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#22052 - 06/11/04 10:37 AM strange sound, and unlarged cloaca
Anonymous
Unregistered


Last night my baby made that weird cry/crab sound, just once. then I went and picked her up and noticed that her cloaca about the size of a "BB" from a BB-Gun. I stayed up with her for a while and checked it again later and it had become smaller. This morning it is completely normal sized, back to just being able to see the very center surrounded by fur. I came her to ask about this and ran into Burbons post on SM's and that got me scared.

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#22053 - 06/11/04 10:44 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
I would definetly recommend a vet visit asap on this one. Have some tests ran and make sure all is well. That is definitely not normal and if I am wrong I hope someone clears it up for me.
_________________________
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If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

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#22054 - 06/11/04 10:46 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Something similar happened to my glider Sebastian. His was red very irritated, and enlarged. Turned out there was something really wrong, the vet gave me three different meds for him and in less than a week he was all better. I would take him to the vet it could be serious, it could turn out to be nothing, I would check just to be sure. Best of luck to you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#22055 - 06/11/04 01:49 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Critter Creations Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 3398
Loc: Rock Falls, IL, USA
You glider is Self mutilating. You need to get her to a vet ASAP. Here is a link to a website that will show you how to make an e-collar. E-collar You need to get this on your glider ASAP or she will do much more damage. These glider have been knon to chew to the point of exposing organs and by then it's very hard to save them. Here is a questionaire you can fill out to get help from the SM board Questionaire . Here is some phone numbers of people that can help you Contacts The very first thing to do is to get that E-collar made and get it on her. Then make a vet appointment for today. Then fill out the quesionaire and possibly contact one of the contacts to get some information on what tests the vet should take as a lot of vets do not know what to do with a Self Mutilator. Sometimes if you can find a problem such as a UTI and you can get it treated and cured the glider will be fine after that. That is why they need to take some tests to find out what is going on. I can't stress enough how fast you need to get these things done. She can do a ton of damage in a short amount of time. Please do these things or you will lose your glider. On the contacts link there is some information about SM's and I recommend reading that and it even has a list of tests your vet should run while you are there. I hope this helps and please keep us updated on what happens. Your glider will be in my thoughts and prayers. Please do not take this lightly and do not wait for a second person to come on and agree with me just get it done. I don't want to sound rude, but people have done this and by the time they did what they were told it was too late. So please heed this warning.
_________________________
Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics


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#22056 - 06/12/04 08:32 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Is it definately self mutilating? Couldn't it be anything else at all?

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#22057 - 06/12/04 08:40 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Critter Creations Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 3398
Loc: Rock Falls, IL, USA
this sound is a tell tale sign of self mutilating and the the area that is swollen is an area that is very common in self mutilators. Even if it was something else I wouldn't take the chance until i had them seen by a vet and treated for anything that may be wrong. I can't see it being anything else because what they are describing is indicative of a SM. I personally wouldn't take the rare chance that it isn't SM.
Any updates on this glider? I e-mailed you too, but my e-mail is not working right now so I don't know if you e-mailed me back? I sure hope everything is ok.
_________________________
Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics


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#22058 - 06/12/04 01:28 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank You!....Maxi has not been making funny sounds anymore. Also her cloaca is not red or discolored in any way ...Though it did seem larger than normal. I have been checking it periodically, about 3 or 4 times a day, since I first noticed it. I wikll keep doing this for the next week and should it become discolored I will take her immedaitly to the vet. she has had UTI before, or so the vet says, bvecause her the Ph of her urine was very high and the vet found indication of white blood cells present in the urine as well. however these symptoms were accompanied by very frequent crab/hissing during all hours of the day and frequent urination. These symptoms have not manifested as of yet.

