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#227608 - 03/03/07 02:22 AM I don't know what else to do...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey everyone, I got my babies about 2 weeks ago. They're approximately 12 weeks OOP. I've already brought the littlest one Rowyn to the vet once for dehydration. Tonight was the second time...

I brought my little Rowyn to an emergency vet tonight and I don't know if I'm more hurt or mad. I need everyones help at least until tomorrow when I can bring her to her vet. (I hope to god she makes it...)

I noticed tonight that she was severely dehydrated again. So I packed her up and brought her to this emergency vet. I couldn't have been more disappointed in my life. The vet did do sub-Q fluids, but nothing more. She gave me these antibiotics that I'm supposed to give her (Sulfa-Trim Susp. 0.01 ml. orally every 12 hours). I tried HANDING her over emergency numbers for her to call since she said she had no idea about sugar gliders, tried giving her a sheet that I printed off this website for "gliders in crisis", and she wouldn't take anything. She told me to separate her from Reagan for the night and bring a stool sample in the morning.

My question is this...Is there anything I can do until the morning?? I tried almost everything. She's been sleeping all night, she's still dehydrated, and won't take anything. Her ears are drooped now, which they weren't before. Does anyone know the step by step procedure for "forcing fluid"? I tried and I don't want to hurt her, or have to aspirate her. She took a little chicken baby food mixed with pedialyte but that was it. I don't want her to pass on without knowing that I've tried everything. I'm keeping her warm (she's a bra baby) I just don't know what else to try to do

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#227609 - 03/03/07 03:22 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
First, keep her ON YOU and keep her warm-ill gliders have a hard time regulating their body temp, esp. when very young, and when dehydrated. You will need to provide that.

If you give her the meds, be advised that any urinalysis or fecals run in the am will be worthless, as the antibiotic will throw off the testing.

Push fluids, and try and hand feed. Pedialyte 50/50 with water is best, or juice or watery gliderade if she'll drink that on her own. If she refuses to drink...did the vet give you a syringe with the meds (for oral administration)? If so, you can put about a half cc down her every hour or so of juice or pedialye to help keep her hydrated until you can get in.

You may need to stay up with her all night. I can sit on my hands with a glider in a pouch in my jacket, and nap for short periods sitting up, but I know some can't (and it took practice).

For now, that's all I can think of, except if you feed Darcy's diet by any chance DO NOT give Ensure to a dehydrated glider-they can vomit and it comes up claylike due to the water being pulled out by their body-and they can choke on it.

Please keep us updated, and let us know if there's anything else we can offer. hug2
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#227610 - 03/03/07 03:24 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: Xfilefan]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
For fluids-see the sticky post above for syringe feeding meds-it's the same thing. Just go slow, and be careful she doesn't inhale it.

I should add:
When the vet sees her, they need to run urinalysis and fecal float AND smear to look for infections (ANY vet can do these). Sub-q if still dehydrated. Poss. Xray to check for HLP (hind leg paralysis or metabolic bone disease...aka calcium deficiency)


Edited by Xfilefan (03/03/07 03:45 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#227634 - 03/03/07 08:35 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you SO much! I FINALLY got ahold of my vet, and I'm bringing both of them in for testing. Let me tell you...staying up all night sounds a lot easier in theory than it actually is. I'll update when I get home. You really helped me A LOT. I was in tears trying to help her and not knowing what else to do. Once again thank you so much Xfilefan! The Emergency vet didn't do a fecal because she said she didn't know how to do it on an animal so small.

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#227642 - 03/03/07 09:32 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Originally Posted By: Megan_221
The Emergency vet didn't do a fecal because she said she didn't know how to do it on an animal so small.


running a glider fecal is the same as any other fecal, just with a smaller size sample..
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#227658 - 03/03/07 10:21 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: BeckiT]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I'm so glad that your regular vet can see them today. Please give us an update after you get back again.
hug2
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#227758 - 03/03/07 01:19 PM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think there needs to be more mention of this problem: vets giving you antibiodics and then telling you to come later for samples. I think this is a red flag - isn't this something basic as far as vet education goes?? hmmm...

