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#225863 - 02/27/07 08:05 PM Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan

I was just wondering what the common view of Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan is.

Has anyone successfully used this diet plan with no ill-effects? Are there any major advantages/disatvantages to it?

#225873 - 02/27/07 08:28 PM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

From what I understand cat food was feed before people really knew what to feed gliders. Now they have aproved diets you can choose from. I wouldn't think cat would have the calcium:phospherus ratios gliders need to be healthy. I would choose a diet from the diets page here on GC. Some one that can explain better should come along, but I'm pretty sure everyone with a little experience would say to choose an approved diet.

#225877 - 02/27/07 08:32 PM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

Looks like the Ca:P ratio in a sample of catfood I found was 9:7. this dosn't sound all that good. However, I would think it would be a good source of protein and other nutrients. But I am no doctor, and I am new... like I said.

Any other input?

So far, back to the basics BML is still sounding like it is the best to me.

#225882 - 02/27/07 08:37 PM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

Don't totally quote me on this, but I believe THAT diet in particular is outdated. There are, however, diets that do include the addition of cat food. I don't feed them, and know nothing about them, though..
I'm a Back to Basic-er, myself, and since my guys love it, I haven't found any reason to try a different diet...

#225895 - 02/27/07 08:48 PM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

IMHO it looks like the "cheap man's sugar gilder diet" seems to be a little skimpish on all the things gilders really need ....IN MY OPINION.....
and shouldn't citrius be avoided? or used in exteme moderation? Dif. Not every day.

I'm a firm beliver in cat's should eat cat food; dogs, dog food; fish, fish on and so fourth....

I'd say check out the diet's link page and I'm sure you can find one that will work better for you and your gilders.

#225994 - 02/27/07 10:59 PM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

I think you will find everyone here will agree with that. I use the BML diet. You can get most of the ingredients at the grocery store, and the ones that arent there are at any petstore that has reptiles. After that, all you need is a blender, a tupperware, and a freezer. Its easy and they actually get to like it.

#226196 - 02/28/07 10:47 AM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

Lol - The Caroline Macpherson diet plan is a proven diet, the ca:p ratio's of most high quality cat foods are very good actually, ranging from 1:1 to 2:1. That is why Caroline chose cat food as a SMALL PART of the diet, because it is one of the few protein sources that does not have an inverted ratio.

I use cat food as part of my diet, it's not because I'm uneducated it's because I've tried a number of diets none of which I was happy with. The cat food is only a SMALL PART of the diet, it should NOT be fed as a complete diet, like feeding nothing but bml you're suggies would suffer! My suggies are big, healthy with a beautiful coat on them.

The arguement cat food is for cats, dog food is for dogs is certainly not valid - afterall we feed our suggies (well not me personally) baby food which is for humans, yogurt which is also for humans, so should we not be giving them these either?

If you were to research HIGH QUALITY cat food ingredients properly you would find many of the ingredients are in Insectivore Fare which is generally an accepted food stuff. Only there's a lot more junk in Insectivore Fare!

If you read THIS thread to the end you will see others as well as myself that use cat food as a part of the diet, and how it works for them too.

Edited by moorie999 (02/28/07 10:49 AM)

#226206 - 02/28/07 11:12 AM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

There are long-used diets that regularly produce large, healthy joeys and support ongoing health in the breeding gliders that contain premium quality cat food as one part.

Very high quality cat food such as Dick Van Patten's ultra premium cat food can be a viable protein source in a diet that also includes plenty of fresh fruits and veggies. This cat food has a positive Ca:p ratio but it is incumbent upon the human to make sure that the other foods, when fed w/the cat food, overall, have a positive Ca:p ratio.

Animals need to eat a diet w/a balanced Ca:p ratio but it is not the only important ratio. Protein, vitamin E and selenium, Vitamin D, iron, copper, magnesium are a few other important ingredients - some of which should not be too high or too low.

When premium cat food is used, 2-4 bits per glider are all that is fed. Gliders cannot eat a diet of cat food or any other extruded, pelleted diet.

There are no short cuts to good nutrition.

#226578 - 02/28/07 11:47 PM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
My concern with the high quality cat foods here in the states, which is why I asked both moorie and someone else what they feed directly or what would be considered a high quality cat food..

When the issues with the lumpy jaw.. only a term used because their entire side of their face and jaw swell.. was notorious at one point due to a bacterial problem, the gliders at the time all that were being questioned, fed either cat food or briskys.. this is not not only linked directly to only those foods.. but that was a different time, what we found is that the Iams rendering plant used... ooops or shall I say USES euthenized animals from vets offices, as well as road kill, in the rendering processes, the diseases that the animals had as well as any meds they were on, as well as being thrown in with their flea collars and tags, and collars on.. and the animal testing they were doing on the animals.. was brought out into the public light along with several other companies.. Peta was heavily involved and had to take a compromise, due to some of the changes that were tried and failed.

to make a long story short, several complaints were filed with some of the majors states, FL is an example of this, some have tried to alleviate the problem, but still haven't come up with a workable solution to the disposal of the animals. and since the animal feed is so loosely regulated there isn't too much anyone can do, but educate themselves on it.

do a search on google, yaho etc.. your pick..
type in iams rendering plant euthanized animals

you will see what is being said about them,

then do a search for rendering plants cat food euthanized animals. you will be shocked at how many high quality cat food companies here in the states are listed.

mind you these are my main concerns,, always has been , always will be regarding catfood, for cats or our gliders.

the labels won't tell you what is really in them.. funny thing I found out was.. that is why they say "not less than x amt of protein.. because depending on the animal, the by products will have a different protein count.

