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#223804 - 02/24/07 08:34 AM Best BML version?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have heard it was

http://www.toandfrogliders.com/FileHierarchy/InfoPouch/NewJoeyOwners/SupplyLinks/BML.htm

but I would like to hear other experienced peoples suggestions. Is this version alright?

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#223810 - 02/24/07 08:51 AM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
In my opinion the very best BML version is the Back to Basics version that is listed in the GC diet links. The other versions (such as Judie's that you have linked to) are definitely accepted more readily by the gliders, but there has been some question as to their nutritional completeness and possible illness complications due to the change of juices and wide variety of fruits & veggies that don't necessarily regulate the Calcium to Phosphorus ratios properly. It is for this reason that Bourbon reposted her Back to Basics version and is now recommending it instead of the variations that gained popularity.

To get your gliders to eat the Back to Basics BML:
1) For the first two weeks, only put the BML mix into the cage in the evening (when the gliders are at their hungriest). Then put the fruits, veggies & insects in during the early morning hours the next day (about 2-3 hours before they go to sleep for the day).
2) After the two weeks is up, you can start to put the fruits & veggies in during the evening along with the BML. Still continue to offer the insects in the early morning. Keep in mind that the insects are for "brushing" the gliders' teeth, not for nutritional content. That's why they should be offered in the morning (just like we brush our teeth before bedtime).
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#223813 - 02/24/07 09:01 AM Re: Best BML version? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Anonymous
Unregistered


thank you very much for the input, it's very helpful.

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#223865 - 02/24/07 10:53 AM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
CritterHill Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4236
Loc: Illinois, USA
I don't think the links are working at the moment, so here is the Recipe: Back To Basics BML
_________________________
The Sugar Glider Store

Critter Hill

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#223887 - 02/24/07 12:02 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: CritterHill]
Anonymous
Unregistered


your right so i looked it up in google and got

http://www.sugargliderinfo.com/NutritionAndDiets/leadbeat.html

thats the one right? thanks a lot!!!

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#223890 - 02/24/07 12:06 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Actually, check out the one that CritterHill gave. It's the back to basics one, and it's the only BML that Bourbon (the B in BML) endorses. It's similar, but there are a few select differences.

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#223895 - 02/24/07 12:45 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


the pics for it aren't working? but that ones the best?

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#223897 - 02/24/07 12:50 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I haven't had the pictures work for me, either, but they are just pictures of the ingredient itself, so it's not like you are missing that much.
That is the ONLY real BML there is, and yes, is the best one of that.

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#223912 - 02/24/07 01:13 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


they both say bourbon on top tho... did someone just copy and paste it? i do realize that the diets are slightly different. I just liked the pictures so i could see exactly what to get. (like pink label with white plastic) just to make sure im getting the right one incase there is a different one that doesnt do the same thing.

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#223916 - 02/24/07 01:22 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
CritterHill Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4236
Loc: Illinois, USA
They both contain the same ingredients so you can use the pictures from the one you posted as a reference when making the Back to Basics BML I posted.

The Back to Basics BML is just mixed slightly differently, I think it makes it sweeter. The Back to Basics BML also lists the correct fruits and veggies to feed with the BML. They are both designed by Bourbon, she just made some slight alteration to make it clearer for the owners and better for the gliders in BtB version.
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Critter Hill

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#223917 - 02/24/07 01:23 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Technically, both are BML.
The back to basics version (link CritterHill posted) is the ORIGINAL mixing.
Over the years, Bourbon made some allowances. Specifically, the use of different vitamins when the repcal couldn't be found, the use of extra calcium sources--like the egg shell, and the variety of fruits and veggies. After seeing more and more gliders with health issues, she went back to endorsing the original mixing only. This is the one that was originally scrutinized and tested, so only this mix and these fruits and veggies have actually been studied. I'm only giving a shortened version, and if you want more info, I'd suggest contacting Bourbon (that's her name on this site as well) and asking any specific questions you may have.
As far as the pictures on the one site, they are the same items you would use with the mixing in the back to basics version.
Most everything in the diet can be purchased at any grocery store. The vitamins are at pet stores, but I usually order online as it tends to be cheaper--even after shipping. Also, if you are unable to order things online (like no credit card,paypal, etc), and can't find it at a pet store, you can either ask the pet store to get it in for you, or I'm sure there are other members could work something out with you over snail mail (like sending a check or well concealed money).

As far as online stores for the vitamins, many vendors here sell it (can't remember who exactly, they can chime in on that)
I get mine from www.underbid.com (do a search for herptivite, both will come up, and then you get it through them from another store--I believe entirelypets.com)
reptiledirect.com and reptilesupply.com are also supposed to be good.

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#223919 - 02/24/07 01:25 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
CritterHill Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4236
Loc: Illinois, USA
I sell the BML vitamins also here: http://www.thesugargliderstore.com/Vitamins.html
_________________________
The Sugar Glider Store

Critter Hill

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#223990 - 02/24/07 03:56 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: CritterHill]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
The main difference with the back-to-basics BML plan, is the specific list of veggies and fruits. The list of veggies includes green beans, peas, carrots, and corn. The list of fruits includes watermelon, melon, cantaloupe, grapes (seedless), apples, blueberries, and pitted cherries.

