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#234370 - 03/13/07 11:06 PM HLP - how long does it take to overcome?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have a glider that the vet suspects HLP. He was given sub q fluids, calcium and a glucose boost today but no signs of improvement. He is shaking so hard he can hardly get food from the syringe and fluids are a struggle. I have calcium syrup to give him twice a day but I didn't know how long I should expect to wait before I see signs of improvement. The vet expected to have already seen some improvement but really didn't have an answer for me. I thought someone here could help.

Thanks

Kim

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#234384 - 03/13/07 11:38 PM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Honey, HLP can be a long road. Let me go find some info for you, I'll be right back...

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#234391 - 03/13/07 11:49 PM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here is a thread about a glider in a rescue home that is currently fighting HLP - he has only been treating for a week, so maybe watching him progress & watching what Angie & her vets are doing will help you with your baby's treatment:

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=23264

Aside from contacting AngieH, I would also contact Mary & Charlie Holcombe. They run a glider rescue in Texas & have sadly had a lot of experience with HLP, they should be able to give you some good advice. Here is a link to their site that has an email addy & a phone #:

http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/main.html

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#234424 - 03/14/07 12:37 AM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Like Gina said, HLP can be a long road.

The shaking is caused by the muscles no longer being able to receive signals from the brain properly-calcium helps to transmit those electrical signals, and so when the glider tries to move, the signals are interrupted, resulting in shaking. It can be severe enough that all they can do is splash their face in a dish when trying to eat or drink-I went through it with Riker. HLP to this extreme can kill. Also, did the vet give an antibiotic just in case a bacterial infection or parasite is the underlying cause? If not, I'd have them prescribe for that. Here's how we took care of Riker-

1. Abandon letting him feed himself. It may be several days until he can, and he won't be getting much on his own. It's very important that he get that nutrition though, or he can rapidly get worse. At this stage-hand feed, by syringe. You might have to force feed. If so, do it. It may be all that will bring him back. With Riker, I put babyfood fruits/veggies, diluted BML, water and Gliderade with an extra pinch of calcium down him by syringe. Alternated foods every 1-2 hours with a drink. Fruits/water one time. Veggies/gliderade the next feeding. BML/water the one after. Meds as scheduled. Until such time as he can eat on his own. I had to do this with Riker around the clock for 3 weeks before he started to come out of it. Holding them will also help control the shaking so they can eat-if they still can't (or won't)is when you force it.

2. He will have trouble regulating his body temp, and cold is a sick glider's enemy. Keep him on you as much as possible to provide body heat for him. In his cage, make sure the room is at 75 degrees, no drafts, and lots of blankies to keep him warm.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#234772 - 03/14/07 05:37 PM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well just to update...Max is no better or worse. Still feeding/hydrating him every 2 hours and keeping him in a pet carrier. He is flailing so much I am afraid he will fall in his big cage. I know this is stressful on him and can't be good but neither can a fall. I have such a good husband. He is off on vacation this week and is helping with the 2 hour regimen. He even took 2 bites for me!! Everything I have read leads me to believe it to be HLP but i also think it is environmental since my last 2 did the same thing. We ar going over the house with a fine tooth comb to figure it out. Thanks for all the tips.

Kim

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#234860 - 03/14/07 08:02 PM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Im so sorry to hear about your baby, good luck!

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#234911 - 03/14/07 09:10 PM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Since you've seen this before, maybe it's diet related. What have you been feeding?

Or maybe genetic? Are your gliders related?

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#234997 - 03/14/07 11:35 PM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


He is on the diet his owner was giving him but he was with a cage mate and I am afraid the stress of being alone started all this. He is not related to the other 2 I lost.I am going to ask the vet for some baytril tomorrow and see if that helps. Can't hurt. He has settled down for the night. But he won't get in the pouch so I have lots of fleece for him to bury in.

More updates tomorrow.

Kim

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#234998 - 03/14/07 11:35 PM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


He is on the diet his owner was giving him but he was with a cage mate and I am afraid the stress of being alone started all this. He is not related to the other 2 I lost.I am going to ask the vet for some baytril tomorrow and see if that helps. Can't hurt. He has settled down for the night. But he won't get in the pouch so I have lots of fleece for him to bury in.

More updates tomorrow.

Kim

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#234999 - 03/14/07 11:35 PM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


sorry he is on the BML diet.

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#235052 - 03/15/07 01:15 AM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


By the sound of your post, I take it you haven't had him very long. How old is he? Have you had a chance to contact Angie or the Holcombes yet? I know they can help you and Max!