:hugs: good luck, can't wait to hear an update!!

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#227792 - 03/03/07 02:42 PM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


probably the reason that they did that, is because the glider may be too dehydrated to give a sample. I have seen that many many times with other types of animals, although I do agree that the antibiotics should have been held off until a sample could be analyzed.

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#227998 - 03/03/07 11:18 PM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks everyone! I did hold off on the antibiotics because I knew that it would mess up the fecal. I don't know how she was before the first sub-q fluid injection, but I know that the vet didn't even try. She didn't really do anything except the fluids. I was holding her through the whole thing. She is going to the bathroom now. It's still VERY runny, but my vet said that it's a good sign that fluids are going in and coming out, just to be careful and watch her. So I'm supposed to give her the antibiotics that the other vet gave me on Friday. I've been offering the 50/50 pedialyte, water, watered down BML, watered down chicken baby food. I just don't know what else to do.

I've been watching her weight closely to make sure she hasn't lost anymore weight and so far she's maintaining a steady weight. I've had her in my bra for most of the time and the only time she's not there is when I slept a little bit (I'm not as practiced as you are Xfile...I'm afraid I'll hurt her lol). I had her in a travel carrier on my bed with her pouch, pillows all around it, and a fleece blanket covering 3 sides. Not to mention like a million blankies. I have a space heater in my room and needless to say we were all a little toasty. When I didn't have her in my bra my mom did (she's official surrogate mommy since I have to work weekends and can't get out of it at all). I think I had separation anxiety from not having her.

As far as the Emergency vet...I only saw her for approximately 10 minutes tops. She was afraid of Rowyn. At one point she told me to "let nature take it's course. Something could be wrong with her that isn't fixable". I am not a hostile person by nature, but I just wanted to punch her in the face. That's what you call real bedside manner right there huh? I've never been so angry in my life. It did make me feel better though when Rowyn crabbed at her and she screamed. The only thing I can be thankful for is her doing the sub-q fluids. That is one "emergency vet" that I won't ever be going to again.


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#228063 - 03/04/07 07:08 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Awww... what a time of it you've had shakehead At least you know that you did the right thing & got her to a vet (even if the vet was inexperienced and had a lousy bedside manner) to get her the sub-q's so she survived long enough to get to your regular vet. You've done great! Please continue to keep us posted on Rowyn's progress...
hug2
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#228070 - 03/04/07 08:22 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree that you have really done great! There is nothing an experienced glider owner could have done differently than what you've done. thumb Although the e-vet you found didn't do much, they did do absolutely the most important thing, which was the subQ.

I look forward to hearing an update after you see your regular vet for fecals and urinalysis. Hopefully they will give you something for possible parasites, whether or not they show up in the fecal. Metronidazole is what I've been given in the past and it worked well, but there are other possibilities that your vet may prefer.

Hang in there and hopefully your baby will be all better very soon. hug2


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#228490 - 03/05/07 12:27 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Megan, you're doing just fine!

IF the poops don't look normal in another 24 hours, do as Peeper suggested, and have the vet treat for possible parasites (ie-giardia, trichomonads, etc.) with metronidazole for 14 days, in addition to the antibiotics.

In the meantime, you can help slow it down by giving a MAXIMUM of 3 to 4 SINGLE flakes of regular quaker oats (not the quick cook or instant kind) in a 24 hour period. Dried fruit may also help (make sure it's not too hard or sharp edged). The reason for so few flakes (oatmeal) is because it swells in the intestines, and more could swell too much and cause a blockage, as could the instant or quick cooking. It really does help though. It may not stop it, but it should slow it down a bit.

Keep us updated. hug2
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#228515 - 03/05/07 03:24 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks once again everyone! She's still in rough shape, but she's active at times and she's been eating and drinking (not on her own). I've put her food/drink in little eye droppers and I offer it to her that way. Here's my question Peepers...would 3-4 flakes be too much for her? She only weighs 26 grams. She's still not cleaning herself properly. I'll be talking to my vet in the AM, so I'll definitely talk to her about Metronidazole. I read up a little bit about it, and even if she doesn't have parasites it's also used for diarrhea!!!!! Thank god! I can't tell you how much all the support I've gotten is helping me stay sane. I just looked up the sulfatrim...yea the side effects are diarrhea, loss of appetite, and vomiting just to name a few. This is just crazy...I will NEVER go to that e-vet again. I understand that not every vet knows about every animal out there and I don't expect them to. I just wish that she would have listened and got on the phone with someone to LEARN the right way of treating her.