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#22059 - 06/12/04 02:40 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
As Kand D stated, get a collar on her, don't wait till she does major damage, have her tested asap. the strange sound has only been heard from SM's. now you can take the chance that everything is okay, or you can take a chance at preventing a horrible death, the choice is yours, .. there are enough people on here that have seen lately, that this is nothing to play games with.

the females, if diagnosed and treated usually has a great success rate, however once damage is done, the chances fall to close to nil.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#22060 - 06/12/04 10:49 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Critter Creations Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 3398
Loc: Rock Falls, IL, USA
If she has a UTI maybe it isn't as advanced as it was the last time and there is not reason to let it get that advanced in the mean time. This sound is very very indicative of a SM and females usually do it for a medical reason and if she has had a UTI before then it's a good possibility that she has another. You could take her to the vet and at least have her checked out to make sure her tests are clear. What type of cage does she have? What type of wire is it made out of? Sometimes certain wire types can cause UTI's. Please get an e-collar on her and get her to the vet to get her checked out. If everything comes back clear than what have you lost? Nothing and you will have peace of mind knowing she is ok. I'm afraid that if you wait on these things than the situation could get very bad. Please don't wait. We would love it if you kept us updated as well. I will keep her in my thoughts and prayers until we know for sure she is ok.
_________________________
Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics


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#22061 - 06/12/04 10:58 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> [:"magenta"]please, please put an ecollar on her. and keep it on her until you get to a vet. bourbon and kandd are right. too many people have had their sg start to mutilate, get better, then start to mutilate again. if there is no collar on her, she could chew herself to death. do not take chances with this. for instructions on making an ecollar go to www.gliderhealth.com and click on "self-mutilation." [/]

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#22062 - 06/13/04 02:41 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with the others. The vet is really the only answer for your baby.......do you have an e-collar? You really need to get one if you don't already have one. You don't want to wait till its too late to get one......
Good luck and let us know what the vet says. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#22063 - 06/13/04 01:30 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
It could be that others on this thread know more about this situation than was stated, but what is driving the assumption that this glider is self-mutilating? I know that there is a pained sound in the self-mutilation cry that is almost diagnostic, but from the description, I can't tell that the cry/crab youssef heard is the same kind of sound. In the absence of other symptoms, am I missing something?

I haven't been through the horrors of a self-mutilating glider, so I'm asking this for education purposes. Would you put an ecollar on a glider on the basis of a cry, and/or a swollen cloaca, without any sign of mutliaton?
_________________________


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#22064 - 06/13/04 01:36 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Critter Creations Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 3398
Loc: Rock Falls, IL, USA
Well that cry/crab sound is exactly what it sounds like and the swollen cloaca area is a tell tale sign as well that she was at some point chewing on herself in that area just enought o cause some swelling and irritation. She may have stopped for a period and that is why the swelling has went down, but that doesn't mean that she won't do it again if whatever caused her to do this isn't fixed. It's not normal for a sugar glider to have a swollen cloaca area at all. This is really known well in SM's. I guess I may be wrong, but this really strikes me as a SM and I can't think of one other thing that would have caused what they are describing.
_________________________
Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics


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#22065 - 06/13/04 04:36 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Lucy, the indicitive symptoms, the strange sound, the swollen cloacal area, is enough for those of us who have experienced it, to say put a collar on as a preventivie measure, the reasons are simple and clear, the collar will not kill the glider if it is not a sm, without the collar,if an sm, this glider may die, now there are enough posts from other users, who also waited, did not get the collar on, and their glider suffered a very agonizing painful and horrible death. they then come back on to tell others not to take a chance, to get the collar on at the first signs.

for educational purposes, maybe you can start by reading some of the latest sm postings, and the results of the actions. This is not my glider, therefore, my advice would be to protect it at all costs, see a vet.

IF it were my glider, I would have an e-collar on it, have the vet diagnose and treat it. I wouldn't wait till it chewed a hole till i thought it was necessary.

here is one of the latest posts.

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=231798

and you may be interested in the follow up.

