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#22996 - 06/26/04 06:11 AM Enlarged liver
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi everyone, it has been a long time since I posted. My work has been very busy and no time for the computer.
My little guy Percy has lost alot of weight. Took him to the vet and he has nothing in his urine or stool. So the next day took him back and the xrayed him and the only thing we could see was his liver was inlarged. If anyone has a phone number to a experianced glider vet I would be greatful. My vet is great but is still learning with these little guys. I am very worried. He will eat some but not veggies other then corn.He is very sweet. When I got him he had to have his hand amputated. I rescuded him from a store in Zefferhills.
Thanks in advance for any help.

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#22997 - 06/26/04 10:12 AM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Kellie, My vet once made up a milk thistle preparation for one of my gliders who clearly had liver problems (she was jaundiced, a clear sign of liver problems). Her words were, "It won't hurt and may help." It turned out that there were several things that led to her death, though the liver problem was the most obvious. She did live for over a year after becoming jaundiced, however. Maybe the milk thistle helped? I don't know. I wouldn't just use an over-the-counter preparation, though -- it should come from your vet.

This is one of those areas where we don't know enough. There are lots of different kinds of liver problems, and treatment (in humans and other mammals) varies according to the type of liver damage that has occured. THe type of damage can be determined by x-rays, by ultrasound, by blood tests, and by biopsy. Most of those are too intrusive to use on your little guy at this point. So you probably can't know what type of damage your glider has suffered.

Medications and treatment that work for humans are very strong, and to my knowledge haven't been used on gliders.

Given that, I think one thing you CAN do is provide him with dietary help. I do know that a good diet is very important in maintaining the liver health that remains. Gliders can live with liver problems, though any major illness in a glider probably somewhat affects life expectancy.

If I remember, you're feeing BML, and I would definitely continue that, but would cut out other protein, since the liver has to work hard to process protein.

I know how worried you must be, and how helpless it can feel to not know what will help. I'll email you my vet's information, in case your vet would like to talk to her.

And I'll be praying for your little Percy.
_________________________


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#22998 - 06/26/04 11:43 AM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you Lucy. I have him sepperated from the group. My guys wouldnt eat the bml so I have them on protien veggies and fruit. With the vit. and calcium I and to the food everyday. I tried the bml every way you could think and they refused. They have been eating this diet for 2 and a half yrs. I am going to get pedialite today. He ate some yogurt for me a little while ago. His head is starting to get the shakes every someany seconds. I pray he will be ok. They did xray him and it showed it was large.
Thanks I got the email.

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#22999 - 06/26/04 02:27 PM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Kellie I certainly wish precious <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> little man "Percy" the very best!
I might also try offerring him different Kern's Nectars & a <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> product I have used for several years (a bit pricey) to help him get his weight up a little (maybe)

"Nekton Sugar Glider" this is NOT Nekton Lori! It is sent to me from FL.
Nekton Sugar Glider

Nekton Nutrition

(Is it possible to get Percy a friend for a little bit of company in his cage?)

Lucy
For several years now I have been using a special Milk Thistle seed perscription designed by a good friend of F. Frye, I took this info to my Exotic veterinarians,& they agreed - I use this every other day for my <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s.
With the Aflatoxin's issues - you probably know I do not feed insects - I will continue with this perscription until more information is learned!


Edited by Pockets (06/26/04 02:35 PM)

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#23000 - 06/26/04 03:18 PM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Kellie,

If it were me, I wouldn't separate him, and I'm not sure I would change his diet much right now -- I'm afraid the stress of doing that would be worse, until he's healthier. You might offer BML (maybe sweetened with nectar or yogurt?) and see if he'll eat that -- if he's too weak, try feeding it with droppers. But I wouldn't make drastic changes right now, unless it's proven that he's infectious.

Pockets had a good idea -- the supplemented nectar might be a good thing, esp. where weight gain is one of the goals.

When you say he's shaking his head, do you mean it's bobbing up and down?
_________________________


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#23001 - 06/26/04 07:38 PM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
I know when my Sassy lost a lot of weight (due to his teeth) I started feeding him his BML and some baby food with a syringe. It's not the easiest thing to do, but since I started Sass has gained nearly 10 grams and has gotten alot more energy.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
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#23002 - 06/26/04 11:03 PM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


This maybe should be a new thread, but I'd be interested in hearing more about milk thistle preparations. When Ozzy got sick I got out all my nutrition books and as a result have been giving him extremely diluted milk thistle extract. I have no way of knowing if its doing any good, but I'd like to know more about dosage, where I can get a formulation designed for gliders, etc.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" />
Lynn

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#23003 - 06/28/04 05:31 AM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am happy to report he is eating and has more energy. I did put him back with the others and it was hard for him at first but last night he was running in the wheele and eating. Even bluberries. My heart is so happy. Thanks for all the help. I am looking into the necton. I havent found it local yet so I will order it on line.
Thanks again
Kellie

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#23004 - 06/28/04 07:00 AM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Kellie, good luck, I'm glad to hear Percy seems a bit better. Hopefully he will continue to improve. I know there has been a LOT of success with the herptivite vitamins, they seem to help the liver a lot. You might consider using it, if you aren't already!
Chey

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#23005 - 06/28/04 08:01 AM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Critter Creations Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 3398
Loc: Rock Falls, IL, USA
The herptivite is used in the BML diet and my vet has seen proof that it helps regenerate the liver in a necropsy of one of my females. She had bad liver damage from her previous diet at the pet store and when she died I had a necropsy done and the vet saw the liver damage, but he also saw some that he felt had regenerated. She died of pneumonia. So I really think that stuff works wonders on their livers. So i would highly recommend either using the BML diet with it in it or using the herptivite in the right amounts. I am also happy to see he is doing so much better and is back with the other gliders. I bet he is much happier that way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics


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#23006 - 06/28/04 09:56 AM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
one thing I am concerned about is the basis behind the liver damage, of course no proof on this one, one change I would definitly make in the diet is the crickets, I would eliminate those as a precaution.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#23007 - 06/28/04 11:36 AM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Kellie email reply sent back to you

I believe Nekton Sugar Glider has to be ordered directly thru them (FL) - So wonderful to hear Percy's eating & playing!
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#23008 - 06/28/04 06:24 PM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi guys, I am using the herpative. my guys wont eat the bml. I give them the vit. calcium in there juice every night. I have been feeding it that way for 2 and a half years. So far so good. I am going to try the modified bml to see if they will eat that. The one with sweet patatos in it.
I tried the diet from Viva la glider and they wont eat that either. If you have something that you think a very picky group will eat please let me know. I only want the best for them.
He personaly likes the mealworms. I have one glider who refuses meal worms do she gets crickets. But percy will eat the meallies instead.
Thanks Kellie


Edited by Kellie (06/28/04 06:28 PM)

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#23009 - 06/28/04 08:48 PM Re: Enlarged liver [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hepatomegaly (enlarged liver) can have many many causes, not just diet related. There could be some sort of toxin in the surroundings, hepatitis, cancer, fructose intolerance, and some genetic diseases.

I'm not sure how you could determine the cause in your glider but it might be a good idea to find a vet that knows about gliders, AND that knows about liver problems. There are many liver fuction tests that can be done, and I think your vet might be able to start by taking fecal, urine and blood samples to be tested. I'm no expert but I do know bilirubin levels is one of the things that they should test for.

I don't know whether to suggest seperating him- there's no way for you to know right now whether he is contagious, but at the same time seperating him might cause him enough stress to make him sicker. But I would strongly recommend working with your vet to find specifically what is causing this.

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