore him. I continued to feed him and placed him in an incubator during the night so I could get a bit of sleep between feedings. This morning, I was totally exhausted from the rigorous schedule of waking & feeding him around the clock for 2 days/nights straight.
At 8:30 this morning, after feeding him .5 cc's of formula, I once again tried to put him in with Coobah & Carina. Praise God! This time they were willing to take care of him. He has been with them for the past 2.5 hours except for during the brief feeding at 10:30 when I had him. Carina still isn't feeding him, but she is cuddling him and keeping him warm. I will continue to feed him every two hours and hopefully they will take care of him in between times, but I will be keeping a very close eye/ear on them to make sure he's not being ignored.
Here are a couple of pictures that I took of him yesterday afternoon mlove

I have named him Burnum, which is Australian Aboriginal and means "A Great Warrior" because he has certainly fought to survive!
So, to answer the original question: hand raise or supplement? The answer is not simply cut & dried - only close observation of the parents' behavior with the joey can truly answer that question. By continuing to give them the opportunity to continue caring for the joey, I was able to keep them familiar with his smell so that he was still acceptable to them. Had I noticed any aggression towards him at all, I would have immediately stopped the "visitations" but since they continued to have initial interest, I continued to give them the opportunity to take him back. I believe that he was too weak on Friday and yesterday and so they simply gave up on him; however, this morning, he was much stronger and so they have renewed hope for him and were willing to start caring for him again. Whether Carina will start allowing him to nurse again is another question entirely. It is possible that after 2 days she no longer is producing milk and I may have to continue to feed him around the clock for her. Only time will tell...
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

Top
#212765 - 02/04/07 12:18 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I will keep you and the little joey in my thoughts and prayers, He is in the best capable hands! Keep us updated on his progress!

Top
#213078 - 02/05/07 12:23 AM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


He IS in the best capable hands! I agree wholeheartedly with Laura...

You and him will be in my thoughts and prayers....

Top
#213805 - 02/06/07 02:24 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Although we both tried really hard, Burnum just gave up the fight cry cry cry I tried everything, but just couldn't get him to make it. He was doing really well until this morning and then he took a turn for the worse...
need_hug
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

Top
#213851 - 02/06/07 04:10 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: sugarglidersuz]
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1732
Loc: Utah
I'm so sorry suz you have been such a great help to me with my little one. Just know that you did everything you could for this little guy.

Top
#213898 - 02/06/07 05:04 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: silverwolf]
tbull Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3884
Loc: Wyoming
I'm so sorry for your loss. hug2
_________________________
T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*


Top
#213902 - 02/06/07 05:11 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: sugarglidersuz]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Oh, Suz! I'm so so sorry!
cry
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

Top
#213910 - 02/06/07 05:26 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Suz, I'm so sorry. cry
Sending lots of hugs and prayers your way. hug2 hug2 hug2

Top
#213913 - 02/06/07 05:33 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ]
FURBYnGIZMO Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 3295
Loc: Chicago, IL

Suz, it's so sad to see you type in blue upset

I'm so use to your signature green

More HUGS sent your way hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2

_________________________
dance Jenny

Furby -- Kalila -- Deuce -- Gizmo

Furby :grey: Kalila :wfb: Deuce :leu:

Gizmo :rbridge:


Top
#213916 - 02/06/07 05:37 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh Suz Im so sorry...he had the best chance he could have got with you but I guess it just wasnt meant to be. Sending you a big overseas hug hug2

Top
#213940 - 02/06/07 06:31 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
I am so sorry for your loss. I know very well what that feels like. I have never had one live for 5 days and die. I have put them back in with the parents for the duration even though I feed them round the clock. I do feed my joeys every 1.5 hours apart until they are 7 days old and then increase to 2 hours. Many times we get tired with the feedings and feed them too quickly and it goes into their lungs. It is very hard to regulate. I am so sorry.
_________________________
ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL