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=232455

maybe you need the experience of having an sm, to understand the undertaking, the risks, and the pain. many others are learning from the experience of others misfortunes.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#22066 - 06/13/04 04:49 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> [:"magenta"]i have no sgs yet, and i hope and pray i never have to deal with sm. however, even i would not want to take a chance with this! as bourbon said, the ecollar will not kill the sg. but sm can! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> i have sent a pm to the person who started this thread, begging him to ecollar his sg and take her to a vet asap. but unfortunately, i have received no response. i hope he has not responded because he is at the vet's. hopefully he will update soon.[/]

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#22067 - 06/16/04 08:15 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Took her to the vet today after a marathon last night with Burbon and Danielle from K&D exotics. they stayed with from 1:15am to nearly 3:45am trying to get a collar on her. the vet gave NO solid indications of a problem OR direction of treatment....

FINDINGS:

karatones and epithelial cells present in urine
Cells had 60% loss of nucleus.
Standard PH
FEcal: nothing
Slide Stain: nothing
No sign of yeast

Diagnosis: Possibly she is stuck in estrus.
CNS sent off.

Update on condition: She is sleeping quietly. No "sound" from her. Have checked her cloaca, it is normal in color and approx the correct "size".

I hope this vet uses the web site glider health as he knows VERY little about gliders. he mentioned checking V.I.N.S
or something like that ..... I gave him the web site, but he did not write it down. All of his explaniations referd to ferrets and Cats.....Great!LOL!

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#22068 - 06/22/04 12:09 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


An Update for everyone. maxi is doing only slightly better. while there is not swelling or "visible" irritation she did make "the sound" last night and pulled a little. I got the e-collar on and gave her a little torbu and let her be for awhile, then removed the collar to allow her to eat. then put the collar back on before I crashed. Today I got her cage set up for being in an e-collar, a bird feeder for her BML and shortened the height of the cage by stretching a towel across the inside and pinning it, just until I can get some painted mesh. On Wensday believe it or not she is going for a sonogram. this is due to all her tests comming be NEGATIVE...We are going to attempt to see if there are any cysts on her ovaries, byt the way how many do they have?
Both Burbon and Daniellle have been extremely helpful, I don't know what I would have done without them. Everytime I want to let my gaurd down they remind me to stay vigil. Thank You!

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#22069 - 06/22/04 12:21 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Critter Creations Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 3398
Loc: Rock Falls, IL, USA
This man is doing everything it takes to find out how to cure his sweet little baby. Not all owners will go to all the lengths you must with a SM when it comes right down to it and this owner is. He is losing sleep and spending tons of money to try and help his baby. Not all owners will do that. He really should be commended for all he is doing. Keep us the good work and we are here for you no matter what. Keep us all updated to. Maxi and you are in our thoughts and prayers.
_________________________
Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics


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#22070 - 06/22/04 12:30 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
gliderdad79 Offline
Owner

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 15514
Loc: Long Island, NY
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> I commend you on all you are doing for Maxi. Not to many people have what it takes to do what your doing. My thoughts and prayers are with you and Maxi. Please keep us posted, and keep up the great kob you are doing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!

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#22071 - 06/22/04 03:30 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Will be interesting to hear what the ultra sound reveals.

Wonder, if the ultra sound comes up negative....is it possible for a glider to suffer possible bouts of severe constipation which would lead to all of these symptoms?
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#22072 - 06/22/04 09:09 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Judie, the results of the normal keytones, and the large amounts of anuculated cells, is very indicitive of a glider coming into estrus, the problem is she has been in it far too long, this would indicate a problem in the reproductive areas. The diagnosis by the vet was confirmed by several vets, and many suggestions were made.

Maxi is getting the best possible care, the vet is very interested in finding out what is going on with her.

Youssef has many options, although not one of them is cut and dry, at least they are options.

in other animals the breeding of the female may alleviate and sometimes make the cycts go away, but as we had discussed, that since the hormeones are already out of whack, what would happen when she was bred?, then again how would she react if she lost the joeys? so emotionally, there are risks.. Also he really doesn't want another glider and he surely doesn't want to breed, so we also discussed maybe borrowing a male, and mating her, but then we have to deal again with the phycolocal aspects, if she had fallen in love then separated them.

A spaying, although not common is very possible, while the spaying is taking place they can explore the area to see if they find anything out of the norm with her. remove it at that time.