I don't care myself, as long as the gliders are healthy..

sadly most of the gliders here in the states that are fed cat food, are not as healthy as you alls'.. now why is that? could it be the brand? could it be they are feeding too much cat food, and not having a solid balance? could it be they are not offering the fluids that they need?

I personally would love to see some forward advancements in the diet and medical areas for the next generation. at least so that they have viable choices, that work.

briskys obviously fixed their problem, long story won't go into detail... but show me where iams and other companies finally fixed their problems and maintain those changes.
Baybe,My Roots




Sugar Glider Genetic Project


#226591 - 03/01/07 12:11 AM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: Bourbon]

I think I just threw up a little when I read that. I've got pictures of me as a little baby with a mouth and two hands full of cat food that I had attacked when mom was out of the room. Seriously, I know that animals are used in the production, but I thought they were farmed for the purpose. Call me naive, but I never considered that they might use euthanized pets or road kill!

#226600 - 03/01/07 01:10 AM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

Euthanized pets and their collars, etc being used in pet food is a MYTH. Its pushed on by people with an agenda. Mainly by PETA, a book (which had no scientific citations with it!) and by some pet food companies who use this as a marketing point.

In 2002 Center for Veterinary Medicine did research for the FDA on pentobarbital in dog food. (pentobarbital is one of the main euth agents used and the only one that does not fully degrade upon rendering). It was found in several samples and is what all those sites claiming euthed pets are used in pet food are based upon. The FDA & CVM determined what level pentobarbital would still have zero effect on animals due to how it is metabolized and the HIGHEST amount that was found in dog food was significantly less (over 4 times less) than the determined "zero effect".

And here is the kicker and what blows the "Euthed pets are used in pet foods" myth out of the water. They tested all of those foods that contained pentobarbital for cat and dog DNA. NONE - nadda, zip, zero - was found. Now some of the sites will say the DNA was destroyed (with NO scientific fact to back up the statement), but this is not the case and there was only a 0.005% error on the tested they used to conduct this. However, one common thing among the foods that tested positive was Beef Tallow. They also think rendered horses may contribute to it.

BTW - there ARE pet food regulations and specific guidelines on what the ingredients must read. If the label says something specific like "poultry meal" or "chicken" or "lamb meal" or anything like that, then the only meat contained in that pet food HAS to be from the specific animals listed. Its when the label reads "meat" that you have no idea where the protein source is coming from and this is typically in your lower quality foods.

BTW - I was reading archives here a while back and it looks like this cat food debate has come up several times before and it was mentioned in a couple of these threads that "lumpy jaw" caused from cat food is not the full truth. It was stated that a prominant member on this forum use to feed cat food when she traveled and everytime her glider would come up with an abcess or what they started to term "lumpy jaw." It turned out the glider had a bad tooth that needed to be pulled but the full story was not shared at the time and thus was the beginning of the "cat food causes lumpy jaw" myth. I'm not sure how true this story is but I found it a couple times in the archives of this very forum and none of the times it was brought up was it refuted.

#226615 - 03/01/07 03:26 AM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

Thank you Cosmo. smile

PETA are known to be terrorists, they're classed as terrorists, they kill and threaten people who are involved in the animal experimentation world! They make things sound alot worse that they actually are! They're about impact, they'll say humans are in pet food if they thought they could get away with it!!! Oh BTW, did you know one of the top people in the PETA organisation has diabetes, and despite being so against animal experimentation STILL takes her insulin? Hmmmmm, hypocrite springs to mind! Anyway, that's a whole different story!

Also - in the UK, the link you sent me Bourbon doesn't really apply, we do have regulations over here, euthanised pets are incinerated and road kill is collected by the road sweeper. For example, recently all horses over here have had to have a 'passport' not to travel abroad with, but so they can monitor the use of drugs especially if that animal is to be used for human or animal consumption. There was a case recently where a few sheep in a flock were violated shall we say (yes it does happen!) the whole flock was ordered to be destroyed and incinerated, ordered by trading standards (!!!), he couldn't sell them to a pet food company instead, they had to be removed from the food chain completely!!! The farmer was not happy.

I'm personally against animal testing too, yet I choose to use Iams because as far as I'm concerned it is the best one I've found, there's no 'extras' which is the way I like it. I can add the extras if I wanted to, but if it's in the cat food then I don't get a choice. Also, people use cosmetics, deodarants, shampoo's, medications etc all of which are tested on animals - I don't! I suffer my depression and painful back because I can choose to avoid animal experimentation for myself, my animals on the other hand come first, if I have to go against my principles for the sake of the health of my animals I will.

Just as a point of interest, you may want to look here PETA

Edited by moorie999 (03/01/07 03:49 AM)

#226682 - 03/01/07 09:34 AM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

It may not be a pretty thought for pet lovers, but many of the animals that are euthanized in shelters are sold to rendering plants. That does not mean that they are in your pet food. They are likely to be in your fertilizer. And might be in cattle or chicken food.

"Byproducts" is not the same as "chicken meal" or "lamb meal" or "fish meal".

Moorie is right about PETA, a terrorist organization that would kill all of our gliders because they believe that animals should not be kept in captivity.

And Cosmo is also correct also. There are unscrupulous rendering plants and unscrupulous "food" producers. The specialty food makers are careful as to what companies process their ingredients and most of their ingredients are human grade. That's what makes them $8 or $10 for a small bag.

Wellness, Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance, Paul Newman's Organic, and other premium brands are a viable food.

#226696 - 03/01/07 10:10 AM Re: Caroline MacPherson's Diet Plan [Re: ]

I wonder what PETA did with the bodies of the 14,400 animals they had destroyed. frown


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