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#235067 - 03/15/07 01:41 AM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
I sent you a PM, if you hve been feeding the bml, it is almost impossible for this to be hlp in the genral sense, as Jen stated it is a very good chance that something else is underlying that needs to be addressed asap.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#235093 - 03/15/07 04:05 AM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: Bourbon]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I was wondering if you guys can help us figure out something. I spoke with Kim yesterday and I really feel like this has got to be some type of environmental reaction. Kim bought Max off of me about 2 weeks ago. He is getting close to 2 years old and has been on the BML diet all his life. Were trying to put our heads together to see what might could cause these signs. She has been following the BML plan to a tee, she uses bottled water for his drinking source, The only thing I was wondering about is he is in a wooden cage. It is made of oak and has 5 layers of polyurethane to protect the wood. If I'm not mistaken, I think Kim said she wipes down the cage nightly with lysol wipes? Could any of these bring on any kind of seizuring activity? She said she does not use any kind of air freshener around him. He has not chewed any of his cage. My vet said she feels like there has to be some kind of chemical that set this off but we can't figure out where it would be coming from. Kim is a very nice lady and I could tell that she is going to be an excellent glider mom. I just hate that this is happening to her again. If anybody has any ideas Please help..

Thanks,
Trina

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#235161 - 03/15/07 08:45 AM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
My Pika and Cricky both suffered from neurological damage late last year (ultimately, it killed both of them). The vet speculated that it may have been from the presence of cats in the home (toxoplasmosis). Do you know if Kim has any cats? If so, how close is the cage to the litter box, even if in a different room?
I also wonder about using the Lysol wipes at night when it is close to time for the gliders to wake up for the night... could the chemicals not be completely dry & dissipated before the glider wakes up? If not, the glider could ingest the chemicals and possibly receive toxins from them... I'm just trying to come up with possibilities for her dunno
~~~~~~~~~~~~
On a different note, when my Pika came down with HLP in November of '05, it was because she was eating too much protein (this was before I switched her to BML) and not enough of the other foods offered. I'm wondering if the glider is getting too many mealworms or other insects? When too much protein is in the diet, then the calcium is inhibited from being absorbed into the bones where it's needed - it stays in the bloodstream and bloodtests will reveal elevated levels of calcium, but it's not getting to the bones where needed.
Again, just trying to give a different possibility for what may be causing the HLP.
Please keep us updated.
hug2
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#235541 - 03/15/07 08:05 PM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Anonymous
Unregistered


No cats in the home. Pretty plain jane around here. We do have one dog and she doesn't like any other animals or babies. She tends to hide when Max is out of the pouch. She hides under the bed when the newborn grandson is here visiting. She won't even look at my fish bowl at work.

Max has slowed in the shaking department but still lethargic. Took him to the vet today and she is keeping him over night for tests. Just getting home now and hoping he makes it through the night.

Bourbon took her time today to call me personally and give me a tremendous amount of information. I shared it with my vet and they are willing to do some tests for me to see if we can head this off. She has a wealth of information should anyone need her wisdom. She truly cares for the glider breed and is willing to help anyone in trouble. Thanks to Trina (previous owner) in contacting her and doing a 3 way call with me to help figure this out. I know you were his first mommy and entrusted me with his care. I hope I don't let you down. I am working tomorrow so it will be late when i post an update.

Thanks again.

Kim

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#236327 - 03/16/07 11:26 PM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
I don't know what it is that has affected Kim's, gliders, when we spoke on the phone we went over everything from possible plants, toxins, mold etc.. I spoke with her about many many things we covered just about all bases, and I gave her many things to talk with her vet about.. he wasn't able to get any samples, whatever hit him was so advanced.. in that even with the fluids every 2 hours, he was just too dehydrated. Kim sent me a Pm, and this is what she had to say in it.. before I post it, I want to say that my heart is very heavy right now, and there is so much pain in her note to me.. I wish so bad that we had the answers, but if she does come back to rad this, I want her to know, that she did the best she could, and we all know how much she loved him. Kim my prayers are with you and your family at this time..

Quote:

Thanks for all your wisdom during my ordeal. The vet was of no help. Could not get any specimens for tests. He was just to dehydrated even though we forced fluids every 2 hours. Max passed away last night. The short time I did have with gliders was a fun and educational time. I guess I will just stick to dogs from now on. In case it was the cage we have burned it in the back yard. Sort of a memorial if you will to the 3 that lived in it and lost their lives at my hand. Thanks again for all your help. I will be removing myself from this board but will continue to guide people curious about gliders and how to care for them to this form of education. This group was and is fantastic.

Kim
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#236381 - 03/17/07 01:16 AM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: Bourbon]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh honey, I'm so sorry to hear about this! You and Max are in my thoughts. (((HUGS)))


I'm going to move this to Real Stories now...

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#236480 - 03/17/07 09:05 AM Re: HLP - how long does it take to overcome? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Kim,
Please don't blame yourself for his death. You did all that you could for him and he knew he was well-loved, even till the end of his life. May God's peace be with you...
hug2 hug2 hug2
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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