As Suz and others have noted, the wide variations and modifications in what fruits and veggies are offered throws off the overall calcium to phosphorus (Ca:P) ratios, as well as introducing other unhealthy imbalances.

Here's a recent thread, Iron in baby foods, that might interest you. A lot goes into developing this and other healthy glider diets. When you make changes to the diet, you're basically offering your version of the diet, not the original diet as "prescribed."
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
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#224321 - 02/25/07 10:59 AM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


From what I understand SunCoast just had a news letter come out about grapes, and how it seems that gliders who eat grapes tend to die at an early age compaired to ones who do not have them. I stop using grapes because until I find more out about this issue. also Corn isn't such a great thing either it's Phros. Ratio is really high, and doesn't really digest either. Personally I emailed Bourbon and for 2 weeks now I have tried to reach her, she still has not contacted me. Which makes me really wonder about things and not understand why she has not gotten back to me. I am trying to ask her some questions about her diet but like I said she never gets back to me. When I contact the other people who have made diets, I got answers right away. Any ways, grapes and corn so far are an issue and personally i will not use them. I am looking into changing diets.

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#224353 - 02/25/07 11:53 AM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i appreciate your input and everything, i personally tried to pm bourbon but her email or whatever was full it said. so im guessing shes a real busy person haha. but keep me up to date and thank you, i wont feed my gliders grapes.

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#224422 - 02/25/07 01:59 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The newsarticle about the grapes came out about 1-2 years ago. It scared me at first but then did some more research. It is only the red globed seeded grapes. I can't remember the reasoning behind it. But I have been feeding my gliders red grapes for 5 years and they are all healthy happy and strong.

I also like Judies BML and have fed it for 5 years as well. I don't give anything different then what the gliders on the back to basic BML get, exact same fruits and veggies.

I like both diets though so what ever one you choose is a good choice.

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#224555 - 02/25/07 05:52 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


thanks, just if there is a better one, or what people tend to prefer more is what i'd like to use just because... yeah haha. thanks for the input and if anyone gets ba more definate answer that'd be great. if not ill just use the BML back to basics that this site has.

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#224798 - 02/26/07 12:27 AM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Mine are all on the back-to-basics BML. I don't offer grapes often, but that's because I don't buy them. I was also concerned about the grape controversy when I first read the SunCoast newsletters ( Grape Controversy and Followup on Grapes). Mine still get grapes, but only if I eat out and get some with my meal. Mainly, they're too much work for me to peel and cut up. I'm just a wee bit lazy now and then. tounge (I always peel and deseed everything.)

The corn is high in phosphorus, but the BML has extra calcium in it to compensate. When offered as part of the total diet, the overall Ca:P ratios are what they should be. It's when you begin to toss in other goodies that you start throwing off the ratios. Likewise, if you were to not offer corn at all, you would throw off those ratios, offering too much calcium.
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#225046 - 02/26/07 02:59 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: KattyM]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I understand, how many "kernals" would you give them, say per day, or week. just because i would hate to risk their diet and i know many more of you have had more experience. i appreciate the input, and why do you peel grapes? should i? haha thanks again.

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#225055 - 02/26/07 03:15 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't necessarily count kernals. I think most people just use the frozen stuff that's already mixed. I find one that has no salt added, and so far it's been birdseye mixed veggies. My Walmart doesn't sell them (or anything that I need for my gliders, for that matter), but I've heard their mixed veggies are ok, too.
If I do mix my own, I've always just done equal parts. The reason for the mix it myself thing is that I sometimes just get some frozen components corn (kroger brand-not sure if you have that, but they have no salt), and peas (don't remember the brand, kroger's has salt added). And sometimes I cut fresh green beans and baby carrots. I just mix it myself and do equal ratios--1 cup of each or so.

As far as grapes, some people peel. I don't, my gliders don't eat the peels anyway. I think it has to do with tannins in grapes, and they are more heavily concentrated there--though I could be off, I don't quite remember the reason. My gliders don't eat the peels of anything. I've always got the "shells" of corn, peas, green beans, blueberries, cherries, etc, to pick up every morning.

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#225072 - 02/26/07 03:44 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


thank you for the help. ill have to get a bag of mixed veggies. i probably wont give them too much corn but i will. have you ever thought of putting a bit of honey on your finger and letting them lick it off? i have seen where people have said to do it with yogurt, and i saw that honey is part of the bml. is that a good idea or would you not advise that?

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#225076 - 02/26/07 03:54 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


With the bagged veggies, I just pull out a tablespoon for each glider. The diet is made to compensate for the addition of corn, so don't pull the corn out, just stick with whatever you get.
I don't advise the use of honey, and I don't believe it's an approved treat for BML. I believe you can give yogurt, applesauce, or BML itself are appropriate licky treats.

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#225080 - 02/26/07 04:10 PM Re: Best BML version? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


haha i like how you frazed that. thanks, and fyi my dogs name is sampson.

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