Top
#213943 - 02/06/07 06:33 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ]
dranger1108 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 2501
Loc: Parsons, Kansas
I'm so sorry Suz hug2
_________________________

:grey: Michelle's Sugar Glider Babies & Toys :wfb:
USDA licensed breeder
http://www.freewebs.com/michellesugarbabytoys/index.htm
Neat glider themed products!
:glider: http://www.zazzle.com/dranger1108/products :glider:

Top
#214005 - 02/06/07 08:21 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: dranger1108]
mattysmom Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1234
Loc: Tarpon Springs, FL
I'm sorry to hear this little one didn't make it. You tried your best. I did discover recently - while reading about hand raising rejected hedgehog babies - that it is very, very important to mimic the mother's cleaning process which stimulates their digestive system. I use a cotton ball dipped in warm water and rub their tummies until it is "obvious" that their digestive system is working. You also have to make sure you don't underfeed or overfeed. It's really difficult to raise them by hand from their first day but who can not try?
_________________________
Moira & Matty & my zoo

Top
#214009 - 02/06/07 08:29 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: mattysmom]
Anonymous
Unregistered


oh my gosh...although I don't know you personally Suz, I DO know if YOU couldn't help him stay here....then it really wasn't meant to be.....our condolances for your loss.....we are so sorry....

Top
#214063 - 02/06/07 09:45 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


so sorry for your loss. sending love and hugs.

Top
#214068 - 02/06/07 09:53 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


OOPS....we forgot this



[size:20pt]HUG!!!!!!![/color]

Top
#214237 - 02/07/07 06:26 AM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Now that my emotions aren't quite as raw as they were yesterday, I can try to post a bit more information about what happened yesterday.
First, I want to start by saying that I truly believe, in retrospect, that there was something truly wrong with this joey (and his twin) from the start. Carina is normally such a strong and very joey-protective mother, that to have her actually reject her joeys is a shock and a definite indicator of something being seriously wrong. I know that she is in excellent health and has no problems with milk production nor does she have any type of pouch infection right now. Therefore, the problem HAD to have been with the joeys' health to begin with.
There are many who would say that I should have just let nature take its course from the beginning rather than trying to save the life of little Burnum. On an intellectual level, I can agree with this philosophy; however, being a nurturer/rescuer personality type, it's just foreign to me not to try my utmost to try to save any little one in distress.
As for Burnum, in particular, I knew right away yesterday morning that he had taken a turn for the worse and that it was very likely that he wouldn't make it. I have successfully hand-raised and supplement-fed quite a few joeys in my 4 years of breeding, so I know all about not feeding joeys too often, massaging them to help with digestion, etc., etc., etc. I'm not saying that I know everything there is to know, just explaining that I have a lot of experience in this area (unfortunately). In spite of my efforts, little Burnum just wasn't meant to survive, and that's what I have to face and accept. Much as I wanted him to, much as I pleaded with God, the fact of the matter is: there was something wrong with him and it was beyond my control. I'm not God and I can't change the course of fate...
Anyway, I'm starting to ramble and probably just repeating myself and not making much sense, so I'll end this now.

Thank you all for your support and encouragement. I really appreciate it! hug2 hug2 hug2
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

Top
#214248 - 02/07/07 07:43 AM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: sugarglidersuz]
WholeheartMom Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 250
Loc: Reading to my girls in Florida
Suz, how beautiful your heart and soul are! You truly are the rejected joey's friend and saviour, not only to your babies personally, but to the hundreds of other joeys whom you have helped second handedly.

So many times you have selflessly given of your time and shared your many years of wisdom with others who are struggling and lost without a clue as to how to help their little rejected joey, and you have ALWAYS been there, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Consider yourself a part of every joey who has been saved through your sage wisdom and selfless generosity in sharing it. One of those joeys who you have helped is my little Blondie girl, who is thriving and healthy thanks to your willingness to help.