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#228563 - 03/05/07 09:54 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes! At 26 grams, 3-4 flakes would definitely be too much (Jen was talking about in an adult, I believe) especially all at once. Even in 24 hours, I don't think I'd give one that small more than one flake, but it does help, and Piper loved her oatmeal flakes more than she does mealies.

I'm not a breeder, but I believe 26 grams is VERY small for 12 weeks OOP! I think Piper was about 60 grams when I got her at 9 wks OOP, and now as an almost-adult (8 months OOP) she's a little on the small side at about 78 grams. Are you sure about that weight?

I'll be watching for an update after you see the vet. Good luck!



Edited by PeeperKeeper (03/05/07 09:58 AM)

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#228595 - 03/05/07 11:09 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
At a more average weight, 3 wouldn't hurt if spread out through the day (and will help retain water). Most gliders 12 weeks and older should be able to handle it, but if that's an accurate weight (very, very small glider), then Sundra's right-1 flake about every 18-20 hours. I would wonder if she isn't underage as well if that small-there's a broker here that will sell at 4 weeks OOP. Occasionally, a breeder will include the IN Pouch time with the age, and then you end up with a baby that should have spent several more weeks with mom and dad. Hopefully that's not the case.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#229091 - 03/06/07 03:08 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I was having problems getting on here ALL day! (Probably just my computer) anyway I found out she has a bacterial infection, and I go in the AM to get antibiotics and such. To be honest I starting thinking the same thing about her beiong younger than 12 weeks. From being sick she lost a DRAMATIC amount of weight, but she was always smaller than Reagan. Her tail was fluffy when I got her, just not as fluffy as Reagan's. I got them locally from a breeder in Poughkeepsie, NY. I asked him how he aged them, and he told me from the day they become OOP, so I don't know. I hope that's not the case though.

She's still eating, just not a lot. I was going to do the oatmeal, but I decided since I've been awake with her pretty much all night, since I found out she was sick, and she's on a feeding/drinking schedule of about every 1/2 hour it would probably be better to just feed her that way especially when she is so tiny. She now refuses to eat the BML so I found little chicken sticks for toddlers, took the skins off and I've been feeding her those as well as everything else I've been offering her.

As for the weight...I wish I wasn't so sure. She not only got weighed at the vets on Friday and Saturday, but I've also been weighing her at home with a postage scale. I just don't know what else to do. Although she's not losing weight, she hasn't gained ANY weight. She's a little fighter. I just hope she doesn't give up...

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#229093 - 03/06/07 03:44 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
I just sent you a PM. smile
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#229094 - 03/06/07 03:49 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: SugarBlossoms]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Make sure those chicken sticks do not have onion or garlic powder. Those kind are toxic to suggies over time.
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#229095 - 03/06/07 04:17 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: SugarBlossoms]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
More PM's sent smile Give her fluids the same way as the meds if she won't drink. She will have to be Sub Q'd though if you can't get the liquids in her. Suggies go down quick if they get dehydrated. The Pedialyte will keep her hydrated but you have to keep it in her. smile
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#229816 - 03/07/07 01:18 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: SugarBlossoms]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
How's the baby doing?
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#230522 - 03/07/07 11:21 PM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Anonymous
Unregistered


She's doing slightly better. The vet gave her Metronidazole once a day for 7 days, as well as another antibiotic. He also told me to do whatever I can to get her to gain weight (thanks again SugarBlossoms for the formula recipe), and once she's gained weight he wants her overnight so he can run tests and x-rays.

On top of her having a bacterial infection, he now thinks she may either have a birth defect of the heart or liver, or she was taken away from her mom when she was too young. Something about when he listened to her heart it sounded "off". She is no longer dehydrated though, so I guess that's a small step into the right direction.