A sonagram, and by the looks of things his vet did find a place to do it for him, this is probaly the least invasive of all the suggestions.

last but not least, to just let her go, and try to deal with this episodes when they happen, which he said is not an option, as she is obviously in pain, and discomfort.

Nothing at this point is a guarantee, we were hoping when the results came back for the tests that something could be found, but alas, at this point it is a matter of trying different testing procedures, to help find the problem. Then work on the cure.

Youssef, I to want to commend you on your viligence to stay with her through these tough times, and you are doing an exceptional job, I see with the collar coming on and off now, that you pretty much have that down. Again I say do not drop your guard,

Keep up the good work Youssef, and you know that you and Maxi is in our prayers.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#22073 - 06/22/04 11:06 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


New update<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" />:

No ultra sound...the tool that does the imaging is not small enough to do a suggie it is alomost as wide as the suggie!...how ever anmother vet using a slightly different machine has gotten good images of Bat fetus, but lets be realistic a bat fetus is still a lot larger than a SG ovary which is lets face it is about the size of 2 grains of rice and then to be able to identify a growth on that the odds are not grwat!!!!

So the C and S showed NO fungal growth, but we are now running a Sub-culture of the bacteria to see what turns up. I will update when I get these results!

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#22074 - 06/22/04 11:23 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Youssef-I applaud the lengths you have gone to for your little Maxi-you're a great glider parent! I understand about the ultrasound being too big-so frustrating. I've heard recently that several areas in the country now have MRI machines for small animals - they've even done kittens, rats and birds. They temp. put them under like for a neuter to take the scan. Wondering if this could possibly be an option? (If there is one close to your area, that is). And I have no clue what it would cost, but have heard that they're extremely detailed and accurate on a pretty small scale now. Keeping you and Maxi in our prayers, and keep up the good work!
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#22075 - 06/23/04 12:15 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Critter Creations Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 3398
Loc: Rock Falls, IL, USA
I sure wish these tests would show something so there was something to work with. I agree that you are going to every length there is to go through and I commend you for that. I still have maxi and you in my thoughts and prayers and I so appreciate you keeping us all up to date on what is happening. This is one of those SM cases where so far there doesn't seem like much of a reason for it. So far she hasn't done any damage yet so that is encouraging. Her owner has been great at keeping the e-collar on her to prevent this form happening. Everyone please keep maxi in their prayers as she really needs it right now.
_________________________
Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics


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#22076 - 06/23/04 10:41 AM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


what about gas, Tis was brought to my attention last night by the really nice lady that runs this board, Part of my diet lima beans which I cut into pieces, it comes in the mix! When I wake her up at night she sits very still on my hand a does her business. So I get to watch up close and have been doing so for several nights. I have notice little tiny poping sounds, but they are comming from the other end!!!!<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" />

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#22077 - 06/23/04 08:59 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I updated the other night, but it seems to have not posted!.....NO ultrasound, the tech did not have a small enough "wand" to do a glider. So another vet has equip that can get an image as small as a bat fetus, but lets face it a bat fetus is probably 5x bigger than a SG ovary. so we have called the LAb to do a Sub culture on the feces to check the bacteria load, and look for strep and staph and also to check HOW MUCH of the good bacteria there is.
Another possibity we I did not consider until it was mentioned was maybe she has GAS!

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#22078 - 06/23/04 09:00 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


WELL!! Doesn't that state something!! Lima beans are a no-no...I fed them some for a couple nights before I found out. I hope she gets better soon!!! Kudos to you for your efforts!!

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#22079 - 06/24/04 10:58 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Update<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" />

Got the C&S back on the bacteria :

Findings : enterobacter aerogenes(bacterial): lots of it Perscribed Meds: SMZ-tmp

Should be noted that this bacteria according to the vet is part of the NORMAL flora found in healthy gliders.

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#22080 - 06/24/04 11:53 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
SugarBaby22 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 5697
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
So what does this mean? Is your sweetie going to be okay?
_________________________
Linda

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#22081 - 06/24/04 11:58 PM Re: strange sound, and unlarged cloaca [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


she should be just fine! for now!

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