Little Burnam was one very lucky boy! He had the best angel in the world looking after him, but sometimes even the best cannot create a miracle, especially if it is just not meant to be. But you did make a difference... A huge one! He had warmth, love and sustenance as well as prayers and blessings. Every rejected joey should be so lucky...

Hugs to you from us and from all the joeys whom you have been a part of!

p.s. Blondie says "ssst,ssst, Me iz up to 18 gwams now and I am uh sweetee"
_________________________
I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!

Top
#214357 - 02/07/07 12:17 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: WholeheartMom]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
my heart and prayers remain with you suz
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

Top
#214383 - 02/07/07 01:18 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: Bourbon]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh Suz I am so sorry. He was so lucky to have you. I can only imagine how u must feel right now and my prayers go out to you.

Top
#214465 - 02/07/07 03:08 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Suz *MASSIVE HUGS*

You have always been there for me with the past loss of our rejected babies. I bugged you to pieces this last time but thanks to you we have Sarah Ann. She wouldn't be here if you didn't hold me up through this. Thanks to you she is now going on 7 weeks old and healthy.

I am so sorry this happened to you of all people who give of themself so freely to help others in this situation. It is obvious something was wrong with the joey in this situation. I know you did everything you could.

The joey was beautiful, only God knows and it's mama what was wrong on the inside, something us humans can never see or know.

Know that you have saved many many joeys and helped others like me save a joey.

You are truly a Glider angel, a blessing to us all and are always there to help when we need you. Now it's your turn.

You may never know how much you are truly loved although I've never met you and may never, I Love you. ..as many others here do I'm sure.

God Bless you and I pray your heart has more peace everyday.

_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

Top
#214751 - 02/07/07 11:53 PM Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Anonymous
Unregistered


oh suz, i am sooo sorry everytime i see a post on rejected joey's you are always the first one to either reply or you are the one that everyone suggests talk to. (sorry if that didn't make sence i wasn't sure how to put it) i hope that your next joeys go a little smoother. ((HUGS)) for now.

Top




Moderator:  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver, Philwojo 
Sugar Glider Help Page



Please click above to see how you can help!!

Moon
CURRENT MOON
Who's Online
1 registered (Ladymagyver), 48 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Owner, Admin, Mod
Newest Members
aalissa, Mio, Immelh, PipersMom, Bravo
6381 Registered Users
Forum Stats
25 posts in the last 24hrs
6382 Members
134 Forums
8893 Topics
147817 Posts

Max Online: 478 @ 07/15/07 01:24 AM
Last 10 New Topics
Little Roxie
by kidqwik
Yesterday at 06:57 PM
Is newspaper safe?
by Glamper
Yesterday at 06:39 PM
Taking your glider to work
by Amanda159
Yesterday at 05:08 PM
Fruits and Veggies
by Amanda159
Yesterday at 05:06 PM
Seeking a Bra Baby Glider for PTSD
by Mio
10/16/17 05:32 PM
gr8pots
by Feather
10/16/17 05:20 PM
Beads wooden are they safe?
by tootles
10/14/17 06:20 PM
Can sugar gliders live in darkness or do they need a light in the day time?
by Link
10/14/17 01:53 PM
One Year
by Stef333
10/14/17 09:16 AM
Too Soon To Say Goodbye, my Lulu
by Terry
10/13/17 08:23 PM
(Views)Popular Topics
I just found a lump on Timmy's chest--HELP! 20202907
Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts 12464864
TEXAS 645031
Pitbull biter needs advice/help 587314
OHIO 503975
Member Titles 447971
MISSOURI 382293
HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's 358684
OKLAHOMA 343285
URGENT - Genetic Flaw discovered 341162
Supported Browser
This site was tested and is best viewed in Google Chrome & Mozilla FireFox



Firefox 3

Download your copy today!!!


GliderCENTRAL
©1998-2017