The vet told me to prepare myself for worst case scenario. It's so hard though. I get my hopes up SO high sometimes. Like last night she was crawling around and I was moving my hands so she could jump to the one higher up. She turned and gave me a face hug. It may not have been intentional, but to me it was a face hug all the same...

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#230540 - 03/08/07 12:58 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3058
Loc: u.s.a.
if she is eating and getting better i would not have more tests run. if it is the heart there is nothing you can do anyway. for bacterial have a urine culture and sensitivity done and a fecal float with a cytology as for other tests i would not do them they are too stressful on a glider and the stress can kill her. as long as she is improving and she is on meds for the bacteria which the urine culture will tell u the right med for the bacteria she has. thats all you need. and especially since she is no longer dehydrated thats a good sign.

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#230634 - 03/08/07 09:04 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: the gliders angel]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Don't know if this will help relieve some stress a little... I had a chihuahua with congestive heart failure, so I did LOTS of research on the heart. One of the things I found is that bacterial issues can directly effect the heart muscle. And in a joey this young, this may be the cause of the heart not sounding right. It's a possibility that things may go back to normal after the infection has been cleared up and the heart can repair itself. Not to negate the possibility of a heart issue... but it might not be as bad as it sounds.

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#230636 - 03/08/07 09:08 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4212
Loc: Garland, TX
Oh Megan - my thoughts and prayers are with you and your baby! How scary. Hopefully Morrighann is right and all will work out in the end. But remember, you have made her life better and happier than it would have been already! Good luck.
_________________________
Molly, son & husband:

Chairman Meow
Oscar & Thomas
Sam, Diego, Delilah, Delia :wfb:
Nevada, Noel
Marcel, Dakota, Latte
Dexter, Didi, Almond, Joy and Fitz
:grey:
Karl,Lenny,Jynxie,Chamille, Kee & Mr. Beans in my heart forever.
Teaching teenagers-part joy, part guerilla warfare! :rbridge:

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#231189 - 03/09/07 12:00 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: Mel2mdl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just an update...Rowyn crossed the rainbow bridge this afternoon at 12:30. I just keep trying to tell myself that I did everything in my power to keep her healthy and happy in her last days. She put a good fight in, and now she's at peace. Thank you everyone that helped me through this!!

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#231207 - 03/09/07 01:26 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
TracieB Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 4338
Loc: Lenexa, KS
Oh Megan, I'm so sorry. cry I know you did everything for her that could be done, and I'm sure she knew it too. Most of all you gave her your love and that had to be a great comfort to her to know you were there. Sending lots of hug2 hug2 your way, and prayers for strength and comfort.
_________________________
Tracie
1 wonderful husband - Chris
1 goofy Yorkie - Dexter
2 naughty kitties - Chloe & Alek

Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge:
1 spoiled Yorkie, Myles - April 5, 1993-June 5, 2007
1 sweet :wfb: Xavier - August 5, 2007-May 20, 2010
2 sweet :grey: :grey: Nara & Alkina - February, 2006-November, 2011





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#231208 - 03/09/07 01:27 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Oh no. frown I am so so very sorry to hear this! Yes, you did everything possible for her and she knows how much you love her. HUGS

I am at a loss for words right now. I'm so very sorry.
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#231214 - 03/09/07 02:18 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: SugarBlossoms]
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1732
Loc: Utah
I am so sorry to hear this You did do everything you could for her and with the possibility of other health problems the best thing you could have done is let her know you loved her and were there for her. I'm sure she knew how hard you tried and she will be waiting to give you a face hug again soon.

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#231293 - 03/09/07 08:32 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: silverwolf]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
I'm so sorry to hear you lost Rowyn Megan!! hug2 s headed to you!

*Moving this over to Real Stories now
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#231376 - 03/09/07 11:08 AM Re: I don't know what else to do... [Re: BeckiT]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think you should focus on the sentiment that her life was as good as it could have been. How sad would it have been for you two to have never found eachother, or if she had lived her short life where she was not loved or cared for. Her life was short through no fault of your own, but it was a good one smile :hugs:

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